Alexandra Paul and Mitchell Islam Retire

[rosy14]

Any federation would want to have three teams to send to worlds who can feasibly make the top 10, rather than two teams who will make the top 10 and one that has the possibility of not making the free dance. Right now, in Canada, those top three teams (per the international judging results, not just the Canadian federation or nationals judges) are V/M, W/P and G/P. I think it's telling that none of the other Canadian teams stepped up on the international stage while V/M were taking a break — they certainly had the chance. Ice dance has been tumultuous the last few years with plenty of jockeying for position and those positions changing year to year.

I have to disagree with you a little in that I do think it makes a difference if you are considered the No. 1 team within your federation. It shouldn't, but it often does. So in that sense V/M's return has made it harder for W/P, but even that is only because V/M look so darn good and have earned that No. 1 Canadian spot.

Now, if W/P were skating their sublime Four Seasons free skate this year, I'd have a really, really hard time picking a favourite, as that is one of my all-time favourite ice dance programs from anyone.

Unfortunately that masterpiece of a program didn't put them in the 1st place at Worlds. Too bad !

 

[rain]

Unfortunately that masterpiece of a program didn't put them in the 1st place at Worlds. Too bad !

I thought they should have won worlds that year (though their performance of the free dance was best at the GPF) and the year before with Maria de Buenos Aries.

Last year it was between the Shibs and the French, though I'm in the minority who actually liked This Bitter Earth.

 

[Ladskater]

This is disappointing news indeed. One of the best looking couples in ice dance. I am sure their reasons are personal. Competitive ice dance is a tough sport. I imagine they gave this a lot of thought. They're young and likely want to pursue their educations. The skating world can be a tough road to navigate. I wish them well and hope to see them in an ice show like Stars on Ice down the road. Well done Alexandra and Mitchell, all the best!!

 

[rosy14]

I thought they should have won worlds that year (though their performance of the free dance was best at the GPF) and the year before with Maria de Buenos Aries.

Last year it was between the Shibs and the French, though I'm in the minority who actually liked This Bitter Earth.

Agree with you 100%, even though I was hugely supporting Anna and Lluca, both because their programmes that year were very good and of course because they're Italians.
As for W/P, it seemed that at a certain point, after GPF 2014, Camerlengo's pairs fell out of sympathy with the judges.

 

[WeakAnkles]

Agree with you 100%, even though I was hugely supporting Anna and Lluca, both because their programmes that year were very good and of course because they're Italians.
As for W/P, it seemed that at a certain point, after GPF 2014, Camerlengo's pairs fell out of sympathy with the judges.

Skate Detroit just seemed to lose their mojo at that point. Rather than create their own style, it seems like they forced a more "arty" approach, heavily influenced by the Montreal school, on their teams which simply did not suit them. Even H/D's 'hip hop' came across as pretentious. H/B's Theory of Everything was too much telling and story and don't get me started on the last two FDs for W/P. But this year, with H/B, now their number one team, they've gone back to basics. And lo! H/B are back in the discussion. Doesn't take much to see there's A Lesson To Be Learned there.

 

[Ice Dance]

I don't agree at all. I think Camerlengo's choreography can be so impressive, and it doesn't feel like Montreal to me. P&I and H&B are definitely soft & flowy teams, but W&P aren't at all. And H&D had more diversity while they were there than they do now.

Change is quite common for teams who feel they aren't progressing. There's usually a big influx of dancers every time a new dance coach comes out with a top team. And then people move on as soon as the next new dance coach comes out with a top team. (It's crowded & the lower teams feel like they aren't getting enough attention).

But there's also usually an ebb & flow. Once the numbers drop then someone else comes in.

I think the problem at this particular rink is the uncertainty in the relationship. They made their name based on the coaching & choreo of both Camerlengo & Krylova. If that relationship is not long term then it's hard for young teams to know if moving there is a long-term commitment.

 

[chuckm]

Hawayek / Baker stayed with Krylova, and they've had their best season yet.

 

[nevergonnadance]

Of all the lyrical-ish free dances competed this season, for my money Hawayek /Baker's is by far the best. As skaters they are not yet competitive with Virtue & Moir or the Shibs, but they're improving. Their free dance choreography is divine, and I'd take one program like that over ten from Montreal. It's performed beautifully too.

 

[Weathergal]

I don't agree at all. I think Camerlengo's choreography can be so impressive, and it doesn't feel like Montreal to me. P&I and H&B are definitely soft & flowy teams, but W&P aren't at all. And H&D had more diversity while they were there than they do now.

