2025 Worlds: Pairs' thoughts and comments

[labgoat]

Can't put my finger on why Hase/Volodin lost

They would've won if the lift stayed up. Lifts garner the most points, but when they go wrong they are the most costly. It is a bitter pill, but the results are actually fair.

 

[4everchan]

They would've won if the lift stayed up. Lifts garner the most points, but when they go wrong they are the most costly. It is a bitter pill, but the results are actually fair.

Just to clarify :

True that they would have won without that mistake
True that lifts are very important in terms of scoring for pairs

However, here, it wasn't scored as invalid. It was just lowered to level 3 and received about 2 points less (including the GOE deduction) than the same type of lift done by the Japanese..

So it wasn't the most costly mistake. Some may argue that bigger GOE deductions on two footed landing for throws for the Japanese could have made a difference too... but of course, Miniki are only responsible for their mistakes and not the judging on the mistakes of others

 

[noskates]

I thought Hase and Volodin were the better team - more entertaining and beautiful programs. And we can all tear every little move part but the judges react to what they see in a very small window.

 

[lariko]

They would've won if the lift stayed up. Lifts garner the most points, but when they go wrong they are the most costly. It is a bitter pill, but the results are actually fair.

I know that they made this mistake but that was the only one and the Japanese made many across both programs. So to me, the result wasn't completely clear.

 

[CellarDweller]

Efimova/Mitrofanov were a stand out for me.

I enjoy watching Kam/O'Shea but they really need to figure out how to improve their consistency.

Hase/Volodin were fantastic, and I thought they might win.

Miura/Kihara were fortunate that their lead in the short kept them in first.

 

[4everchan]

Efimova/Mitrofanov were a stand out for me.

I enjoy watching Kam/O'Shea but they really need to figure out how to improve their consistency.

Hase/Volodin were fantastic, and I thought they might win.

Miura/Kihara were fortunate that their lead in the short kept them in first.

You don't mention my Max, which reassures me

 

[CellarDweller]

You don't mention my Max, which reassures me

@4everchan I promised you I would behave!

I will say, he's very attractive in person, the camera doesn't do him justice! Their programs were good, it was a shame about the errors, I would've liked to see them higher in the standings.

 

[moonvine]

Efimova/Mitrofanov were a stand out for me.

I enjoy watching Kam/O'Shea but they really need to figure out how to improve their consistency.

Hase/Volodin were fantastic, and I thought they might win.

Miura/Kihara were fortunate that their lead in the short kept them in first.

Danny has a broken foot. Considering that I think they did amazing

 

[Blades of Passion]

pairs was my favourite around the Pyeongchang era (maybe I preferred the programme pacing with the extra 30 seconds)

The pairs and men's programs losing those 30 seconds was really detrimental. Not enough room to breath in programs that require so many big elements.

This is the worst quadrennial ever for skating, in every discipline.

 

[NanaPat]

Danny has a broken foot. Considering that I think they did amazing

I'm not sure how Danny's foot impacted Ellie's jump/throw ability, which has always been marginal. If programs consisted of lifts and skating only, Kam/O'Shea would be a top team.

 

[reneerose]

Danny has a broken foot. Considering that I think they did amazing

Was his foot injured before that skate? I haven't been reading up on them too much. I know Ellie knows she needs to have more consistent landings on the throw jumps...any jump really.

 

[pesto]

This quad has been a bit extreme - with the Russian ban as well as post-Olympic retirements, the pairs field dipped to a real low, and I am glad to see the depth returning - enough so, that some very watchable teams won't make the Olympics.

But these last two years have been a bit off-kilter in the top ranks of this discipline. The Japanese and Italians were very off last year, The Germans are still relatively new as a team. They match well, and I think can become even better. But is it me? They often seem surprisingly slow.

Max and Deanna have been down this year after their fab year last year. The Georgians seem to struggle artistically, I think their split focus between juniors and seniors, and their consequent over-competing doesn't help them. Their consistency hasn't been great.

Lia and Trennt show flashes of greatness, I really like their programmes, and at their best they look like they could challenge: 4CC was great, but then, the Worlds Free Programme happened.

Efimova and Mitranov gel nicely for a new team. Please, get something less dreary than Malade and learn to jump. Actually, that last applies to a lot of teams.

Quite a few pairs teams came together since last Olympics. Each year should be a little better for them. Hopefully next year, being Olympic year, will be a corker.

 

[dlarry1]

Unfortunately, this competition continued the trend of dull pairs programs that has defined much of this quadrennial, aside from last year’s stronger showing.

Deanna and Max had a brutal program. They desperately need music that plays to Deanna’s "diva" character, like last year’s vampire routine. Sweeney Todd would be a perfect fit—with Deanna as the killer barber—letting her command attention and highlight her elegant posture and positions, especially in the lifts.

The Germans were excellent, but they need to break free from the generic, emo-style short program music. With their classic look and graceful lines, something like Rachmaninoff would elevate their presence.

Trennt and Lia had my favorite programs of the year, particularly the short. However, they remain too messy overall—not just with throws and jumps, but also in their movement quality and posture. Their choreography is fantastic, so they should keep both programs and spend the year refining the details. With cleaner execution, they could realistically challenge for bronze if others falter.

