(If this looks familiar, my first account got auto-banned after I included the link to the foot type chart. Administration kindly cleared me to repost, haha.)
Hi! I've lurked for a while and really love the knowledge and experience shared here. Now I'm kindly asking for some specialised advice. I tried to comprehensively write down all the relevant information. I can be verbose but I hope the structure helps.
I am trying to find an appropriately supportive boot that fits my foot, particularly to replace my current ice skates (men's Jackson Artistes) before November. I'm planning to go try things on in person. Travel is limited but not impossible. I've been discussing this with my coach of course but I'd love to hear more input and experiences.
(Lacking access to ice year-round I have a separate pair of off-ice skates, or "artistic inliners" (women's Risport Electra). My coach does both ice and off-ice skating and teaches me mechanical awareness of the differences.)
Base Info: Adult male 30-something beginner, started February 26, coached since June 26, 170cm, 68kg, located in Germany.
Level: Coach would like me to start jumps towards the end of the year (on ice), currently no ambitions beyond singles. (I'm more of a footwork guy.) Tentatively hopping about right now while collecting and smoothing out my base skills on tarmac.
Weekly Schedule: 4-6 hours average.
My feet
Toe shape: Egyptian or Orient? My big toe is the tallest. The slope of my toes looks like a soft convex curve (more pronounced on the right, straighter on the left). The difference between fourth and pinky toes is more stark (adductovarus pinky toes but they're also short).
Overall shape: Distinct V, heel might be small (I runner's loop all my street shoes), rest higher volume? Slight asymmetry in length & contour mostly noticeable in hard skates that are supposed to fit like a sock.
Home measurements just for an impression of the proportions:
(Method: Barefoot, back of the heel against wall, knee bent, foot under weight, standing on paper, room temperature.)
Left: Length 250mm (midday) - 252mm (evening). Ball circumference 242 mm. Ball width, flat: Ballpark 96mm-100mm. Heel width, flat: Ballpark 55mm-60mm.
Right: Length 253mm (midday) - 256mm (evening). Ball circumference 244 mm. Ball width, flat: Ballpark 94mm-98mm. Heel width, flat: Ballpark 58mm-64mm.
No bunions. No bunionettes so far (slight natural protrusion of my 5th MTP).
Arches: Medium.
Instep: Higher than average, maybe sensitive. Lacing the top two eyelets tightly to secure my heel compresses nerves. Tight top eyelet lace digs into the synovial gap of the ankle joint. I get numb feet if I don't distribute pressure like a goddamn scientist.
How skates have fit
For fitting, I went to a local professional shop that was highly, glowingly recommended to me for their seasoned and experienced advice. The results were... mixed. No actual measuring was involved. For figure skaters it's probably a reasonable place to go if you have some experience and know what you're looking for.
Men's Jackson Artistes in 6 1/2 (Ultima Mark IV blades bolted on, not removable)
(Only available in single width.)
These I am replacing before rink season. I'd rather not they snap under my adult-ass weight during my first waltz jump.
My very first skates. During fitting I relied on shop guidance for fit and support rating. Without experience I couldn't anticipate which pain points would be solved by the break-in. (Only in hindsight did I question the notion that numb feet in skates can be normal, how the hell do I control an edge or even lift my foot properly with numb feet??)
I skated about 12-15 hours in them until the rinks closed, powering through pain and numbness with regular re-lacing. Either it wasn't enough or they just don't work for me.
Pain points: My metatarsals feel compressed and squashed, "bunching together", so my foot feels like it doesn't fully lie on the insole. Fronts and respective sides of most of my toes, particularly on the right foot, are pressing up against the boot (like continuous stubbing) which gets increasingly painful over the session. My feet quickly go numb. (What helped for a bit was scrunching up my toes into claw shape while lacing up, which might create more room for the instep?) Despite the inner having taken on my ankle bone shape, the overall lack of padding hurts.
Women's Risport Electra in 265 (mounted on Atom Mirage frames)
(Only available in single width.)
The women's version was what they had in store when I returned. I was desperate to return to some form of skating and reluctant to commit to something I hadn't tried on, unsure whether the lasts differed. Compared to my Jacksons, they were a revelation: Actual padding around the ankle?? Enough space for my entire forefoot?? First couple sessions I had to wrap my crybaby shins in bunga sleeves against the hard edge of the tongue but by now the boots are broken in. They are not optimal but I like skating in them.
Pain points: Lacing can still induce numbness, although the Comfort last (higher instep volume) + padded tongue are more forgiving. Lace pressure might have grown more punctual since the break-in softened the tongue slightly.
I also chose them too long. I tried the 260 first but felt hard pressure on the sides of my 1st, 3rd and 4th right toes. Fearing a repeat of the Jacksons, I opted for the 265. The 265 still felt snug but maybe by now some padding has compressed. (The shop admittedly told me that it's fine to pick a larger summer boot to account for foot swelling.)
