2023-24 Canadian Figure Skating

[Cutting the ice]

Well, this is incredibly disappointing. I have struggled for years to understand the attraction people have towards the Olympics and to understand its justification for existence. It can really suck the oxygen out of the room. Yes, lots of heart-warming fairy tale stories of rewards for true excellence in the moment. But too many of corruption committed for the price of those tarnished medals. And way too many of heartbreak when a truly talented athlete doesn't win a medal and then is seen as a "failure" - by their fans and of course, themselves. This story has it all.

And as I have written before, how can this sport thrive and grow when its only stories that reach the non-fan public are marred by corruption and abuse? This sport needs a major reset.

 

[ladyjane]

I am sad people are even discussing some performances are "not being worthy" of an Olympic medal.
One of the leading nations in relay swimming = USA. Many of these swimmers have never won a medal at worlds or Olympics in their own individual races (some probably have never made the finals, or even been selected to represent the USA) ... only relays (goes for swimmers from other nations too of course)... Yet, these relay swimmers have bundles of fancy medals being the weakest (but still deserving) link of their strong team. That's the whole point of a team event. Just back track 4 years, the Russian men blew it... should they not receive their silver from the team event ? Why are people focusing on Roman? It upsets me terribly. He did his best. He was not supposed to compete there. He was not ready mentally to take the heat. Give the boy a break.

Yes, I remember the event in 2018 where a Russian guy (was it Kolyada?) did not do good. Whatever you think of the ruling, that some skaters weren't worthy is ridiculous. As if all the USA skaters, or Japanese skaters did well. The team is a mix, that's why it is called a team event.

 

[rain]

So after sleeping on it, what really doesn't make sense is the total internal inconsistency of this decision. If you're going to just remove Valieva and not recalculate, then the Russians would still have the gold, because, remember, we're not recalculating. But they decided to half recalculate instead and move the teams up who have more points with Valieva's scores removed, but not recalculate the women's event and move the women up in the absence of Valieva's scores. It's absolutely the least straightforward way they could have done it.

I've seen a lot of people dissing Skate Canada for not fighting for a medal for their skaters before now, but I have to say, how do you know they weren't fighting? I actually assume they were, just quietly and behind the scenes. Anyway, I don't think Skate Canada is ultimately responsible for this any more than the lab that was delayed in running the drug test was (and isn't that some mental gymnastics, lol).

Part of me, and I imagine the skaters probably feel similarly, wants to just say forget about it and move on, since I'm sure they long ago resigned themselves to not winning a medal. But I think there's a big picture here, and that big picture is that the ISU is STILL trying to appease Russia, after everything that's happened and how totally inadequate their response to it has been. Nothing has changed internally in the Russian system. This bodes very badly for the future of skating as a whole when Russian is inevitably allowed to return to international competition. Because it's one more slap on the wrist, while the governing body once again buried its head in the sand about the larger problems.

Anyway, that's my rant for the morning.

 

[4everchan]

Skate Canada is talking to the media.

https://www.cbc.ca/player/play/2305181763995

 

[4everchan]

So after sleeping on it, what really doesn't make sense is the total internal inconsistency of this decision. If you're going to just remove Valieva and not recalculate, then the Russians would still have the gold, because, remember, we're not recalculating. But they decided to half recalculate instead and move the teams up who have more points with Valieva's scores removed, but not recalculate the women's event and move the women up in the absence of Valieva's scores. It's absolutely the least straightforward way they could have done it.

I've seen a lot of people dissing Skate Canada for not fighting for a medal for their skaters before now, but I have to say, how do you know they weren't fighting? I actually assume they were, just quietly and behind the scenes. Anyway, I don't think Skate Canada is ultimately responsible for this any more than the lab that was delayed in running the drug test was (and isn't that some mental gymnastics, lol).

Part of me, and I imagine the skaters probably feel similarly, wants to just say forget about it and move on, since I'm sure they long ago resigned themselves to not winning a medal. But I think there's a big picture here, and that big picture is that the ISU is STILL trying to appease Russia, after everything that's happened and how totally inadequate their response to it has been. Nothing has changed internally in the Russian system. This bodes very badly for the future of skating as a whole when Russian is inevitably allowed to return to international competition. Because it's one more slap on the wrist, while the governing body once again buried its head in the sand about the larger problems.

Anyway, that's my rant for the morning.

Listen to Slipchuk.
He has a very valid argument.

By not reallocating the ranking points, it means that ROC "earns two points" over everyone in the women's field. So Valieva is still contributing.

 

[RatedPG]

The men at 4CC practice with their skates. Roman will get to make his international season debut

Amazing!! Yay!!
I hope our guys skate good short programs tonight!!

 

[Cutting the ice]

Overall a cogent and surprisingly in-depth interview - particularly well communicated was how indefensible it was to not recalculate the points - and as 4everChan pointed out, actually still gave 2 credit points to Russia for the women's event. Using the European's example was good as well.

Maddie finished 2nd, not 3rd in her events - 2nd place gets 9 points according to the rules. Its a "mystery" how the ISU could rule differently (note "mystery" is Michael Slipchuk's word, not the one I would use in less polite company)

Not sure that Canada - even though 100% in the right to demand those 2 points and the bronze medal - will convince the ISU to backtrack and changes its decision. As others have speculated, ISU's motivation for giving Russia the bronze must have been an ill-advised attempt at appeasement. To do so, it broke its own rules. It deserves lots of blowback on that.

