2025 John Nicks Pairs Challenge Senior FS

TontoK · Sep 3, 2025

Ziotic said:
I count about 12-14 TES lost on - GOE and the fall and the 2S. Plus the lower PCS for the fall.

128 seems about right for a 145ish clean program

There is plenty of room for all these teams to improve. Interestingly, Max and Deanna took the judges 4-3 over Alisa and Misha on this free skate. So this was pretty tight all around. Sadly, I haven't been able to find either of these top free skates, and I really want to see them.

Even though the protocols show a sloppy performance, I would at least be able to get a vibe and imagine what is possible.

ramurphy2005 · Sep 3, 2025

TontoK said:
There is plenty of room for all these teams to improve. Interestingly, Max and Deanna took the judges 4-3 over Alisa and Misha on this free skate. So this was pretty tight all around. Sadly, I haven't been able to find either of these top free skates, and I really want to see them.

I did find Alisha and Misha on Instagram:

A.S. Reisinger on Instagram: "A great start to the season for Alisa Efimova and Misha Mitrofanov, who took silver at the John Nicks pairs challenge. Their free skate program for this season, “Love Story” is a tribute to Ekaterina Gordeeva and Sergei

171 likes, 25 comments - adam.s.reisinger on September 3, 2025: "A great start to the season for Alisa Efimova and Misha Mitrofanov, who took silver at the John Nicks pairs challenge. Their free skate program for this season, “Love Story” is a tribute to Ekaterina Gordeeva and Sergei Grinkov...

www.instagram.com

TontoK · Sep 4, 2025

ramurphy2005 said:
I did find Alisha and Misha on Instagram:

A.S. Reisinger on Instagram: "A great start to the season for Alisa Efimova and Misha Mitrofanov, who took silver at the John Nicks pairs challenge. Their free skate program for this season, “Love Story” is a tribute to Ekaterina Gordeeva and Sergei

171 likes, 25 comments - adam.s.reisinger on September 3, 2025: "A great start to the season for Alisa Efimova and Misha Mitrofanov, who took silver at the John Nicks pairs challenge. Their free skate program for this season, “Love Story” is a tribute to Ekaterina Gordeeva and Sergei Grinkov...

www.instagram.com

Thank you so much! You are the absolute king (or queen?) of finding the content I want to see. Here's a trophy from me!

As for the program... I liked that it was the one piece of music. I think that was smart. I don't mind it, but don't love it yet either. It seemed similar in feel to last season's program, but that could be because I was mentally comparing them as I watched.

I didn't notice yesterday, but that rink must be pretty small. I don't think they were skating particularly fast, but they always seemed to be right up against the boards on some of the big moves.

If you run across Deanna and Max's long, please give me a tag on that, friend.

ramurphy2005 · Sep 4, 2025

@TontoK

Funny you should ask since I found this not too long after your post

:

Link to private video removed.

It was unlisted, so it wouldn't show up on our Youtube savior's normal page, and I found it on a Twitter thread.

If I'm the queen of anything, it's noticing when other people post things. lol

TontoK · Sep 4, 2025

ramurphy2005 said:
@TontoK

Funny you should ask since I found this not too long after your post :

Link to private video removed.

It was unlisted, so it wouldn't show up on our Youtube savior's normal page, and I found it on a Twitter thread.

If I'm the queen of anything, it's noticing when other people post things. lol

Thank you! This time a crown for you!

This program is sorta like Alisa and Misha's. Some good bones there, but it will take some mileage to work everything out. I can see why the scoring was so close. Both programs were solid, but neither was outstanding.

4everchan · Sep 4, 2025

ramurphy2005 said:
@TontoK

Funny you should ask since I found this not too long after your post :

Link to private video removed

ramurphy2005 said:
It was unlisted, so it wouldn't show up on our Youtube savior's normal page, and I found it on a Twitter thread.

If I'm the queen of anything, it's noticing when other people post things. lol

many thanks

A few mistakes

3twist 4 Very strong.

3t-1a-2a + Deanna singled the axel. Last year, they were only doing 3t-1a-2a but Max did a double axel here at the second jump so I am thinking this is planned to be 3t-2a-2a.

the salchows were a hot mess... this has always been the most difficult element for them. doubled by both I think. Hard to see.

the loop throw was perhaps a bit too big. The good part is that she landed a beautiful one in the SP.

