2024 Europeans: Men's thoughts? | Page 3 | Golden Skate

2024 Europeans: Men's thoughts?

lariko

Medalist
Joined
Jan 31, 2019
Country
Canada
We'll see how dangerous it is when Sim Fa falls from it in a competition, and there is a big chance of that since there is no such jump from which skaters don't fall.
 

Rebecca Moose

On the Ice
Joined
Oct 6, 2023
Country
United-States
I think an "in your face" move that is legitimately illegal isn't exactly a warm and friendly nod to your competitors.
the thing is adam had no competition here -- he was on another level -- so no need for warm and fuzzies. this is a competition and a sport, not woke participation trophies for all!
 

Zora

On the Ice
Joined
Feb 16, 2010
Concerning Adam's back flip, my only thought was: cool, are they now allowed in the choreo sequence? Makes sense since the choreo sequence gives the skaters some freedom to do things. But turned out, they're not. 😆

My highlight of the competition was Selevko's spin in the short program though! I had never seen this heel thing before! Only in roller skating.
 

Moxiejan

Medalist
Joined
Jan 11, 2014
Country
United-States
While I certainly don’t want to see back flips becoming a trend in competitive skating, I thought Adam’s made sense here.

Since we’re now seeing cartwheels — without penalty — in footwork & choreo sequences, i fail to see why a back flip should be scored differently.

But I’m not advocating for back flips. I’d also get rid of the cartwheels. Especially the handless ones, which are just as “aerial” as a back flip.
 

dearskate

Rinkside
Joined
Dec 15, 2006
Country
Scotland
I was delighted with the podium line up. I love Adam's skating, although this was definitely not his best performance. I initially thought he did the backflip because he thought he had lost the title anyway! I am a new Selevko fan after this competition and totally agree about the reaction of both brothers to the performance of the other one. Normally they are so close in their marks so it couldn't have been more unexpected for both of them. I am very delighted for Rizzo and certainly hope he makes a strong comeback after surgery. The men's competition was absorbing right from the start with some great and original programmes, unlike the women who float around all looking the same as each other.
 

kolyadafan2002

Fan of Kolyada
Final Flight
Joined
Jun 6, 2019
We'll see how dangerous it is when Sim Fa falls from it in a competition, and there is a big chance of that since there is no such jump from which skaters don't fall.
Again I had friends who struggled with doubles who had near perfect consistency on backflip. It's pretty easy once you've done it, it's more dangerous if it slips on takeoff and you fall mid air (rather than on landing), which is more of a risk training first time (although still possible for people already landed it).
 

4everchan

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 7, 2015
Country
Martinique
For having followed figure skating in the Bonaly era, I am not so sure that danger is the main/only factor when it comes to banning the backflip.

I think, back then, there was a stronger desire for skaters to focus on what they do on the ice, especially soon after the figures were nixed. If you look at older ice dance programs, you will see as well that the focus was on way less acrobatic moves and more on "ice dance".

Bonaly : they told her that figure skating jumps were to be landed on one foot and that the backflip was illegal because it was landed on two...
She landed it on one foot... still illegal.. She even combo it with a 3s... Still illegal (btw, that move is awesome Back Flip + 3S)


There is a version with a two feet landing and triple toe.


At this point, the ISU needs to be fair. If they allow hands free cartwheel or the raspberry twist, which are also acrobatic moves, or aerials if you prefer... if they allow cartwheels using the hands on the ice, and not the blades... if they allow very intricate acrobatic lifts in ice dance ... and we know how many ice dancers are suffering from concussion these days, they need to reconsider it all.

Should they keep banning the backflip but also ban moves that are equally acrobatic/dangerous and non-traditionally landing on one foot...

Or should they allow for more acrobatics and reinstate the backflip so it can be part of the choreo sequence for instance or as a difficult entry to a jump.

Personally, if we were to start seeing backflips every 3 or 4 programs, I'd certainly get bored with them... ;) but I do not think it's really fair to pick and choose what is apparently dangerous or not and what is apparently too acrobatic or not ;)
 

icewhite

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 7, 2022
I think the backflip should be allowed since aerials are allowed. It doesn't make sense to ban one and allow the other. However I only want to see it in the role of an aerial: as one possible transitional element among many. Not as a jump with a bv.
 

kolyadafan2002

Fan of Kolyada
Final Flight
Joined
Jun 6, 2019
I think the backflip should be allowed since aerials are allowed. It doesn't make sense to ban one and allow the other. However I only want to see it in the role of an aerial: as one possible transitional element among many. Not as a jump with a bv.
Maybe add it only as a potential feature in choreo step (can only be completed in choreo step)? That way it'll clearly mark it as choreo
 

4everchan

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 7, 2015
Country
Martinique
I think the backflip should be allowed since aerials are allowed. It doesn't make sense to ban one and allow the other. However I only want to see it in the role of an aerial: as one possible transitional element among many. Not as a jump with a bv.
I agree it shouldn't be an BV element. I see it two ways : as part of a choreo sequence or as a difficult entry before a jump, the way Surya was doing it... Simply because skaters already do that with the spread eagle or the walleys or the cantilevers... or spiral etc
 

el henry

Go have some cake. And come back with jollity.
Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 3, 2014
Country
United-States
I'm not convinced that the backflip is so dangerous, after all everyone and their brother does one in exhibitions. ;)

But the point is not whether it is dangerous, the point is that it is outlawed. If the ISU outlawed sitting on the ice and waving during a comp, I would feel the same way if a skater sat on the ice and waved at the end of the comp.

