Sorry, but I think that's an absolutely terrible precedent to set. Yes, Alyssa was representing the USA, but skating is not and will never really be a team sport. A skater isn't going to be pulled out and a replacement from the bench sent in, even in the case of an injury. Pulling out to spare yourself embarrassment? What kind of role model would that be for an athlete at any level? What and who would define embarrassment? No longer would the chant be that "when the going gets tough the tough get going" but, "If you don't do well in the short, you can always withdraw (give up)." I can just envision the can of worms it would open at the lower levels. Coaches would have to change their tactic from the confidence building "Go out there and show everyone what you are made of" to "OK, I guess since you can't make it in the top...whatever number...you can stop now." Part of learning how to compete is learning that you keep going pretty much no matter what. How many skaters would we have left if, while they are learning to compete, they focused on whether they were embarrassing themselves (or their coaches or their parents) or if they knew they could just give up and quit during the competition? It's not that I haven't seen this happen, but in my experience, those competitors are always looked upon very, very poorly.
Alissa Czisny plans to compete next season
- Thread starter Selene
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Sorry, but I think that's an absolutely terrible precedent to set. Yes, Alyssa was representing the USA, but skating is not and will never really be a team sport. A skater isn't going to be pulled out and a replacement from the bench sent in, even in the case of an injury. Pulling out to spare yourself embarrassment? What kind of role model would that be for an athlete at any level? What and who would define embarrassment? No longer would the chant be that "when the going gets tough the tough get going" but, "If you don't do well in the short, you can always withdraw (give up)." I can just envision the can of worms it would open at the lower levels. Coaches would have to change their tactic from the confidence building "Go out there and show everyone what you are made of" to "OK, I guess since you can't make it in the top...whatever number...you can stop now." Part of learning how to compete is learning that you keep going pretty much no matter what. How many skaters would we have left if, while they are learning to compete, they focused on whether they were embarrassing themselves (or their coaches or their parents) or if they knew they could just give up and quit during the competition? It's not that I haven't seen this happen, but in my experience, those competitors are always looked upon very, very poorly.
Alissa has been competing as a Senior since 2002. If she hasn't learned how to compete in the last 11 years, then she never will learn.
Alissa had to have recorgnized since Challenge Cup and the practices leading up to the Worlds SP that nothing was working for her as far as jumping was concerned. Since she hasn't cited injury as a reason for her disastrous FS performance, she may have done severe damage to her international reputation by having skated that FS.
Yes, she could have withdrawn after the SP. Other top skaters have done so after a particularly bad SP performance, and it wasn't held against them. Sometimes it's better to concede that this just wasn't your day.
Alissa had to have recorgnized since Challenge Cup and the practices leading up to the Worlds SP that nothing was working for her as far as jumping was concerned. Since she hasn't cited injury as a reason for her disastrous FS performance, she may have done severe damage to her international reputation by having skated that FS.
Yes, she could have withdrawn after the SP. Other top skaters have done so after a particularly bad SP performance, and it wasn't held against them. Sometimes it's better to concede that this just wasn't your day.
Perfect analogy
Examples, please.
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Evgeni Plushenko, 2005 Worlds. Skated a mediocre SP, then withdrew from the LP citing injury. But Plushenko was indeed injured, because he did end up getting surgery soon after.
But based on how...less than spectacular the LP skates turned out to be, Plush probably could've won even when he wasn't skating his best.
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Didn't Joubert pull out of the LP a couple of times last season? Not that I think it would necessarily have been the right thing for Alissa to do.
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Johnny Weir at US Nationals. Can't remember which year
I think he hurt himself at the beginning of his LP, crashing into the boards on some simple stroking.
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perfect analogy? A team sport can't be compared to an individual effort! So there is halftime, and several players are going to try to make it a better second half.