 

[RatedPG]

Listen to Slipchuk.
He has a very valid argument.

By not reallocating the ranking points, it means that ROC "earns two points" over everyone in the women's field. So Valieva is still contributing.

What a mess…. I honestly thought it was going to be less messy if they reallocated the points to give Canada bronze. It just makes common sense to reallocate the points. But, it doesn’t shock me that whoever made this decision, doesn’t even understand basic math. If they did reallocate, these three countries can receive their medals in 2026. Canada would be ecstatic with their bronze medal

But, by not doing so, they created a bigger mess. What will happen with the bronze medal? I don’t see Russia caring about any medal other than gold. So, will they have a ceremony with USA and JPN and then nobody… yikes.

I’m just going to focus on 4CC and not get too involved with this mess of a situation

 

[NanaPat]

What a mess…. I honestly thought it was going to be less messy if they reallocated the points to give Canada bronze. It just makes common sense to reallocate the points. But, it doesn’t shock me that whoever made this decision, doesn’t even understand basic math. If they did reallocate, these three countries can receive their medals in 2026. Canada would be ecstatic with their bronze medal

But, by not doing so, they created a bigger mess. What will happen with the bronze medal? I don’t see Russia caring about any medal other than gold. So, will they have a ceremony with USA and JPN and then nobody… yikes.

I’m just going to focus on 4CC and not get too involved with this mess of a situation

I think they said each country (Olympic committee or figure skating federation) was responsible for organizing the medal ceremony for their own athletes. I could see Japan and the US having a joint ceremony at Worlds (this year, if Russia's appeal is dismissed in time, but the bronze is still in limbo). I can see Japan, the US and Canada having a joint ceremony. But it Russia ultimately gets bronze, I predict individual ceremonies.

 

[4everchan]

I think they said each country (Olympic committee or figure skating federation) was responsible for organizing the medal ceremony for their own athletes. I could see Japan and the US having a joint ceremony at Worlds (this year, if Russia's appeal is dismissed in time, but the bronze is still in limbo). I can see Japan, the US and Canada having a joint ceremony. But it Russia ultimately gets bronze, I predict individual ceremonies.

Nothing will happen anytime soon unless the USA wants to celebrate their gold... but with appeals coming, usually they won't send the medals.

 

[Seven Sisters]

Nothing will happen anytime soon unless the USA wants to celebrate their gold... but with appeals coming, usually they won't send the medals.

Even so, Canada could bring all their team event members to Worlds this year and have them get up and take a collective bow at some point during the event. That could be a moment!

 

[saine]

Skate Canada is talking to the media.

https://www.cbc.ca/player/play/2305181763995

That was a good interview. I appreciated that Mike Slipchuk explained what they were doing behind the scenes. They needed to make sure that they had a good understanding of the rules and how the scenarios would play out in order to take action when the decision came out. Since they were able to get the statement citing the specific rule that wasn't followed out quickly, they did their homework.

It may not be the flashiest strategy, but if they'd advocated like Canada were the rightful bronze medalists before this it could have backfired. This way they can say that by the rules they should rightfully be awarded the bronze medals and the ISU will have to justify why the Team event was handled differently than the individual events.

 

[4everchan]

Even so, Canada could bring all their team event members to Worlds this year and have them get up and take a collective bow at some point during the event. That could be a moment!

Sure... but it's not very Canadian to do... I don't see this happening.

 

[Diana Delafield]

Sure... but it's not very Canadian to do... I don't see this happening.

Reminds me of 1971 Worlds when Dick Button had Janet Lynn, who finished 4th, stand on a box at rinkside and have a camera trained on her while Karen Magnussen was getting the bronze medal he thought Janet should have won. On television, the applause for Karen then appeared to be spontaneous applause for Janet. (To Janet's credit, she looked extremely embarrassed.)

 

[saine]

Gabriel Farand looks like he's retiring, based on this post and the comments.

 

[4everchan]

Gabriel Farand looks like he's retiring, based on this post and the comments.

noooooooo

 

[Heather T]

Gabriel Farand looks like he's retiring, based on this post and the comments.

I saw he and Fiona skating together today…. I am surprised at his post which does sound like he is retiring. I wonder what Fiona will do.

 

[Jammers]

I think they said each country (Olympic committee or figure skating federation) was responsible for organizing the medal ceremony for their own athletes. I could see Japan and the US having a joint ceremony at Worlds (this year, if Russia's appeal is dismissed in time, but the bronze is still in limbo). I can see Japan, the US and Canada having a joint ceremony. But it Russia ultimately gets bronze, I predict individual ceremonies.

I think the US team wants the ceremony to be in Paris this summer at the Olympics with the Japanese team to finally get their moment that they were all denied. Bach promised a ceremony for them and they better make sure he keeps his promise.

 

[4everchan]

I think the US team wants the ceremony to be in Paris this summer at the Olympics with the Japanese team to finally get their moment that they were all denied. Bach promised a ceremony for them and they better make sure he keeps his promise.

That's fine by me... but the IOC will not award medals if there are appeals ongoing... So they will need to hurry up if this is happening this summer in Paris.

 

[rain]

TSL just put up a great interview with Carol Lane: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9W3fv3IPeKk
I really wasn't sure how this was going to go, since Dave Lease, the interviewer, has been campaigning hard against Piper and Paul this season, but this is a great watch.