- Joined
- Jul 11, 2003
I, for one, believe Sasha and Angela are beautiful skaters and among the best in this era, but I do not believe either one is a great competitive skater although they have the goods to be.
Joe
Joe
After Marshall's, What impressions do you have of Sasha Cohen??
- Thread starter Joesitz (RIP)
- Start date
So, don't go because you're scared of the competition? If that were the case, then she'd be better off not going. However, I don't think that would necesarrily be the case. Also, when you think about it, Meissner is no lock with Sasha there. Meissner has yet to put two solid programs together this year. Also, even with her 3/3 in the sp, Sasha can still match a beat her. The Lp is a different story but if Sasha couldsomehow hold it togehter with only 1 or maybe two mistakes, she could still win.
Regardless of her being the world champ, the US skating year this past season was dominated by Kwan & Cohen. They were the stories for the US, Michelle having to withdraw from the OG's & sasha winning nationals and being the top American at the OG's. They are household names a Kimmie meissner isn't, yet anyways. Maybe in time, she will become and get the notariety of Cohen, but it's gonna take some time. Kwan hit the senior stage in 93' and became a household name in 98'. Cohen hit the senior stage a 02' & IMO became a household name this year during Torino.
As for the US holding on to Kwan & Cohen, it would seem only natural because one is the biggest "cash cow"(for lack of a better word) that the USFSA has ever had. and Sasha has built a reputation and name for herself as well. They are proven's to get people out to the competitions, Meissner & others still aren't. And the articles about US skating losing traction when it comes to television, you can see why the USFSA would want to hold onto them for as long as they possibly can. Not to mention, both Kwan & Cohen have not announced any retirements from eligible skating, so why let them go when they have not yet let you go?
IMO also, you have some on other boards asking if the US ladies could totally be off the podium? Something that has not happened in over a decade I believe. It's easier to sell skating when you have a name or a competitor you know is bankable in competition. Kwan has shown that over the years, and regardless of how one would think she'd fair now is irrelevant because of her already stellar resume. And to a much smaller degreee, the same for Cohen, who rarely wins but is almost always on the podium. With the onslaught of japanese ladies and the US performances on the whole this season, it is a possiblity.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Oct 20, 2006
If USFS used this event as a survey for the general public (maybe they really did because of the strange format they used this year), at least now they know whom they should put weight on when they advertise figure skating events or show on TV.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2003
C'mon. Does anyone see a gold medal among the group this season? Get real. btw, the question does not pertain to Juniors.
Joe
Joe
It was pretty plain last year that Sasha does not like to lose. She was devastated by losing to Arakawa at Torino, then was stunned to lose Worlds to a skater 5 years younger than she who'd never come close to beating her before.
It isn't so much that Sasha's scared of the competition but that she's not sure that she herself will be able to win. She's lost her confidence, and it started with her loss to Mao Asada at TEB last year. Her FS last year was never solid, and it seemed to get worse as the season went on.
OTOH, Meissner's FS last year was not good all through the GP. It was better at Nationals, even better than that at Torino, and by Worlds, she was skating it with ease and authority. This season, her FS was quite good at Skate America and just a little off at TEB, but there were elements that were improved even at TEB. I have no doubt Kimmie's FS will be jelled much more at Nationals, and even more so at Worlds.
Sasha has never learned to build her performance block by block and peak at the right time. Too often, she has peaked in the early season then lost momentum when the important events came up. I think she practices harder early on, then slacks off little by little and that may have something to do with her inability to skate well when it counts the most. She relies too heavily on the areas where she is naturally talented (spins, spirals) and doesn't buckle down and work on her Achilles heel, her jumps.
I recall last season that Sasha was not doing runthroughs of her FS during the Torino practice sessions, and after Torino she was spending far more of her time on the red carpet and in TV interviews than she was on the rink, practicing. Her performances at Worlds can only be described as sloppy and careless and much of the time she looked as if she didn't want to be there. Still, she seemed shocked that she didn't win!
Sasha admitted hersefl that she thought the field was weaker at Worlds last year and thought it would be better for her. Less pressure I think is what she said. She should've been stunned. She bombed Worlds-thought all she had to do was show up-and she was lucky to have remained on the podium after finishing 4th in the LP. Had Irina and Shiz competed and Sasha skated like that she would've been OFF the podium. IMO she expected to be given the gold despite the performance.
