2024 U.S. Nationals: Women's thoughts?

[Steinbeck]

I say terrible in regards to her character because I read two interviews and I would never let my child train with that woman after that.

Ah, ok. I'm not up to speed on that aspect of things.

 

[Parksideprince]

I am tired of American women being subpar on the world stage. Japan, Russia, Korea and Belgium are all the serious contenders. If Levitó and Glenn couldn't hold it together for nationals, what makes us think they'll win a World medal? Karen Chen anyone? Gracie Gold anyone?

 

[Mathman]

I am tired of American women being subpar on the world stage. Japan, Russia, Korea and Belgium are all the serious contenders. If Levitó and Glenn couldn't hold it together for nationals, what makes us think they'll win a World medal? Karen Chen anyone? Gracie Gold anyone?

Karen Chen was a good skater. Gracie Gold was a good skater.

OK, maybe not as good as the Belgians, but hey -- good for Belgium!

 

[lesnar001]

Karen Chen was a good skater. Gracie Gold was a good skater.

OK, maybe not as good as the Belgians, but hey -- good for Belgium!

Isabeau Levito and Amber Glenn ain't so bad either!

Isabeau just missed the podium at Worlds last year - less than 3 points behind a certain Belgian!
And Amber Glenn is one of only a handful of women that is capable of doing a 3A. I just wish she would put it in her SP as well.

You never know what might happen at Worlds. Right now, I'd say that Kaori Sakamoto is the only one who is a certain lock for at least a medal, and most probably the Gold Medal.

 

[Cindy1983]

Someone can have a bad night. There’s a difference. Some of it is American media. Let’s face it; they’re brutal. I also seem to remember that Sasha Cohen was wildly inconsistent, yet she placed well. She had artistry.

Yes, the Russian girls had the technical firepower, but the artistry and general personality see is missing. The Japanese are the most balanced skaters and their results demonstrate that. Going back to the Russians, people lauded technical firepower, but I miss the personalities. No one has the star quality. That’s not an American vs World thing, as we’ve adopted other skaters with that charisma.

Is it lack of talent or mismanagement of talent? Looking for someone to save the program is a less effective strategy than developing talent. The Great Savior of US Ladies’ Skating May never materialize. I think we can surmise that this mentality was what did Gracie Gold in.

It seems that reputation matters to a point that girls are actually skating against their own reputation vs a competitor. The former is harder to overcome. It also affects scoring and leads to self-fulfilling prophesies where girls skate according to reputations.

 

[zebobes]

For a while, US skaters tended to consistently do better at Nationals and fall apart at Worlds, Ashley and Gracie being the two who always had one fall apart in the short at worlds, and thus always make getting three spots impossible. Karen Chen is the only exception to that rule, who always performed up at Worlds. The fact that Amber has been slowly and steadily improving the technical ability of the FS, while not hitting it out of the park, may actually be a great thing for her at Worlds.

The fact that Isabeau has faced her greatest fear, losing her national title, could be a good thing for her, as now hopefully some of the pressure is off her shoulders. I think this shows that the big governing bodies really should reconsider allowing junior aged women to compete at senior nationals, as the pressure that has been on Isabeau winning the gold at age 15 was too much for her to handle at the time.

 

[cailuj365]

Eh, the Korean senior ladies have not been any better than the US ladies this year. In fact, the US outshone them in the GP season whereas Korea's World silver medalist came in 4th at both events. Levito and Glenn are very close. The difference is controlling nerves and mental side of things, not lack of talent or physical ability.

 

[noskates]

I think we all have to remember that Isabeau is VERY young. I will admit (and duck) that I honestly don't think Amber can medal at Worlds. She is inconsistent, has trouble handling the pressure and never quite lives up to her potential. Nationals this year was the exception. I truly hope she skates lights out at Worlds but I'm not holding my breath. I still think Isabeau is our future but there are also some skaters coming up that have potential. How does potential translate into medals? Wow - if I knew that I would be a gazillionaire. I don't know if its training methods, mindset, the fact that maybe our ladies have somewhat of a life outside of skating and maybe the foreign skaters are more focussed? Don't know.

 

[moonvine]

It’s the emergence of Korea’s single skaters that’s more indicative that there is something wrong with the North America system because unlike Russia and Japan, Korea is a small federation and was never a factor in the sport in the past. (How popular is figure skating in Korea?) It wasn’t that long ago when Korea women were not competitive at all and Dabin Choi was the sole entry at Worlds. Now Korea has maximum spots and are definitely ahead of the North America women.