This is not going to change the ISU's collective mind. :)
 

4everchan

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 7, 2015
Country
Martinique
I'm not convinced that the backflip is so dangerous, after all everyone and their brother does one in exhibitions. ;)

But the point is not whether it is dangerous, the point is that it is outlawed. If the ISU outlawed sitting on the ice and waving during a comp, I would feel the same way if a skater sat on the ice and waved at the end of the comp.

This is not going to change the ISU's collective mind. :)
yes and no... don't forget your little cousin btw...

the ISU changes what's allowed and not allowed all the time...

For instance, the gliding moves in ice dance.
TBH I wouldn't be surprised that the backflip gets authorized at some point in the recent future (perhaps post olympics)... It's a move that is loved by the casual fans and we know that the ISU is targeting a larger audience...

So many other sports focused on aerials and acrobatics are now part of the winter olympic family (all these crazy sports like half pipe, slopestyle, big air etc) and are now in direct competition with figure skating for what's exciting out there for the casual fans.
 

Crowdproud

On the Ice
Joined
Nov 1, 2022
Alexander Selevko (EST) was such a highlight! He's had a solid season and fully lived up to the potential he showed earlier in the season. As a side note, his gala Step Up routine was his SP music in the 2020/2021 season, when he earned an Olympic quota for Estonia. Now Alexander is at the gala after winning a silver medal at an ISU championship; it has come full circle for him.

I also really enjoyed the free skate from Vladimir Samoilov (POL) -- he has such power and speed coming into his jumps that they seem to cover half the rink. Such freedom of movement; I don't think it was fully reflected in his PCS. The reactions from his team were heartwarming.

Edit: saw this photo of Samoilov that illustrates my point; the height is amazing: https://www.instagram.com/p/C2QcK_eoC78/?img_index=4
 
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Sk8swan

On the Ice
Joined
Oct 31, 2004
Bravo to Matteo for seizing his opportunity. We have no idea if he will be ready for worlds or not, so this was important for him.

Unfortunately Matteo's recovery after the planned surgery (early February) will be a long one. He's facing up to 4 months with no skating and 5-6 months before he can try any jump. So fingers crossed he can recover well...
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
If Adam really means it as something to push the sport, then in my opinion he should have made the backflip an official part of his FS program choreography this season, and did it in every FS in every competition he entered this season, regardless of how he did and scored in the SP, and take all the deductions.

He didn't, and we can see which competitions where he didn't do it, even when he skated a cleaner FS than at Europeans.

I appreciate the backflip as an emotional, joyful release for Adam after navigating a tricky big competition as a huge favorite for the title. And I'm happy to see it appreciated by the crowd. But Adam doesn't do backflips when Ilia, Shoma and Yuma are skating in the same competition with him, so I don't see where he's pushing the sport beyond getting his well deserved exposure as a social media viral sensation.

If there weren’t points deduction associated with it, I’m sure he would bring it to a competition with those guys. Or if he had a commanding lead and was assured the win, like in Euros he had it in the bag.
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
If Adam really means it as something to push the sport, then in my opinion he should have made the backflip an official part of his FS program choreography this season, and did it in every FS in every competition he entered this season, regardless of how he did and scored in the SP, and take all the deductions.

He didn't, and we can see which competitions where he didn't do it, even when he skated a cleaner FS than at Europeans.

I appreciate the backflip as an emotional, joyful release for Adam after navigating a tricky big competition as a huge favorite for the title. And I'm happy to see it appreciated by the crowd. But Adam doesn't do backflips when Ilia, Shoma and Yuma are skating in the same competition with him, so I don't see where he's pushing the sport beyond getting his well deserved exposure as a social media viral sensation.

If there weren’t points deduction associated with it, I’m sure he would bring it to a competition with those guys. Or if he had a commanding lead and was assured the win, like in Euros he had it in the bag.
We'll see how dangerous it is when Sim Fa falls from it in a competition, and there is a big chance of that since there is no such jump from which skaters don't fall.

The danger is if he mistimes the pick. But it’s a trick he does do often that it’s not really a risk.

Also a “backflip” sounds dangerous by its nature but it really isn’t dangerous nor that difficult for those who regularly do them. If you bail you usually put your hands down to soften the fall.

Pairs lifts are way more dangerous because the woman can quite literally nose dive, and from a much greater height than the height of a backflip. If you look at disastrous skating falls it’s almost invariably pairs - I don’t think I’ve actually seen a clip of a skater falling on a backflip, and I hope Adam isn’t the first.
 

rabidline

Final Flight
Joined
Aug 16, 2018
If there weren’t points deduction associated with it, I’m sure he would bring it to a competition with those guys. Or if he had a commanding lead and was assured the win, like in Euros he had it in the bag.
But that's the thing... it's like competing with a new style of choreography or a very unusual music selection. You either do it or you don't, especially this is a choreographic element, not a jumping pass. If he picks and chooses where he does it, where is he pushing the sport?
 
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