I'm not sure I would say she "bombed" worlds...that seems a bit strong and should be reserved for skaters that truly just disintegrate. However, she really struggled- I have to wonder why she even went in the first place. I don't think it was her being overly cocky- it just seemed that she thought she could get by with a couple of mistakes given the weaker field (she likely would have won with a Torino-like skate) but since she wasn't prepared enough in turned out even worse than that.
It could be injury, but if it is she's just not destined to win anything. If it's just slacking off, well she certainly learned her lesson this year and I don't think it would happen again.
It could be injury, but if it is she's just not destined to win anything. If it's just slacking off, well she certainly learned her lesson this year and I don't think it would happen again.
Well, Kwan's all BUT "let the USFS go". If it was smart it would try looking into the future instead of clinging onto the past. Kwan has to leave SOME TIME, you know. They won't have her forever.
Same with Cohen. She claims that she wants to make a "comeback" but I don't think too many folks (except for the USFS of course) are taking those words seriously. Even writers of articles seem to indicate by the way they write them that she's basically over and out with skating. ABC had the right approach last spring when they chose to focus more on Kimmie, et. al and just showcase Kwan and Cohen as if they were on their way out.
True, but Kwan and Cohen are NOT going to be around forever. USFS has to find someone else. Say they take your advice and hang onto them for as long as they can. Then after they both retire, who to turn to?? There'd be some scrambling going about and because they chose to focus on Kwan and Cohen, no one knows who the other skaters are! Trouble's on the horizon. Sorry, but USFS did this to itself. They'd better hope this Caroline Zhang is all she's made up to be.
Last edited:
Yes, I think this is true. The USFS has to start promoting its young stars, and that's where the pressure comes in for the new skaters.
Already people are writing off Kimmie Meissner, and she is barely 17 years old, just because she isn't an instant Kwan or Cohen. Poor Caroline! She's going to be the next hype-and-gripe victim, and maybe also Rachael Flatt, who will take a lot of flak for being 14 and looking it.
It's going to be a tough go for the new ones coming up, because they won't be skating in the shadow of the stars of yesterday. They are about to become the Cynthia Phaneufs of the US, and Lord help them if they don't measure up, and quickly.
Already people are writing off Kimmie Meissner, and she is barely 17 years old, just because she isn't an instant Kwan or Cohen. Poor Caroline! She's going to be the next hype-and-gripe victim, and maybe also Rachael Flatt, who will take a lot of flak for being 14 and looking it.
It's going to be a tough go for the new ones coming up, because they won't be skating in the shadow of the stars of yesterday. They are about to become the Cynthia Phaneufs of the US, and Lord help them if they don't measure up, and quickly.
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2003
I'm not sure what a comeback would be if a skater is still competing?
Ofcourse, you are totally in the right.
However, I think the USFSA at this point with skating looking grim at the moment talent and market wise in the US is scared. So, hang onto those proven entity's for as long as their is a possibility that they will return. Both Kwan & Cohen have
indicated that they may return. So, sure, the USFSA would hold on for as long as their is hope of a Kwan/Cohen return, despite wheather they do or don't believe either will return. In a money driven society, this is a business and they want to hold onto proven things that produce for as long as they possibly can. If/When both announce they are done, I think you'll then have them promoting the new stars, right or wrong timing wise.
You are right, the USFSA did it to themselves.
And think about it, the like of a Caroline Zhang pressure wise may or may not be in the same situation Kwan was in herself back in 94'. No Tonya or Nancy and it was up to this 13 year old little talent to carry the USFSA's hopes on her back and get to spots for the next worlds by her lonesome. Michelle could have easily crumbled under that pressure, but she didn't. I think it part because of her great support system & her love of competition. Yet, we've all heard the likes of Danny Kwan speaking of his daughter telling the story of him crying hearing Michelle talk in her sleep about what she "had" to do because of all the pressure. He had mixed emotions about what he was allowing his child to be put through. I think it all comes down to the strenght and support behind the skater as to how they handle the pressure. I have no doubt Caroline will be put under pressure because of how talented and gifted she has shown she is, but hopefully she has all the makings of a Kwan to handle it all, ofcourse depending on how things are at the time. Most likely will not be the pressure that Kwan faced, but pressure nonehteless.
It's obvious that it is what the USFSA does. And again as you said, they have no one to blame but themselves in much of the stuff that has and is going on.
Seems USFS got VERY lucky indeed with MK. I don't know if the same thing is going to happen with CZ but sounds like she (CZ) may find herself in a very similar situation. But then again, I don't think it'll be that bad because there's already Meissner and Hughes, who are currently US Skating (along with BeBe and Czisny) whether the USFS wants to accept it or not.