As for the Korean men, I posted on here maybe two or three years ago that Cha Junhwan is in a position to call KFed bluff and play hardball by just not showing up to some of their frequent and untimely domestic competitions as he’s the only internationally competitive man they can even send to the big competitions. This is no longer true; the junior men even outshined the Japanese on the JGP this year. In a few more years, they’ll be more competitive than the American men on the senior circuit, as well.

Obviously Kim Yuna and Cha Junhwan played a huge part in this, but the program took years to develop. As the saying goes, “it takes a giant,” but why aren’t we seeing this sort of development in North America? What does a small federation have that the much bigger feds do not? It sure isn’t money so it’s something else.

I don't know. What do they have? Thailand is absolutely determined to become a figure skating powerhouse, so guess what? They FULLY fund all their skaters. So their skaters do not have to worry about getting money for training and costumes and choreography and etc. They do not need to worry about coaching, ice time, etc. They do not need to coach, choreograph, sell stuff on Etsy, etc to fund their skating. They just need to skate. If I were an American skater who could get Thai citizenship I would be there so fast it would make your head spin like in The Exorcist. I read Nathan Chen's book and his family was extremely poor. He got help from the Michael Weiss foundation, which no longer exists. Is something else taking it's place? I do know of one skater who has a patron, but I can't name them as I said I wouldn't.

I disagree. I think the US men are much stronger than the women. The issue with the men is that there’s a steep drop-off after Ilia and behind him there’s a handful of men that have the same Worlds top-10 scoring potential but are hot messes on the ice. (Quite similar to the Russian men’s field actually.) The depth is there, but the consistency isn’t. The junior men are good, too.

But the women….it’s not just lack of consistency. They’re behind technically and I’m not just talking about jumps. I’m also talking about program composition. Thorngren and Levito have the right idea and look who’s coaching them. Overall, though, I’m not seeing the same depth in the women’s and I see very little development in the junior ranks.

Don't shoot me, but I think if Gracie had come to this Nationals healthy and was able to skate, she would have made the podium. It was not a very well skated event. Please don't misunderstand, I respect all skaters and wish them all the very best, but there aren't many who I enjoy watching. I do like Amber and I love Sonja Hilmer but she's not going far without more tech content. That's a pity as she does things that literally no one else can do. IMHO that should be rewarded just like skaters who do jumps no one else can do. I would love less emphasis on jumps and more emphasis on skating skills. Most will disagree and that's fine.

I also agree that the men are stronger than the women. I'm worried about Sam Mindra because he is one of 10 children and I don't know where the money is going to come from to carry him long term. He doesn't have a 3A that I'm aware of. But he's a wonderful and interesting skater and I'd rather watch him than some of the higher ranked skaters.

 

[moonvine]

I don’t think it’s fair to even include Russian girls in the equation, as far as progress goes, for obvious reasons.
I certainly feel the US ladies could compete with Japanese and Korean.

I feel like they have all their eggs in the Isabeau basket though, and this is discouraging to other athletes that have better, more sustainable technique.

Maybe not after this past Nationals. She needs to go...somewhere? Raf? (who was going to retire and now seems to continue taking on new students) and start all over. DIdn't we all know her jump technique was unsustainable?

 

[moonvine]

Where are the announcements re teams for Worlds both Sr and Jr? Thanks.

I believe the juniors have a selection camp? I don't think they have been announced

Men and Pairs: https://www.usfigureskating.org/new...kating-names-mens-and-pairs-world-team-roster

Women and Dance: https://www.usfigureskating.org/new...-names-womens-and-ice-dance-world-team-roster

 

[moonvine]

Amber Glenn finished her free program with great difficulty. If she does the same at the worlds, the judges will not forgive her. I don’t understand why she doesn’t want to transfer her 3A to the short program. This would immediately add points to her and give her the opportunity to save energy in the free program. Isabeau's situation is even worse - it looks like she has some big problems with her legs (hips, knees, ligaments, muscles - I don't know what exactly). Her falls were very unusual. It would be better for her to undergo the most detailed medical examination possible, rather than compete. And Ziegler could have been sent to the worlds instead Levito.

Overall, the tournament did not make a good impression. Especially the choreography. The skaters couldn’t keep up with the slow music even, and their hand movements looked extremely unprofessional. Of course, I understand that athletes from a banned country are to blame for this, but nevertheless the fact remains a fact. In general, with such a team, the United States may lose the second quota.

It would add points if she landed it.

 

[moonvine]

This is over the top. This coach raised Isabeau into an incredibly special performer. So much so that domestic/international judging doesn't just ignore her flutz/ur/unaesthetic jumps but gives her high GOEs on them. That's kind of a backhanded compliment, I know, and I'm not saying that's ok. But let's not throw out the baby with the bathwater. If there's a jump coach to ADD who can tweak her jump technique just enough without upending her altogether (a tough task after so many years jumping the same way), now that would be good. But calling Isabeau's coach "terrible" is unfair IMO.

