2023 Grand Prix Espoo: Ice Dance Thoughts?

[gsk8]

Chock and Bates take second consecutive Grand Prix gold

2023 Grand Prix Espoo: Ice Dance USA's Madison Chock and Evan Bates won their second consecutive Grand Prix gold in Ice Dance in Espoo, Finland, on

www.goldenskate.com

I really like Janse van Rensburg and Steffan's FD. I love tango and think they did a great job!

Bashynska and Beaumont's Romeo and Juliet routine is dreamy. I really love her dress! I often associate "blue" with this music, but their costumes are lovely. They broke the 100-point mark for the first time as seniors with this program.

I love the Finn's rotational lift in the FD. The music will have to grow on me, but I really appreciate their artistry.

I really like Soerensen's FD shirt, but not sure about Fournier Beaudry's costume. I feel like she should have one-piece dress for this music? Something more period-related? The ending choreo spin looks difficult.

Chock and Bates. Just another masterpiece. They really keep pushing the envelope. I get excited every season to see what they come up with!

What are your thoughts?

 

[rain]

Chock and Bates take second consecutive Grand Prix gold

2023 Grand Prix Espoo: Ice Dance USA's Madison Chock and Evan Bates won their second consecutive Grand Prix gold in Ice Dance in Espoo, Finland, on

www.goldenskate.com

I really like Janse van Rensburg and Steffan's FD. I love tango and think they did a great job!

Bashynska and Beaumont's Romeo and Juliet routine is dreamy. I really love her dress! I often associate "blue" with this music, but their costumes are lovely. They broke the 100-point mark for the first time as seniors with this program.

I love the Finn's rotational lift in the FD. The music will have to grow on me, but I really appreciate their artistry.

I really like Soerensen's FD shirt, but not sure about Fournier Beaudry's costume. I feel like she should have one-piece dress for this music? Something more period-related? The ending choreo spin looks difficult.

Chock and Bates. Just another masterpiece. They really keep pushing the envelope. I get excited every season to see what they come up with!

What are your thoughts?

I posted my thoughts in the free dance thread, but will post again here.

Totally agree on the first three points. I also felt in the Finn's dance that there were times when they just dropped the theme so it was sort of in and out rather than a complete whole. But definitely some interesting elements.

I wish I loved Fournier-Beaudry/Sorensen's dance more than I do. It's well skated, but none of the choreography is a "wow".

Actually disliked Chock/Bates's program this time around. It was slow, laboured, looked awkward in parts and doesn't move across the ice, but rather contains way too much posing and contortions. I would not have had them first. I thought this would be one of my favourite programs of the season, but instead I'm less impressed than first viewing and feel like it has not progressed.

Oh, and I also liked Careirra/Ponomarenko and Zingas/Kolesnik.

 

[gsk8]

Chock/Bates FD did seem labored at this event. It was much better at Skate America. I could use some polish for sure.

I like Juulia Turkkila and Matthias Versluis but am not connecting with their FD yet. They do remind me of Rahkamo and Kokko, though

 

[skylark]

Chock and Bates take second consecutive Grand Prix gold

2023 Grand Prix Espoo: Ice Dance USA's Madison Chock and Evan Bates won their second consecutive Grand Prix gold in Ice Dance in Espoo, Finland, on

www.goldenskate.com

I really like Soerensen's FD shirt, but not sure about Fournier Beaudry's costume. I feel like she should have one-piece dress for this music? Something more period-related?

That's an idea, for a period-related dress, it would help. All I could think of looking at Laurence was "ugh" and I was tired of seeing her belly button. I just feel it's inappropriate and maybe even a little show-offy.

 

[skylark]

The only free dance here that I have a desire to re-watch is Emilea Zingas and Vadym Kolesnik. They are just a joy to watch ... and they have a spark between them that is rare. Their styles match; Emilea's talent as an ice dancer is amazing and even more so being so recent and new. I love their Beauty and the Beast program ... what is ice dancing if there's not passion, emotion, and connection with the audience! Also, I could see that they've added and enhanced their program in the last few weeks, everything is more so. Well done, kids!

 

[Arriba627]

I don't follow dance too much and honestly didn't know who Zingas and Kolesnik were. . I chose a couple to watch and was glad I picked theirs. Loved their Beauty and the Beast. Mark Hanretty couldn't say enough good things about them. Igor Shpilband was so happy in the K.& C. He looked like a proud papa!

 

[4everchan]

That's an idea, for a period-related dress, it would help. All I could think of looking at Laurence was "ugh" and I was tired of seeing her belly button. I just feel it's inappropriate and maybe even a little show-offy.

