- Joined
- Mar 14, 2007
which rules? Are they coming back?
2025 Denis Ten Memorial Challenge: General Info and Pregame Chat
- Thread starter gsk8
- Start date
They took each one down overnight (before the next day). It is what British Ice Skating does as well for its events, including any international events which are streamed on its channel. I think they do it to protect themselves against the risk of copyright claims.
- Joined
- Dec 4, 2004
I think you are quite correct. I cant figure out how youtube keeps up JPG events with all those skaters using all that music.....Sure enough, some day someone is gonna skate to "Tiptoe through the tulips" by tiny tim and someone will get wacked.
- Joined
- Mar 14, 2007
They’re supposed to get permission from the copyright holder to use the music now.I think you are quite correct. I cant figure out how youtube keeps up JPG events with all those skaters using all that music.....Sure enough, some day someone is gonna skate to "Tiptoe through the tulips" by tiny tim and someone will get wacked.
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- Jul 26, 2003
They sold tickets to it, so I presume there was.
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- Dec 4, 2004
OK, I thought the way the music industry worked was the artist/writer/producer of the original song hired one of the big companies to manage the copywrite and give permission. 5 years ago or so, a comentator at a skating event said a governing body actually paid the money for the use of the song. So if someone used a song at US Nats, the USFS would pay the price, which I assume was negligable. I can see this getting complex when a certain artist uses a Simon and Garfunkle song and makes their own verision. Evidently, I have no idea how this all works in the brave new world of live vs streaming....
When I click the link for day one, it says "This video has been removed for violating youtube's terms of service." What ever that means.
And yet, Ms. Lee's FS is indeed up on youtube.
- YouTube
Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.
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- Dec 6, 2024
OK, I thought the way the music industry worked was the artist/writer/producer of the original song hired one of the big companies to manage the copywrite and give permission. 5 years ago or so, a comentator at a skating event said a governing body actually paid the money for the use of the song. So if someone used a song at US Nats, the USFS would pay the price, which I assume was negligable. I can see this getting complex when a certain artist uses a Simon and Garfunkle song and makes their own verision. Evidently, I have no idea how this all works in the brave new world of live vs streaming....
When I click the link for day one, it says "This video has been removed for violating youtube's terms of service." What ever that means.
And yet, Ms. Lee's FS is indeed up on youtube.
- YouTube
Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.
We do have a lot of rules regarding music.
All videography done at events are not to have sound on it. However, despite this, many skaters and teams are layering their music on the video.
This summarizes our music rules. I hope it helps: https://www.usfigureskating.org/sites/default/files/media-files/U.S. Figure Skating Music Policy.pdf
As for videos with music not being pulled down since this rule change, I believe it’s a matter of the luck of the draw when it comes to being reported for a takedown.
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- Dec 4, 2004
Thanks! Wow....that is some document! But obviously, I pay Peacock and I watch US Nationals live and on demand....with sound. And of course some of those skaters do international events....so how is the pay made so that skater A can skate at a GP, or Worlds?
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- Dec 6, 2024
I don't have an answer other than a theory: Peacock (with how large of a company they are) might pay for a short term license, because it is only available for x amount of days. It's either watch it or lose it, which is so frustrating.
I am commonly short on time and miss it. With Peacock doing this strategy, they get more subscribers (us, whom may just have it just for that), and thus forth this fee is just a cost of doing business.When USFS National Theater on Ice 2025 happened (yes, I am a small potato), there were families and friends who wanted to watch from home since they came from over 22 states (over 1,500 athletes, over 85? teams, etc... the largest ever). They were provided a stream at the tune of $150, and when they watched it -- they overlapped it with different music than the actual music that they had chosen. They were very mad because this was not disclosed up front as they signed up to pay the fee.
I understand being "grateful" we are still allowed to watch and record (without sound) the physical performance, but music really ties it together! As an example, I can't imagine watching 2025 Blades of Texas Theater on Ice's Choreographic Exercise (or really any) without music (they have to wear all black for the choreographic exercise), because it pieces it all together. However, they just layered their music on top if you go looking for the recording.