In hindsight that specific pressure was probably caused by the toe box not working for me. On my current footprint on the insole there's considerable dead space (more than 10mm) over my second and third toe where the insole is pointiest.
The amount of heel slip I get ranges from barely any to noticeable, depending on what my feet have been up to. (Time of day, temperature, prior activity, maybe how many lies I told?? I had no idea my feet changed size that much during the summer.) I think that's connected to the length. Since I'm still doing basic things, I feel reasonably secure compensating with lacing strategies and athletic socks for now.
My Goals
- Find a boot that works for me. Since I'm not planning to advance beyond singles, I'm hoping that I won't have to boot up again, so if I find the right model now, I can keep re-ordering it.
- Replace ice boots.
- Might swap off-ice boots for the same model at the same time, or depending on wear & tear. (I would like to keep it consistent.)
- Blades: One of the "work horses", I still need to compare MK Pros & CoroAces, or might go by what's available.
- I'd like men's skates but if that doesn't work out at all I know that black sleeves exist.
Onto my questions:
- Can you recommend brands/models for my foot? The Risport "Comfort" last fit my forefoot well but Electras are also the hardest boot made on that last, plus the toe box topic. (The Risport regular widths in my length doesn't even come close to my forefoot circumference, which concerns me. Is the Jackson Elite last roomier?)
- What support ratings should I approximately be looking for? Are the numbers radically different per brand or can I ballpark it to e.g. 50-70/100? If not the numbers, are the declared jumps comparable across brands?
- Do you have fitter/shop recommendations for Germany? I would get in touch with those in my range to ask about brands/models and check for an appointment.
- Is it realistic to toe punch a pointier toe box into working with rounded toes like mine, or is that too much "fighting against windmills"?
- Can heat moulding work to accommodate a voluminous foot and help with the numbness? If that doesn't work, is vamping a boot/tongue promising? (I'm still experimenting with crafting lace pads. So far they've been taking up too much space in the boot.)
- Do brands other than Edea have black & white boots made on the same last & providing the same fit? There are often way more women's boots than men's boots available in stores to try on. If the model's fit is identical, that would open up some options. (I'm aware the stiffness can also vary.)
Thank you for reading! Let me know if I need to clarify anything else.
Hi! I've lurked for a while and really love the knowledge and experience shared here. Now I'm kindly asking for some specialised advice. I tried to comprehensively write down all the relevant information. I can be verbose but I hope the structure helps.
I am trying to find an appropriately supportive boot that fits my foot, particularly to replace my current ice skates (men's Jackson Artistes) before November. I'm planning to go try things on in person. Travel is limited but not impossible. I've been discussing this with my coach of course but I'd love to hear more input and experiences.
(Lacking access to ice year-round I have a separate pair of off-ice skates, or "artistic inliners" (women's Risport Electra). My coach does both ice and off-ice skating and teaches me mechanical awareness of the differences.)
Base Info: Adult male 30-something beginner, started February 26, coached since June 26, 170cm, 68kg, located in Germany.
Level: Coach would like me to start jumps towards the end of the year (on ice), currently no ambitions beyond singles. (I'm more of a footwork guy.) Tentatively hopping about right now while collecting and smoothing out my base skills on tarmac.
Weekly Schedule: 4-6 hours average.
My feet
Toe shape: Egyptian or Orient? My big toe is the tallest. The slope of my toes looks like a soft convex curve (more pronounced on the right, straighter on the left). The difference between fourth and pinky toes is more stark (adductovarus pinky toes but they're also short).
Overall shape: Distinct V, heel might be small (I runner's loop all my street shoes), rest higher volume? Slight asymmetry in length & contour mostly noticeable in hard skates that are supposed to fit like a sock.
Home measurements just for an impression of the proportions:
(Method: Barefoot, back of the heel against wall, knee bent, foot under weight, standing on paper, room temperature.)
Left: Length 250mm (midday) - 252mm (evening). Ball circumference 242 mm. Ball width, flat: Ballpark 96mm-100mm. Heel width, flat: Ballpark 55mm-60mm.
Right: Length 253mm (midday) - 256mm (evening). Ball circumference 244 mm. Ball width, flat: Ballpark 94mm-98mm. Heel width, flat: Ballpark 58mm-64mm.
No bunions. No bunionettes so far (slight natural protrusion of my 5th MTP).
Arches: Medium.
Instep: Higher than average, maybe sensitive. Lacing the top two eyelets tightly to secure my heel compresses nerves. Tight top eyelet lace digs into the synovial gap of the ankle joint. I get numb feet if I don't distribute pressure like a goddamn scientist.
How skates have fit
For fitting, I went to a local professional shop that was highly, glowingly recommended to me for their seasoned and experienced advice. The results were... mixed. No actual measuring was involved. For figure skaters it's probably a reasonable place to go if you have some experience and know what you're looking for.
Men's Jackson Artistes in 6 1/2 (Ultima Mark IV blades bolted on, not removable)
(Only available in single width.)