Laurence and Nik have explained that they are definitely not trying to reflect the period when the musical is set. They have a contemporary approach to the whole FD. It's not the traditional Notre-Dame-de-Paris theme. I have explained it in the free dance thread if you are interested. Also, just saying but a period dress may be very difficult to mimic if skaters were to get something comfortable in which to skate.

Finally, there are so many deep v neck with men showing off their chest, if a woman has abs and wants to show them off, more power to her.

 

[moonvine]

.

Actually disliked Chock/Bates's program this time around. It was slow, laboured, looked awkward in parts and doesn't move across the ice, but rather contains way too much posing and contortions. I would not have had them first. I thought this would be one of my favourite programs of the season, but instead I'm less impressed than first viewing and feel like it has not progressed.

They're known for standing and posing. The snake dance everyone loves so much contained a ton of standing and posing.

 

[moonvine]

I don't follow dance too much and honestly didn't know who Zingas and Kolesnik were. . I chose a couple to watch and was glad I picked theirs. Loved their Beauty and the Beast. Mark Hanretty couldn't say enough good things about them. Igor Shpilband was so happy in the K.& C. He looked like a proud papa!

Z/K are amazing! I love them!

 

[skylark]

Laurence and Nik have explained that they are definitely not trying to reflect the period when the musical is set. They have a contemporary approach to the whole FD. It's not the traditional Notre-Dame-de-Paris theme. I have explained it in the free dance thread if you are interested. Also, just saying but a period dress may be very difficult to mimic if skaters were to get something comfortable in which to skate.

Good point. I remember the long, long skirt that made me nervous every time I watched them. It was distracting, and it felt dangerous, whether Nic and Lolo felt that or not.

Finally, there are so many deep v neck with men showing off their chest, if a woman has abs and wants to show them off, more power to her.

I hear you -- but I can't agree. Then again, I'm not a fan of the deep V neck for men either. I'm not a prude, I just prefer coverage.

 

[4everchan]

Good point. I remember the long, long skirt that made me nervous every time I watched them. It was distracting, and it felt dangerous, whether Nic and Lolo felt that or not.



I hear you -- but I can't agree. Then again, I'm not a fan of the deep V neck for men either. I'm not a prude, I just prefer coverage.

I prefer ice coverage

 

[elbkup]

The top scorers were all wonderful of course.. just a shout out to Nadia and Peter in their first senior season. Followed them faithfully thru Juniors
Very attractive expressive dancers with great skills. Look forward to their future

 

[throw_triple_flip]

Hmm.. not sure about either of Chock and Bates's programs. To me (like last year), their free is a set of unconnected movements. Their lifts looked a bit shaky.
I think an off Gilles and Poirier at the Cup of China were better. I also think Fear and Gibson could end up ahead of them at worlds. Sure, they ended up World champions after a shaky start last year, but they didn't look slow like that last year. Is injury an issue with them?

Orihara and Pirinen are dynamite performers and wow they have the best lifts in the competition. Turkkila and Versluis were my favourites here- while there's not an obvious sense of storytelling to the free, there was a sense of continuity and emotion/feeling to the movement throughout it. Plus it's so different from what anyone else is really doing at the moment.

I think Zingas and Kolesnik are going to exceed Carreira and Ponamarenko pretty soon. They just have the wow factor.

 

[throw_triple_flip]

The lift by Chock and Bates in the rhythym dance.. doesn't it look exactly like one that Janse Van Rensburg and Steffan had in their free dance last season? It's a very unique position in the lift. While no one owns a lift position, I find it surprising as aren't the American team known for imaginative lifts?

 

[NanaPat]

They're known for standing and posing. The snake dance everyone loves so much contained a ton of standing and posing.

I noticed it a lot the second year they did the snake dance. I don't know if it was the choreography that changed or my perceptions.

 

[kolyadafan2002]

Hmm.. not sure about either of Chock and Bates's programs. To me (like last year), their free is a set of unconnected movements. Their lifts looked a bit shaky.
I think an off Gilles and Poirier at the Cup of China were better. I also think Fear and Gibson could end up ahead of them at worlds. Sure, they ended up World champions after a shaky start last year, but they didn't look slow like that last year. Is injury an issue with them?

Orihara and Pirinen are dynamite performers and wow they have the best lifts in the competition. Turkkila and Versluis were my favourites here- while there's not an obvious sense of storytelling to the free, there was a sense of continuity and emotion/feeling to the movement throughout it. Plus it's so different from what anyone else is really doing at the moment.