Isabeau is a lovely young lady and so gracious with her fans. But I would not call her an incredibly special performer by any means. There are many lower level US ladies that I prefer to watch.

 

[moonvine]

Karen Chen was a good skater. Gracie Gold was a good skater.

OK, maybe not as good as the Belgians, but hey -- good for Belgium!

Gracie Gold IS a great skater.

 

[Jammers]

For a while, US skaters tended to consistently do better at Nationals and fall apart at Worlds, Ashley and Gracie being the two who always had one fall apart in the short at worlds, and thus always make getting three spots impossible. Karen Chen is the only exception to that rule, who always performed up at Worlds. The fact that Amber has been slowly and steadily improving the technical ability of the FS, while not hitting it out of the park, may actually be a great thing for her at Worlds.

The fact that Isabeau has faced her greatest fear, losing her national title, could be a good thing for her, as now hopefully some of the pressure is off her shoulders. I think this shows that the big governing bodies really should reconsider allowing junior aged women to compete at senior nationals, as the pressure that has been on Isabeau winning the gold at age 15 was too much for her to handle at the time.

What are you talking about Ashley and Gracie not only got the 3rd spot back in 2013 but kept those 3 spots through the 2017 season. While Gracie never quite skated to her potential at Worlds and won a medal that she should have won with her talent she had four straight top 6 finishes at Worlds including two 4th place finishes where she was barely off the podium. And Ashley was at least top 7 for six straight years with a silver medal in 2016. They both carried US Ladies for years while Karen got lucky in some badly skated Worlds to finish 4th a couple of time but was never a real medal threat like Gracie and Ashley.

 

[zebobes]

What are you talking about Ashley and Gracie not only got the 3rd spot back in 2013 but kept those 3 spots through the 2017 season. While Gracie never quite skated to her potential at Worlds and won a medal that she should have won with her talent she had four straight top 6 finishes at Worlds including two 4th place finishes where she was barely off the podium. And Ashley was at least top 7 for six straight years with a silver medal in 2016. They both carried US Ladies for years while Karen got lucky in some badly skated Worlds to finish 4th a couple of time but was never a real medal threat like Gracie and Ashley.

You are right, I was relying on memories, which have gotten foggy.

I think the agonizing years between 2010-2012 got magnified in my recall, and I thus forgot the good years afterwards, and I remembered Ashley not living up to her potential at first, and forgot how she turned things around.

I'm so embarrassed.

 

[readernick]

The US ladies are plenty talented. They are also all interesting IMHO because they all have unique strengths and weakness and remarkably different styles. The issue is that they are very inconsistent. However, outside of Kaori who isn't inconsistent in the current ladies field? Nina Pinzarrone, I suppose, but in terms of quality she doesn't really hold a candle to the top US ladies or any of the other top skaters. Frankly, being consistent is extremely difficult and only a few skaters have the right mindset for that. Let's see how the ladies do at 4CC and Worlds.

 

[moonvine]

You are right, I was relying on memories, which have gotten foggy.

I think the agonizing years between 2010-2012 got magnified in my recall, and I thus forgot the good years afterwards, and I remembered Ashley not living up to her potential at first, and forgot how she turned things around.

I'm so embarrassed.

Please do not be embarrassed. I spend my life misremembering things.

 

[Sjs5572]

What are you talking about Ashley and Gracie not only got the 3rd spot back in 2013 but kept those 3 spots through the 2017 season. While Gracie never quite skated to her potential at Worlds and won a medal that she should have won with her talent she had four straight top 6 finishes at Worlds including two 4th place finishes where she was barely off the podium. And Ashley was at least top 7 for six straight years with a silver medal in 2016. They both carried US Ladies for years while Karen got lucky in some badly skated Worlds to finish 4th a couple of time but was never a real medal threat like Gracie and Ashley.

Also, let's not forget about Alysa Liu, who medalled in her only trip to Worlds in 2022.

 

[Mathman]

They (aspiring American skaters) do not need to coach, choreograph, sell stuff on Etsy, etc to fund their skating.

Way back in the day, for some reason working as a coffee barista at Starbucks was briefly the go-to choice of a lot of skaters, especially in California. Jenny Kirk and Naomi Nari Nam are two examples.

Then there was the famous "waitress and truck driver" pairs team of Calla Urbanski and Rocky Marvel, who had a fine career and made it to the Olympics in 1992. Dorothy Hamill once quipped that it was either win the gold medal and become a millionaire (she did) or get silver and go back to being a secretary in Chicago.