- Joined
- Dec 4, 2004
You nailed it. Its a sad state of affairs. And the Nat. Theater on ice is a perfect example $150 for a none matching voice over....I would be mad too. The non discloser borders on the edge of litigation.I don't have an answer other than a theory: Peacock (with how large of a company they are) might pay for a short term license, because it is only available for x amount of days. It's either watch it or lose it, which is so frustrating.
When USFS National Theater on Ice 2025 happened (yes, I am a small potato), there were families and friends who wanted to watch from home since they came from over 22 states (over 1,500 athletes, over 85? teams, etc... the largest ever). They were provided a stream at the tune of $150, and when they watched it -- they overlapped it with different music than the actual music that they had chosen. They were very mad because this was not disclosed up front as they signed up to pay the fee.
I understand being "grateful" we are still allowed to watch and record (without sound) the physical performance, but music really ties it together! As an example, I can't imagine watching 2025 Blades of Texas Theater on Ice's Choreographic Exercise (or really any) without music (they have to wear all black for the choreographic exercise), because it pieces it all together. However, they just layered their music on top if you go looking for the recording.
I have no idea if this kind of bullying goes on in other countries.....What I do know if that it hurts the sport. I am so old I remember when we had four channels with rabbit ears on our TV and there were all sorts of pro comps and holiday specials and of course Wide world of Sports covering major events and you could recorded them on something called a VCR. And timer shift them.
I DO know I can watch Japanese TV, 50 channels, with a two week play back, for $4 for 3 days. And I do know a VPN can be used to circumvent US Lawyers at times.
I will be on a cruise ship to Hawaii during US Nats and Peacock wont keep up the skates, which is sad. I have been a Friend of Figure Skating for many years...Started going to US comps in 2002. I have wonderful memories of many events and many breakfasts with the athletes. Now, I am not feeling the love when waring lawyers can't figure out solutions.
The obvious solution is to create a data base of artists who are willing to sign over the rights of their tunes to be used by skaters everywhere for very little money, all season....for any kind of broadcast and streaming, world wide. People like Sarah Brightman and Celtic Woman have found out that giving out their product on Public TV has brought in nothing but major sales of their music. I have no idea why someone doesnt go to artists and say, LOOK! EXPOSURE!!!
I am not looking for something for free. I would have loved to see the Denis Ten event. And I wouldnt have minded paying $5-10 bucks to see it on demand. Someone needs to get a clue on why Skating is so big in Japan and had collaped in the US.
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- Dec 6, 2024
It all started with this court case: https://people.com/sports/beijing-olympics-us-figure-skaters-sued-copyright-infringement-song-nbc/
I am unsure how other countries do it, but this is how it currently is for even small children.
However… How closely the rule is followed; I am unsure.
I didn’t know until when these rules hammered down that stores who play music overhead also have to pay for the rights.
It makes sense now that Walmart has their own radio station to skip over that.
In other communities, copyright issues have even affected home bakers. We can purchase a cookie cutter of Mickey Mouse from the store, but we are not permitted to sell Mickey Mouse cookies without approval of Disney.
It makes me wonder as far as fabric for the costumes; do they also have to get permission from the fabric maker to use them?
I’d be a mess and ripping my hair out trying to figure all that out if I was not just doing figure skating to just have a fun time.
- Joined
- Dec 4, 2004
I am reminded of the parady piece in the "penuts" cartoon where there was much talk of licensing. Harley Davison even tried to license the sound their motorcycles make.
What's next? elevator music?
Overseas is much more "common sense" I think.
I remember at USFS nats, during slack times, they would play "Five for Fighting"....legal? A high school music/acting class doing Oklahoma?
Shakespere was right about lawyers.
Barry Manalow has done a bunch of commercial music, for which he was paid for...wonder if he or who holds the copy writes to
"Get a bucket of chicken
Get a barrel of fun
Goodbye hoe hum.,
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