So these three elements cost them a lot of points.

the salchow throw, the lifts were great. The death spiral is not super nice but it's still a FoDs2 so that's good base value.

I love the program. the music is beautiful and they saved the best of the Poetas for the end... I think they have two gorgeous programs this year. I m curious about the surprise that is supposed to happen in the LP

4everchan · Sep 4, 2025

TontoK said:
Thank you! This time a crown for you!

This program is sorta like Alisa and Misha's. Some good bones there, but it will take some mileage to work everything out. I can see why the scoring was so close. Both programs were solid, but neither was outstanding.

I don't think they are comparable. I felt sleepy while watching an insipid love story and completely intrigued by Max and Deanna's program.

Both teams had enough costly mistakes... so I am not comparing elements.. only the programs.

Efimova may be channeling Katia but Misha is no Sergei. For me, that is one of the issues here... He doesn't convince

Kittosuni · Sep 4, 2025

no teams skated clean but not concerning as it's early in the season. It will be interesting to see how these teams compare to the ones competing in Japan.

Shin/Nagy needs to clean it up big time as they will be competing in the Olympics qualifier in couple of weeks but i think they should be able to get the job done easily.

dorispulaski · Sep 4, 2025

m.youtube.com

Williams/Lower USA
FS:

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

m.youtube.com

ramurphy2005 · Sep 4, 2025

John Nicks Pairs Challenge - Free Skate Video and Results

Two American teams ended up on the (tiny) podium, but it was the Canadian duo taking gold back north of the border.

adamreisinger.substack.com

Article with videos, too.

skylark · Sep 4, 2025

Of all the interesting things to note about all the skaters, some of the most enchanting skates... for me .. were both SP & FS of Chelsea and Ryan.

The most amazing thing is how beautifully their skating styles match and harmonize. Look at their unison on elements like the SBS spins, but what I really like is that their movements are in synch as to emotion and intention. I just love watching them skate together. And it's such a lovely surprise all 'round.

Someone on another site noted that with their earlier comp, Chelsea/Ryan scored 63+ on the SP, which is the best debut for a new USA pair (albeit both experienced pairs skaters) in many years. Well, for these skates, Chelsea fell, but she's proving to herself that she can complete them. I think it's so brave of both of them to find a way of continuing to do what they love, because they can and for the beauty of it.

As for Alisa and Misha's FS, I'm relieved that they're not going for imitation of G&G. Just a low-key, heartfelt tribute, in their own gorgeous style. Pretty impressive that their scores were very close to Deanna/Max.

paulusfr · Sep 4, 2025

ramurphy2005 said:
I did find Alisha and Misha on Instagram:

A.S. Reisinger on Instagram: "A great start to the season for Alisa Efimova and Misha Mitrofanov, who took silver at the John Nicks pairs challenge. Their free skate program for this season, “Love Story” is a tribute to Ekaterina Gordeeva and Sergei

171 likes, 25 comments - adam.s.reisinger on September 3, 2025: "A great start to the season for Alisa Efimova and Misha Mitrofanov, who took silver at the John Nicks pairs challenge. Their free skate program for this season, “Love Story” is a tribute to Ekaterina Gordeeva and Sergei Grinkov...

www.instagram.com

I've looked at the protocols, and I don't remember such high GOEs on their lifts before. Are they considered the #1 US team now with Kam and O'Shea pulling out of events, or is this just a typical "home-event" thing?..

TontoK · Sep 4, 2025

paulusfr said:
I've looked at the protocols, and I don't remember such high GOEs on their lifts before. Are they considered the #1 US team now with Kam and O'Shea pulling out of events, or is this just a typical "home-event" thing?..

Or it could be that these lifts were very good and met the GOE bullet points.

If it were a reputation bonus or homecooking, then I would have expected their SP lift to receive similar GOE - but it did not. I'm not smart enough to enumerate the bullet points, but to my eye the SP lift looked a little clunky, and it deservedly did not receive the same GOE that the LP lifts did.

Edit: The judges split the LP 4-3 in favor of Deanna and Max. One of the majority was the US judge. If it was homecooking, then he's not doing it right.

4everchan · Sep 4, 2025

TontoK said:
Or it could be that these lifts were very good and met the GOE bullet points.