I am intrigued by this. Deanna has always very much reminded me of Kate Moseley from The Cutting Edge. I agree music can highlight her, but just selecting a storyline that she can play and dominate makes a lot of sense. Remember what Ksenia Stolbova was able to do with Addams Family??

 

[lauramartha3]

I love Hase and Kolodin; and also hope that Alisa and Misa can nail their jumps before the Olympics, because they certainly have that "it" factor

 

[ramurphy2005]

Was his foot injured before that skate? I haven't been reading up on them too much. I know Ellie knows she needs to have more consistent landings on the throw jumps...any jump really.

He hurt himself off ice, prior to Worlds. He got the x-rays on his foot back after the FS, and that it's going to require surgery.

I'll put this here, but I've also put in the US Pairs thread. I have a family friend who is a physical therapist, and she told me that in general a recovery for a broken metatarsal that needs surgery is 8-12 weeks.

 

[skylark]

I'm not sure how Danny's foot impacted Ellie's jump/throw ability, which has always been marginal.

I mostly agree. But on the other hand, I recently watched an old Jamie Sale interview. Someone asked her how she landed throw jumps so well. (this was after they'd retired competitively and turned pro). She replied that it was because David Pelletier always threw her exactly the same way. I'm not a fan of Ellie/Danny's throws (it's hard to be, when they're so seldom successful or at all beautiful) ... but I always think it's worth remembering that all pairs elements are team endeavours.

Actually, this paragraph is a bit off-topic, because Ellie and Danny's throws in their Worlds free skate looked just like they usually do, with falls.

 

[Diana Delafield]

I mostly agree. But on the other hand, I recently watched an old Jamie Sale interview. Someone asked her how she landed throw jumps so well. (this was after they'd retired competitively and turned pro). She replied that it was because David Pelletier always threw her exactly the same way. I'm not a fan of Ellie/Danny's throws (it's hard to be, when they're so seldom successful or at all beautiful) ... but I always think it's worth remembering that all pairs elements are team endeavours.

Actually, this paragraph is a bit off-topic, because Ellie and Danny's throws in their Worlds free skate looked just like they usually do, with falls.

I agree with Jamie. After ten years with the same competitive partner, when I was teaming up with various other temporary partners while we moved around the country for jobs it made such a difference if their throwing was similar to Partner #1's style and his consistency.

If this pair still can't mesh her style on her jump part and he can't or won't adapt his style of throwing, then I would question whether they should stay together, even though they did manage to be national champions. How many times can she land sprawled on the ice before all those little injuries add up to a chronic problem in her post-skating life?

 

[moonvine]

I'm not sure how Danny's foot impacted Ellie's jump/throw ability, which has always been marginal. If programs consisted of lifts and skating only, Kam/O'Shea would be a top team.

He was two footing his jumps. I can hardly see how anyone would think they were not a top team. They won medals in both GP, made GPF, 4th at 4CCs, 7th at worlds.

Ellie’s jumps and throws have improved since last season and I hope they will improve again. Surely they will have someone work with her while he’s rehabbing.

 

[NanaPat]

I mostly agree. But on the other hand, I recently watched an old Jamie Sale interview. Someone asked her how she landed throw jumps so well. (this was after they'd retired competitively and turned pro). She replied that it was because David Pelletier always threw her exactly the same way. I'm not a fan of Ellie/Danny's throws (it's hard to be, when they're so seldom successful or at all beautiful) ... but I always think it's worth remembering that all pairs elements are team endeavours.

Actually, this paragraph is a bit off-topic, because Ellie and Danny's throws in their Worlds free skate looked just like they usually do, with falls.

I agree with Jamie. After ten years with the same competitive partner, when I was teaming up with various other temporary partners while we moved around the country for jobs it made such a difference if their throwing was similar to Partner #1's style and his consistency.

If this pair still can't mesh her style on her jump part and he can't or won't adapt his style of throwing, then I would question whether they should stay together, even though they did manage to be national champions. How many times can she land sprawled on the ice before all those little injuries add up to a chronic problem in her post-skating life?

I remember that remark by Jamie Sale. I also remember David saying that you cant just chuck your partner across the ice; you have to know where she's naturally going and help her go in that direction.

I do realize that the man is just as much responsible for the throw landing as the woman is. I just don't see a foot injury affecting how he throws.

I am speaking as someone who has broken matatarsals and toes several times. Only one operation though, when a toe healed at about 30 degrees off from where it was supposed to be. And even then, I walked around with the canted toe for a couple of years.

 

[skylark]

I remember that remark by Jamie Sale. I also remember David saying that you cant just chuck your partner across the ice; you have to know where she's naturally going and help her go in that direction.

yes! I'd forgotten that, thanks for reminding me.

I do realize that the man is just as much responsible for the throw landing as the woman is. I just don't see a foot injury affecting how he throws.

As I rather obliquely said above, I do agree with you. I just had to talk my way there.

I am speaking as someone who has broken matatarsals and toes several times. Only one operation though, when a toe healed at about 30 degrees off from where it was supposed to be. And even then, I walked around with the canted toe for a couple of years.

Ouch! Sorry you had to go through that.