Change is quite common for teams who feel they aren't progressing. There's usually a big influx of dancers every time a new dance coach comes out with a top team. And then people move on as soon as the next new dance coach comes out with a top team. (It's crowded & the lower teams feel like they aren't getting enough attention).

But there's also usually an ebb & flow. Once the numbers drop then someone else comes in.

I think the problem at this particular rink is the uncertainty in the relationship. They made their name based on the coaching & choreo of both Camerlengo & Krylova. If that relationship is not long term then it's hard for young teams to know if moving there is a long-term commitment.

I'm confused by this. Are Krylova and Camerlengo no longer coaching together and/or not married anymore? Loved watching them coach together and they seemed like such a nice couple so hope that's not the case

 

[Ice Dance]

Hawayek / Baker stayed with Krylova, and they've had their best season yet.

Yep. Definitely benefiting from more time & attention and becoming number one in the rink.

I'm confused by this. Are Krylova and Camerlengo no longer coaching together and/or not married anymore? Loved watching them coach together and they seemed like such a nice couple so hope that's not the case

I believe not married anymore. There was a lot of speculation over the summer that she was leaving the rink. But she and Camerlengo put out a statement recently that says they are coaching together and make a good coaching team. Something along those lines.

 

[Weathergal]

Yep. Definitely benefiting from more time & attention and becoming number one in the rink.



I believe not married anymore. There was a lot of speculation over the summer that she was leaving the rink. But she and Camerlengo put out a statement recently that says they are coaching together and make a good coaching team. Something along those lines.

Thanks for the info. Aww sad to hear that if it is the case. I know they have children, too. Wishing them the best.

 

[Mango]

I'm sorry to see these two go. But I understand their reasons.

I'm still seeing Tessa & Scott being blamed for people like Orford & Hill retiring. I'm sure they were part of the problem but the surely you can see the situation was more complex than that.

Orford & Hill were 5th at Nationals. They had not only the top 3 teams currently to deal with, but Paradis/Ouellette and Paul/Islam in their way as well. They were the first to retire, likely thinking they would wind up 6th at Nationals. If I recall correctly Nicole finished her studies this summer. So she could transition to further studies or employment.

Then came Poulin/Servant's retirement. They may have had similar thoughts about their placement at Nationals. So they retired peacefully.

Then came Paradis/Ouellette. Neither of whom has retired officially, but they have split. I am not 100% sure what the reasoning was here because they were closer to the podium than others. But it didn't seem to be working out for them anymore.

Now we have Paul/Islam. Who weren't progressing, and would be 4th at best at Nationals. They've got better things in to do in life, and they've decided to move on. Good for them for making a prudent decision.

Now if the order of splits/retirements had changed, and Orford/Hill had known the teams ahead of them would be bowing out, perhaps they would not have retired.

There is also the dilemma of lack of opportunities. Only the top 3 get to go to Worlds, 4CC, and the Olympics. But here's the thing. Virtue/Moir, Weaver/Poje, and Gilles/Poirier have all dealt with this situation. Virtue/Moir missed the 2006 Olympics. Weaver/Poje missed the 2010 Olympics. Gilles/Poirier missed the 2014 Olympics. None of these teams gave up. They all persevered. Along the way there's been injuries and a few surgeries too. And now they are the top teams in Canada.

These teams who retired or split could not, for various reasons, stick around to wait until the field opens up. And that's fine. There's also nothing stopping any of them, as far as I know, from coming back in 2018 if they so desire. Or even finding new partners at that time. One of the (brave) teams who's made a come back to skating in a new partnership this season is Sarah Arnold/Thomas Williams. Williams is Nicole Orford's former partner. Sarah came back after many years of coaching. So there's hope for those who'd like to return.

 

[Skater Boy]

Thanks for the info. Aww sad to hear that if it is the case. I know they have children, too. Wishing them the best.

As long as their skating genius is not effected. I wonder if skating couples have the same percentage of staying together or less than the rest of the world? I guess we hear more of the break ups than those staying together but maybe it mirrors the world stats? Western world I guess I am looking at.

Together the protopopovs, Meno and Sand?, Klimova and Ponomarenko, Zimmerman and the Italian lady skater, The british female champion by default and the Belgium champ sorry I don't know their names, V and T, G and G (death doesn't count), Shen and Zhou, Bereshnaya and Cousins?, Kulik and Gordeeva, I am sure there are tonnes more - though some marriages are relatively new.

