2025 U.S. Nationals Senior Men's Free Skate

[lariko]

Ilya Malinin's birth certificate is for Ilya Skornyakov if wiki is to be believed. While our guy is American and primarily anglophone, the name is Russian. His parents didn't choose Elijah for him, they picked Il'ya. So, spelling it and pronouncing it Ilya is not incorrect, particularly for a Russian speaker. Picking on others for using y vs i is odd and is a misunderstanding of semivowels, their role in Russian language and how it can be transcribed in Latin—where i and y are equivalent, and 'i' was used more in later 20th century for the same names because anglophones are not used to seeing so many 'y''s in their writing. But when I look at it, I want 'y' to identify a semivowel versus two different letters, it is clearer. Some languages use 'j' to do it.

I can spell it Ilyusha Malinin and it would be fine. I can spell it Илья, I can spell it Илюша and I can spell it Илья Романович. All of it is fine because of the way Russians use and change their names and how Russians transcribe them into Latin script. If I really wanted to, I could also spell it Илия, the medieval way, and it still would be the same name.

As Russians say, "(If you wish to) call me a pot, so long as you don't put me into the oven."

 

[Mathman]

People are funny when it comes to language. The English-speaking world has never been keen on preserving the characteristics of words and names adopted from other languages. No Englishmen says Pahreee when he talks about the capital of France. (At least that used to be the case unrtil recently.)

Once there was a country that English speakers called Turkey, No more, Now it's Türkiye.

 

[lariko]

People are funny when it comes to language. The English-speaking world has never been keen on preserving the characteristics of words and names adopted from other languages. No Englishmen says Pahreee when he talks about the capital of France. (At least that used to be the case unrtil recently.)

Once there was a country that English speakers called Turkey, No more, Now it's Türkiye.

And I don't begrudge an anglophone spelling it Ilia. Or them saying Malinin with a stress on a different syllable. What I mind is being 'corrected' by an anglophone on how to spell Ilya, how to say Malinin, and lectured that it is somehow 'disrespectful' to say and spell it as a Russian. It is not. It is in keeping with the Russian language.

 

[Skating91]

Ilia speaks so well you wouldn't think that Russian was his native language he speaks at home.

 

[el henry]

I would spell the name how Ilia chooses to spell it.

If he chooses to spell it Ilia, Ilia it is. If he choose to spell it Il'ya, Il'ya it is. How it is spelled in Russian Cyrillic is fascinating to me as a fan of languages, but not regarding Ilia's name. I would respect whatever his choices are.

From what I understand his Russian is good, but far from fluent. @lariko have you had occasion to hear Ilia speak Russian? How would you describe it?

(many many many many many Americans speak the language of their immigrant parents at home. Spousal Unit's grandfather spoke German at home with his parents. It didn't make German his native language. )

 

[Mathman]

Or them saying Malinin with a stress on a different syllable.

I wondered about that, too. I have heard both Ma-LEEN-in and MAL-inin. I believe that in general English puts heavier stress on the accented syllable than many languages do, resulting is syllables that are more or less (compared to English) evenly stressed. When Iruna Slutskaya performed in U.S. shows she was eye-REEN-a slute-SKY-a. When someone would say her name in Russian, I hardly recognized it as the same name.

 

[Mathman]

... how it can be transcribed in Latin—where i and y are equivalent, and 'i' was used more in later 20th century for the same names because anglophones are not used to seeing so many 'y''s in their writing.

Even Rudy Galindo briefly spelled his name "Rudi." I think that for English nicknames "i" is regarded as more cutesy-wootsy while "y" is somewhat more old fashioned these days.

Rudy's real name is Val Joe Galindo.

 

[lariko]

From what I understand his Russian is good, but far from fluent. @lariko have you had occasion to hear Ilia speak Russian? How would you describe it?

In 2020, during the JWC, all three Russian Americans junior (at the time) men spoke in Russian at length. Naumov had the strongest conversational Russian, Malinin had the weakest. He is functionally bilingual. He is an American. Nobody takes this away from him.

While Malinin and his family can choose to accommodate an English-speaking audience with both his first and last name, and it's understandable, I don't. I will say Russian names in Russian and spell them the way they sound right. In Torgashev's case, his parents picked Andrew, so Andrew it is, not Andrey or Andryusha.

In addition, it's a Russian cultural thing for 90% or more of us to not say or spell our names the way they are on our birth certificates/passports, except in a situation when English speaker would reach for Mrs. Johnson instead of Mary. English speakers use this Russian custom when they readily switch to Dima or Sasha instead of Dmitriy and Aleksandra. So, I don't see how English speakers can take it upon themselves correcting us for doing a Russian thing and saying Ilya the way it sounds. Guess what, I can call him Ilyusha. I get it that for an anglophone, Ilyusha looks even scarier than Il'ya, but for a Russian it's all naturally sounding and all good.

The main thing I am trying to get across is that i and y serve the same purpose when a semi-vowel is spelled, so the spelling is interchangeable, but 'ya' conveys semi-vowel more clearly, while 'ia' is more iffy, and it is more natural to read it as 'eee'-'ah' versis what you want it to sound like.

In Il'ya's case, it's IL, where L is soft and clearly divided (by a soft sign) from YAH.

In his father's last name, while he spells is Skorniakov (unlike other Skornyakovs online), it is actually the same semi-vowel, but without the soft sign, so it is not N-eee-ah-kov, but it is not N and YAH either. Semi-vowel without soft sign softens 'n' and forms one syllable that sounds different than n'ya. So, it's Il'-YAH (two syllables) and nyah as one syllable.