These I am replacing before rink season. I'd rather not they snap under my adult-ass weight during my first waltz jump.
My very first skates. During fitting I relied on shop guidance for fit and support rating. Without experience I couldn't anticipate which pain points would be solved by the break-in. (Only in hindsight did I question the notion that numb feet in skates can be normal, how the hell do I control an edge or even lift my foot properly with numb feet??)
I skated about 12-15 hours in them until the rinks closed, powering through pain and numbness with regular re-lacing. Either it wasn't enough or they just don't work for me.
Pain points: My metatarsals feel compressed and squashed, "bunching together", so my foot feels like it doesn't fully lie on the insole. Fronts and respective sides of most of my toes, particularly on the right foot, are pressing up against the boot (like continuous stubbing) which gets increasingly painful over the session. My feet quickly go numb. (What helped for a bit was scrunching up my toes into claw shape while lacing up, which might create more room for the instep?) Despite the inner having taken on my ankle bone shape, the overall lack of padding hurts.
Women's Risport Electra in 265 (mounted on Atom Mirage frames)
(Only available in single width.)
The women's version was what they had in store when I returned. I was desperate to return to some form of skating and reluctant to commit to something I hadn't tried on, unsure whether the lasts differed. Compared to my Jacksons, they were a revelation: Actual padding around the ankle?? Enough space for my entire forefoot?? First couple sessions I had to wrap my crybaby shins in bunga sleeves against the hard edge of the tongue but by now the boots are broken in. They are not optimal but I like skating in them.
Pain points: Lacing can still induce numbness, although the Comfort last (higher instep volume) + padded tongue are more forgiving. Lace pressure might have grown more punctual since the break-in softened the tongue slightly.
I also chose them too long. I tried the 260 first but felt hard pressure on the sides of my 1st, 3rd and 4th right toes. Fearing a repeat of the Jacksons, I opted for the 265. The 265 still felt snug but maybe by now some padding has compressed. (The shop admittedly told me that it's fine to pick a larger summer boot to account for foot swelling.)
In hindsight that specific pressure was probably caused by the toe box not working for me. On my current footprint on the insole there's considerable dead space (more than 10mm) over my second and third toe where the insole is pointiest.
The amount of heel slip I get ranges from barely any to noticeable, depending on what my feet have been up to. (Time of day, temperature, prior activity, maybe how many lies I told?? I had no idea my feet changed size that much during the summer.) I think that's connected to the length. Since I'm still doing basic things, I feel reasonably secure compensating with lacing strategies and athletic socks for now.
My Goals
- Find a boot that works for me. Since I'm not planning to advance beyond singles, I'm hoping that I won't have to boot up again, so if I find the right model now, I can keep re-ordering it.
- Replace ice boots.
- Might swap off-ice boots for the same model at the same time, or depending on wear & tear. (I would like to keep it consistent.)
- Blades: One of the "work horses", I still need to compare MK Pros & CoroAces, or might go by what's available.
- I'd like men's skates but if that doesn't work out at all I know that black sleeves exist.
Onto my questions:
- Can you recommend brands/models for my foot? The Risport "Comfort" last fit my forefoot well but Electras are also the hardest boot made on that last, plus the toe box topic. (The Risport regular widths in my length doesn't even come close to my forefoot circumference, which concerns me. Is the Jackson Elite last roomier?)
- What support ratings should I approximately be looking for? Are the numbers radically different per brand or can I ballpark it to e.g. 50-70/100? If not the numbers, are the declared jumps comparable across brands?
- Do you have fitter/shop recommendations for Germany? I would get in touch with those in my range to ask about brands/models and check for an appointment.
- Is it realistic to toe punch a pointier toe box into working with rounded toes like mine, or is that too much "fighting against windmills"?
- Can heat moulding work to accommodate a voluminous foot and help with the numbness? If that doesn't work, is vamping a boot/tongue promising? (I'm still experimenting with crafting lace pads. So far they've been taking up too much space in the boot.)
- Do brands other than Edea have black & white boots made on the same last & providing the same fit? There are often way more women's boots than men's boots available in stores to try on. If the model's fit is identical, that would open up some options. (I'm aware the stiffness can also vary.)
Thank you for reading! Let me know if I need to clarify anything else.
. I can't point you to fitters in Germany, but at least I can say that you need stiff boots with your stats regardless of beginner status, and probably Risport or Graf would be what you should look at, in the stronger separate boots rather than the lower-level boot/blade sets. With a high instep that gives you pain, I'd suggest Risport's RF3 model. The RF line works better for heat-moulding to your foot shape. Their Royal line is less amenable to moulding, I'm told. (I wear the RF1 model myself, but if you're only aiming for single jumps you don't need quite the strength -- or the price -- of that one.) If you can order a men's pair, then they'll be stiffer and better for your adult height and weight than the lighter women's boots, and therefore safer. I don't know of any brand in the higher stiffnes end that makes mens and womens models identical except for colour.
) so I go for their stiffness. My foot shape is very like yours.