If it were a reputation bonus or homecooking, then I would have expected their SP lift to receive similar GOE - but it did not. I'm not smart enough to enumerate the bullet points, but to my eye the SP lift looked a little clunky, and it deservedly did not receive the same GOE that the LP lifts did.

Here's a take on scoring differences between SP and LP.
Sometimes, teams do confirm a ranking or even do a bit better than expected. In this mini USA Nationals, E/M placing well in the SP may have influenced the judges, that and the LP starting order, in better GOE in the LP. It does happen often. I wouldn't call it homecooking at all. I would simply call it National ranking bonus points.. and/or skating order bonus points.

I know my biases towards Deanna and Max.... but I also really like Efimova. Her DS is far superior to Deanna's, for instance. At the same time, this Love story program for me was so bland... It had no love nor story. This being said, of course, with the lighting in there, it's too soon to judge the potential success of that program. Yet, i had all the feels with Max and Deanna's Poeta program... it's a very good one. So to me, being that close to Deanna and Max is ... odd. Both teams had similar costly errors... so yeah. Intriguing

Tutto · Sep 4, 2025

Good quality videos here:

John Nicks Pairs Challenge - Free Skate Video and Results

Two American teams ended up on the (tiny) podium, but it was the Canadian duo taking gold back north of the border.

adamreisinger.substack.com

TontoK · Sep 4, 2025

4everchan said:
Here's a take on scoring differences between SP and LP.

Initially, I could not see how the scoring differential was so great in the SP, but after reviewing the programs and the protocols, I get it.

Yes, Max and Deanna got zero points for the jumping pass, but with Alisa doubling and wonking the landing, the gain for E/M was miniscule on that element. That was more than offset by the GOE differences on the lift and the throw, and with fair reason. Add in the PCS difference for Max and Deanna - and remember this program for Alisa and Misha is less than a month old - that also makes sense.

Now, that's not to say that I don't think both programs were overscored - honestly that was a theme all the way down the line. But the actual four-point difference seems about right to me for the short. The long was a different story. I thought that was close, and the scores reflected that.

Diana Delafield · Sep 4, 2025

Tutto said:
Good quality videos here:

John Nicks Pairs Challenge - Free Skate Video and Results

Two American teams ended up on the (tiny) podium, but it was the Canadian duo taking gold back north of the border.

adamreisinger.substack.com

You'd think it would have been logical to find a larger podium, considering the event was only for pairs :shrug:

. And is the ceiling in that rink unusually low, or is it just the grid for the lights that makes it appear that way? I used to sometimes practise in a half-size rink that looked like that one, and we never did twists or certain lifts because there wasn't safe room overhead.

4everchan · Sep 4, 2025

Diana Delafield said:
You'd think it would have been logical to find a larger podium, considering the event was only for pairs .

Diana Delafield said:
And is the ceiling in that rink unusually low, or is it just the grid for the lights that makes it appear that way? I used to sometimes practise in a half-size rink that looked like that one, and we never did twists or certain lifts because there wasn't safe room overhead.

TontoK · Sep 4, 2025

Diana Delafield said:
You'd think it would have been logical to find a larger podium, considering the event was only for pairs . And is the ceiling in that rink unusually low, or is it just the grid for the lights that makes it appear that way? I used to sometimes practise in a half-size rink that looked like that one, and we never did twists or certain lifts because there wasn't safe room overhead.

To me, the whole rink looked small. To your vastly more experienced and qualified eye, did you think so, too? It seemed to me that everyone was skating slow, and the big elements had a kind of crammed-in look.

Diana Delafield · Sep 4, 2025

TontoK said:
To me, the whole rink looked small. To your vastly more experienced and qualified eye, did you think so, too? It seemed to me that everyone was skating slow, and the big elements had a kind of crammed-in look.

Yes, if that was what was making them look cautious, although some of that may be optical illusion because of no banks of seats expanding the space to walls further out. But, in North America at least, only rinks built for league hockey are guaranteed to be exactly standard measurements, as far as I know. Otherwise the ice surface may be cut off or expanded to fill the space available within the building.

I always preferred to train in a smaller rink. Then when competition adrenaline kicked in, we weren't as likely to run into the boards when we went bigger and faster. Or decapitate the spectators during lifts. At one Canadian championships in a slightly smaller rink, I saw a few judges flinch when one pairs girl's feet were whirling beyond the boards while a lift rotated right in front of them.

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