I think Zingas and Kolesnik are going to exceed Carreira and Ponamarenko pretty soon. They just have the wow factor.

I'm not going to predict worlds right now, as scoring often changes before and politics has a massive impact, but there is a small possibility Chock/Bates could end up 5th. Here I'd argue FB/S should have won, and I think if C/B make any more technical mistakes at the GPF, there's a small chance judges will push FB/S or F/G onto the podium.

Of course, in reality I don't count on it happening. But C/B certainly have a battle this year. It's worth noting that Piper and Paul had injuries etc that prevented them being their best at worlds (and lost a lot of reputation), which contributed to C/B winning worlds. IMO with the fall, they shouldn't have (and I did prefer G/F on account of skating skills, and thought their programs last year were really engaging in program). But if Piper and Paul continued at their GPF level I suspect they would have won worlds and would have been political favourites.

 

[Chantilly]

I am not convinced that Piper and Paul have a chance of taking the gold at Worlds.
Chock and Bates have proven they can win with mistakes.
Piper and Paul were bested by their teammates in the RD in China. Rightfully so.
But Chock and Bates still won even though most thought they should’ve been 2nd.
If Piper and Paul can’t get their levels up, they’ll be beat.
Guinard and Fabri never seem to make mistakes. Technically they are the strongest team out there.
We will see of course but I think this years podium will be the same as last year’s.

 

[kolyadafan2002]

I am not convinced that Piper and Paul have a chance of taking the gold at Worlds.
Chock and Bates have proven they can win with mistakes.
Piper and Paul were bested by their teammates in the RD in China. Rightfully so.
But Chock and Bates still won even though most thought they should’ve been 2nd.
If Piper and Paul can’t get their levels up, they’ll be beat.
Guinard and Fabri never seem to make mistakes. Technically they are the strongest team out there.
We will see of course but I think this years podium will be the same as last year’s.

The question is how marking will be different when compared to other teams? Say G/F and G/P have clean skates at GPF, and C/B make a mistake. They can't reasonably (but they can if looking at last year's worlds) give C/B the same PCS, they SHOULD give lower. Then they are at risk of losing to FB/S as well.

When C/B weren't directly compared to G/P and G/F, they won't ding the PCS for mistakes as much. In theory. Unsure if worlds in montreal will have an impact.

The other thing is individual judging preferences are very powerful. There is no clear #1 team right now, so judge to judge variation is quite big looking at skatingscores. This means minor changes in judging panels can have impacts on placements. And might make the difference (in favour of any of the top 3 teams G/F, C/B or G/P).

In fact, Lilah and Lewis are extremely popular in Japan, moreso than any other currently active couple. If NHK score G/F lower because of this, they might have negative rep going into GPF (or impact their skating order). If they score F/G higher (and don't lower G/Fs scores), then it could still impact skating order somehow (not quite worked out all the possible scenarios).

 

[throw_triple_flip]

I'm not going to predict worlds right now, as scoring often changes before and politics has a massive impact, but there is a small possibility Chock/Bates could end up 5th. Here I'd argue FB/S should have won, and I think if C/B make any more technical mistakes at the GPF, there's a small chance judges will push FB/S or F/G onto the podium.

Of course, in reality I don't count on it happening. But C/B certainly have a battle this year. It's worth noting that Piper and Paul had injuries etc that prevented them being their best at worlds (and lost a lot of reputation), which contributed to C/B winning worlds. IMO with the fall, they shouldn't have (and I did prefer G/F on account of skating skills, and thought their programs last year were really engaging in program). But if Piper and Paul continued at their GPF level I suspect they would have won worlds and would have been political favourites.

I wonder what would've happened if Fournier Beaudrey and Sorenson hadn't had that disastrous fall at GPF, as it looked like they might've taken the silver there otherwise. Though, she did suffer a knee injury prior to foir continents, which likely affected their ability to perform/practice, so maybe it would've had no bearing on their placing at worlds at all.

I also wonder if it wasn't so much loss of reputation but the medical issues Piper Gilles experienced last year contributing to their actual performance at Worlds, it looked like she wasn't quite back up to fitness at that point. There were claims that judges "dropped" them at the end of the last Olympic season too, but for whatever reason they were skating better earlier in that season while their rivals seemed to be improving..

 

[throw_triple_flip]

In fact, Lilah and Lewis are extremely popular in Japan, moreso than any other currently active couple.

I think crowd reaction could play a part in the perception of a program, even to the most hardened of judges.