All of these pronunciation differences are lost when spelling is streamlined to avoid the use of 'y' and apostrophes, and two distinctive names are created in English artificially when it is the same one. Jumping people for acknowledging it is imo wrong, then jumping others for saying names wrong is so weird.

English speaker: "Oh, we want to say it right!"
Well-meaning speaker of other language: "Sure, let me spell it the closest I can manage."
English-speaker: "Woah! That's too hard to read!"
Well-meaning speaker of other language: "Fine, I'll simplify the spelling."
English-speaker: "Aha!" (proceeds to say it the way it's now spelled, and that sounds weird).

Now, adding, 'and you are spelling it all wrong!' is just an icing on that cake.

@Mathman Most Russian last names are stressed on a different syllable than an English speaker would choose when they read them. I honestly don't know why, but it is basically always the case. Sometimes it results in hilarious stuff, like Alexander Koro-VIN sounding in English like a grand aristocratic foreign name, when San'ka KoROvin is not exactly high-bred.

 

[moonvine]

I wondered about that, too. I have heard both Ma-LEEN-in and MAL-inin. I believe that in general English puts heavier stress on the accented syllable than many languages do, resulting is syllables that are more or less (compared to English) evenly stressed. When Iruna Slutskaya performed in U.S. shows she was eye-REEN-a slute-SKY-a. When someone would say her name in Russian, I hardly recognized it as the same name.

They ask at practices if they are pronouncing your name incorrectly to go and see them. So if it was a problem he would be able to correct it.

 

[Arigato]

What I mind is being 'corrected' by an anglophone on how to spell Ilya

Ilia.

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His choice. Not yours.

 

[museksk8r]

I recall when Oksana won her Olympic gold medal in 1994, there were broadcasts that spelled her name Bayul and others that spelled her name Baiul. I’ve always spelled it Baiul and she also uses this spelling on her Instagram account.

 

[Arigato]

I recall when Oksana won her Olympic gold medal in 1994, there were broadcasts that spelled her name Bayul and others that spelled her name Baiul. I’ve always spelled it Baiul and she also uses this spelling on her Instagram account.

I spelled it as she did: Baiul.

 

[Mathman]

What I mind is being 'corrected' by an anglophone on how to spell Ilya, how to say Malinin, and lectured that it is somehow 'disrespectful' to say and spell it as a Russian.

Ah, don't let Internet big-talkers get you down. All this information about Russian spellings and pronunciation is very interesting. I hope Ilia is reading happily along!

 

[moonvine]

Even Rudy Galindo briefly spelled his name "Rudi." I think that for English nicknames "i" is regarded as more cutesy-wootsy while "y" is somewhat more old fashioned these days.

Rudy's real name is Val Joe Galindo.

Wish I had known that when I named one of my cats "Rudy." I don't think I can change it to "Val Joe" after this long a time.

 

[moonvine]

I love both of these responses.

I love learning about languages and how transliteration works and pronunciation.

Also, Ilia was born in the US of A, his native language is English, his birth certificate was written in English, and presumably it is Ilia (I have not seen his birth certificate )

So cool.

I sure hope Ilia can be used or @cheerknithanson is going to have to knit him hats with different spelling.

 

[el henry]

Ah, don't let Internet big-talkers get you down. All this information about Russian spellings and pronunciation is very interesting. I hope Ilia is reading happily along!

The information is fascinating.

But I don't care if you are Anglophone, Francophone, Russophone or on the phone , the polite way to spell Ilia's name is the way that Ilia spells it himself. (of course we all have nicknames for our skaters, but I am talking about spelling).

Until Ilia tells me he is spelling it differently, that's how I will spell it.

 

[Mathman]

I guess it’s time to put this conversation to bed. But I think that I have not expressed myself very well.

In my opinion the key is respecting the skater. For me, this means that I should spell his name Ilia, the spelling that his parents chose for him and that he himself embraces. Someone else might feel that honoring his Russian heritage by explaining the nuances of the name in that language also shows respect. It is not my job to lecture such a poster on the topic of respect and etiquette, nor is it the other poster’s job to lecture me. Respect is in the mind and motivation of the respecter. Maybe Ilia likes both.

When Caroline Zhang was competing, a few Chinese and Chinese-American fans referred to her with pride and affection as “Round-Round” (the literal translation into English of her Chinese name). I kind of wish someone had done the same for Mirai. Wouldn’t it be cool to hear over the loudspeaker, “And now, representing the All Weather Skating Club of Los Angeles, please welcome… The Future!”

You know what else is a cool name? Shcherbakova. For some reason that initial sh, ch” is a linguistic delight to me.

But my all time favorite name award goes to Iranian-American (Armin) Mahbanoozadeh — “Son of the beautiful Moon Goddess (Mah)” in Farsi. Armin was born just down the road 17 miles) from the birthplace of… Ilia Malinin.

Here’s Charmin’ Armin winning the bronze medal at 2010 Slate America

https://wordstobumble.wordpress.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/mahbanoozadeh-sk8amer-matthewstockmangetty.jpg

 

[ice coverage]

... For some reason that initial sh, ch” is a linguistic delight to me. ...

Off topic: Then I hope you are (or will become) a fellow fan of U.S. ice dancer Alexey Shchepetov and his partner Raffaella Koncius (who are members of Michigan Ice Dance Academy). Top ten placement in the free dance at Wichita Nationals.

The Well Dressed Skater on Instagram: "@koncius_shchepetov at the Free Dance! #prevagenuschamps"

119 likes, 5 comments - thewelldressedskater on January 26, 2025: "@koncius_shchepetov at the Free Dance! #prevagenuschamps".

www.instagram.com

 

[Mathman]

^

And what a delight to see you posting again.