Divorces/splits
Sale and Pelletier, Valova and Vasiliev, Bechke and Petrov, Christopher Dean and Duchesnay, Dean and Trenary, Usova and Zhulin,

 

[Skater Boy]

I think the next issue is while the US keeps on producing world threats Canada may be in trouble if Gilles and Porier don't continue into the next oly cycle. I think V and M and W and P will be gone for sure - though maybe W andP will stay on for a world title opportunity for a year or two. Right now it seems the French team P and C v. V and M for oly and world gold. The Shibs Sibs seem to be anointed bronze. I do feel sorry for W and P - so close to a world title and now they seem to be slipping further and further away out of the top 5. Ice is so slippery. But the Americans have 3 really good teams, once can sense one or two Russian teams will make a move upwards and you have the French and V and M. so little room that as I prediced W and P or the Italians will slide down the list. That doesn't include a team with huge potential- G and P. Skating is expensive and time consuming. Unless you are a top team or inheritantly wealthy you can see how teams may bow out if they do not see a path to the olympics or at least a national medal.

 

[TGee]

I think the next issue is while the US keeps on producing world threats Canada may be in trouble if Gilles and Porier don't continue into the next oly cycle. I think V and M and W and P will be gone for sure - though maybe W andP will stay on for a world title opportunity for a year or two. Right now it seems the French team P and C v. V and M for oly and world gold. The Shibs Sibs seem to be anointed bronze. I do feel sorry for W and P - so close to a world title and now they seem to be slipping further and further away out of the top 5. Ice is so slippery. But the Americans have 3 really good teams, once can sense one or two Russian teams will make a move upwards and you have the French and V and M. so little room that as I prediced W and P or the Italians will slide down the list. That doesn't include a team with huge potential- G and P. Skating is expensive and time consuming. Unless you are a top team or inheritantly wealthy you can see how teams may bow out if they do not see a path to the olympics or at least a national medal.

Costs, funding and the relatively few training sites in Canada are definitely factors.

With the Canadian dollar down relative to the US, the cost of training in the US has gone up by more than a third for Canadians in this quadrennial.

And while the Montreal school of international ice dance is a top elite centre, they and the Carol Lane school cannot take everyone. Weaver/Poje reportedly were not able to find a fit to return to train in Canada, and that's a serious limitation from a system-wide perspective. Looks as though we need some of the other ice dance centres in Canada to come up to elite international level.

As I posted on the State of Canadian skating thread (where we've been trying to relocate this discussion without much success), there have been some strong signals that a general increase funding and tuition assistance under Canada's Athlete Assistance Program may be in the works. We'll need to wait until Canada's Minister of Finance brings down the federal Budget in late February or early March to know if this is really happening and how significant the increase would be.

 

[olayolay]

I find it hard to believe Weaver/Poje went to Montreal for coaching and got turned down by Marie-France. Why would they go to a place that is coaching their chief domestic rivals?

 

[Crossover]

Wow a lot of info are mentioned in this thread.
That makes sense why Camerlengo and Krylova didn't sit together in KnC zone.

 

[rosy14]

Yep. Definitely benefiting from more time & attention and becoming number one in the rink.



I believe not married anymore. There was a lot of speculation over the summer that she was leaving the rink. But she and Camerlengo put out a statement recently that says they are coaching together and make a good coaching team. Something along those lines.

I'm very surprised about that. I saw pictures of them in Italy, in Summer, with kids having fun, probably on a lake or at see.
Perhaps they had some marriage problems, it can happen to every married couple, and then they "made peace". Hopefully for the kids.
Oh, we'll see if they come together at Euros or Worlds.

And by the way I find their choreos totally different from Montreal's.

 

[rosy14]

Wow a lot of info are mentioned in this thread.
That makes sense why Camerlengo and Krylova didn't sit together in KnC zone.

Oh, not sitting toghether can't be always a sign: in previos years too sometimes there was only Anjelika or Pasquale, especially for minor competitions such as Challenger Series or when competitions was in far away places like Peking or Nagano.
But I was surprised not to see any of them in CoC, because a Chinese couple trains with them, as far as I know.

 

[rosy14]

I find it hard to believe Weaver/Poje went to Montreal for coaching and got turned down by Marie-France. Why would they go to a place that is coaching their chief domestic rivals?

I don't believe that. Apparently they went directly to Morozov in his training place in NJ. And from there to Moscow.
And if Canadian dollar is too low to American dollar, it's even weaker to Euro and Ruble. And Moscow is quite expensive, at least for European standards.