But I'm afraid USFS is going to tie Kwan/Cohen (especially Cohen) to a string and are going to keep them performing in their "cheesefests" to keep viewership on the up and up, instead of trying to make use of their current roster. I don't think it would force Cohen to compete at 07 Nationals, say against her will, though (actually given Cohen's results when she is not into skating that would be stupid of them).
But I guess I shouldn't put it past them if they're desperate. But if they were smart they would promote the Reigning World Champion vs. the Sister of the (02) Olympic Champion.
But I'm afraid USFS is going to tie Kwan/Cohen (especially Cohen) to a string and are going to keep them performing in their "cheesefests" to keep viewership on the up and up, instead of trying to make use of their current roster. I don't think it would force Cohen to compete at 07 Nationals, say against her will, though (actually given Cohen's results when she is not into skating that would be stupid of them).
But I guess I shouldn't put it past them if they're desperate. But if they were smart they would promote the Reigning World Champion vs. the Sister of the (02) Olympic Champion.
- Joined
- Nov 2, 2005
Every good business know you must invest in the future if you plan to be a part of the future. USFSA need to start building media attention for the skaters that are going to be the players for the next four years instead of keeping a death grip on the one of the last four years.
- Joined
- Jan 23, 2004
I have to disagree. Sasha and Michelle will honor their contract obligations but I doubt at this point in their lives either of these ladies will let themselves be manipulated by USFS.Sasha and Michelle are not kids anymore and I am sure both of them are being handled by very good agents and managers.
Who said the USFSA was running a "good business"?
Kwan has been a player for over the last decade. Anyone would find trouble in letting what that means and what she has and can still bring? Same for Cohen to a much lesser degree as she's been here for the last 6 years. And again, with the uncertainty as to wheather Kwan and/or Cohen can/want to be apart of the next for years is still an open discussion as no one has closed the options. Seems to me, the USFSA wants that instant Kwan/Cohen that they aren't getting(as of now) from Meissner & Co. It's easier to sell a proven "brand name" then build one from scrtach, which IMO the USFSA is stuck on. Holding on to the Kwan/Cohen while lightly promoting Meissner & Co. to the public at large. However, that ofcourse is made harder with the Olympic being a few years away. Remember, as i said, both Kwan and Cohen became really big house hold names to the public at large after the Olympics of Nagano & Torino.
ITA!
Michelle Kwan has more than already shown to the USFSA/ISU/Fans & public at large that she is going to do what she feels is right for her. Remember her still refusing to do the GPF that one year where she actually qualified with having only won or compeated in one competition? Cinquanta(sp?) said it was "Paramount" that she compete! She ofcourse held her ground, and they tried to make stiffer rules, just for her.Well, for everyone, but they came about because of her. IIRC, something about not being able to do "Cheesefest" competitions if she was not going to do the GP events or something like that. I'm sure someone else knows the specifics. Point being, Kwan won't allow herself to be manipulated by the USFSA, I can pretty much garuntee that. I also do not think they'd want to anger her and risk anything for the time being that could come back to haunt them. As for Sasha, I'm not quite sure, but given her personality, I can't imagine seeing her being bossed around by much of anyone.
Who said the USFSA was running a "good business"?
Kwan has been a player for over the last decade. Anyone would find trouble in letting what that means and what she has and can still bring? Same for Cohen to a much lesser degree as she's been here for the last 6 years. And again, with the uncertainty as to wheather Kwan and/or Cohen can/want to be apart of the next for years is still an open discussion as no one has closed the options. Seems to me, the USFSA wants that instant Kwan/Cohen that they aren't getting(as of now) from Meissner & Co. It's easier to sell a proven "brand name" then build one from scrtach, which IMO the USFSA is stuck on. Holding on to the Kwan/Cohen while lightly promoting Meissner & Co. to the public at large. However, that ofcourse is made harder with the Olympic being a few years away. Remember, as i said, both Kwan and Cohen became really big house hold names to the public at large after the Olympics of Nagano & Torino.
Well, Kwan still stayed in more or less up to 2002, right? I doubt Cohen is going to be that involved in skating up to 2010. Kwan has had an unusually long and successful (for the most part) time in skating. Actually, I feel that it was Kwan most of the time (being promoted by USFS) while Cohen was more like a "runner-up" (though still big). And now that Cohen has emerged OUT of Kwan's shadow, she wishes to move on as well. Like I said before though, there are other skaters besides the two of them.
Similar threads