If you can't compete after trying since 2002, then she should have withdrawn given challenge cup, and then the sp. It would have saved her a lot of embarrassment. I supose there was an outside miracle chance that she could have skated well, very well, a miracle from our prayers and pulled up to 9th place. I think Ashley should have had the silver medal. Then Alissa would have had to get 11th spot to get our third spot back. She was our best hope due to how CoP over rewards skating skills. She really only had to land a couple triples -maybe 1 combination. From a national champion, it isn't much to ask, is it?
It is shame Flatt is not respected by intl judges, due to her body. Her Fireboard at Nationals was better than Alissa's performance. Zhang did two amazing skates at Nationals. She deserved higher scores than Alissa. Zhang was amazing. She does not have long legs, so her stroking looks kind of choppy, and she was a bit slow, as she concentrated on her jumps. She isn't this tall, leggy beauty with fast spins, except for the pearl which was lovely. Her 3l/3l was awesome. I hope that they change the rules and decide to make a decision about the World team before worlds, taking horrible skates like CC into consideration. After all, Alissa was gifted 2nd place. A system that lets you fall twice but rewards your so called superior SS is bizarre. It is aggravating when Chan wins with multiple errors due to the points he wracks up on PCS.
I guess we don't have to worry, I can't imagine USFS/judging panel making it easy on Alissa ever again. Only a crazy bunch with negligee fever would get her on a world team again unless she has been skating clean at her GP and Nationals. And that is unlikely. I don't see how anyone expects her to blow this off and become a different person by next season.
It just seems an exercise in futility/boredom to say she should retire "only" when "ready." If 22nd place doesn't make her feel ready, I don't know what would. But you know, she may just be waiting til before next season's first (and only I hope) GP assignmnet, and then withdraw due to injury. The more I think from her shoes, I think she just does not want to immediately say, I'm done in that post WC interview. People will be forgetting her WC skating, and an "injury" early on will engender some sympathy/support from her few remaining ubers.
I am really expecting very good, if not perfect skates from Ashley and Caroline is sailing in with a rebuilt ship. She will be improved in her basics. I think we have seen permanent change in her skating. I think Agnes will work hard on her confidence. He SP this year was fabulous. I am so hoping she can show us she can do a good LP. I hope USFS gets behind her. And it looks very promising for Grace Gold. So we definitely have skaters who can blow past a tentative, mistake ridden Alissa program. If she is skating really poorly of competes badly at ger GP event, I think an injury announcement will come. I refuse to believe she wants to go to Nationals to bomb. I see three skaters easily blowing past her and that isn't even considering Mirai might actually skate well with the changes of coaching/work ethic -she's bound to immprove after getting out of the car 4 hours daily. This should be an improvement. Maybe she won't have a Lori Nichols program, but look what Leonova does with horrible Morozov LP because she really loves to skate. If Mirai decides skating is where she wants to be- we can see a rebirth a la C Zhang. R Flatt has said she will change her regime. Even Flatt's Firebird LP should have taken second.
So, there is lots of potential for US ladies next year. It isn't like they will feel Allissa is their best hope any longer for good placement due to PCS scores. With the booing of Chan is France, it will accelerate changes needed in CoP scoring. Alissa is looking for the best way to salvage her pride and all but destroyed reputation as a competitor, and she has months to figure how best to do that. An invite for SOI's full tours could make competing "impossible." I think we are just hearing post apocalyptic brave words from Alissa, but my gut is now saying she is doing damage control. Easy to talk thus if you know you are going to not *really* comeback.
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Yeah but didn't he admit in his tell all book that he w/d because he was embarrassed or am I just imagining this???
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he fell on a jump - 3a I believe - and one leg went one way and the other leg the other way... he could barely stand up straight.
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Oh yeah that's right. Either way he didn't just quit after the SP.
I already mentioned that there weren't replacements that can go in for a skater, but the time between the Short and Long could be viewed as "half time." The point is that there isn't a comparable sport, is there? A team could be getting slaughtered, but they still come out and finish the game. In tennis, does a player being shut out walk off the court?
It seems that you want it both ways. So, either skating at Worlds is a "team" sport and Alyssa should have pulled out for the good of the old USA or it's an individual sport where you finish what you started. Pulling out for injury is one thing (I haven't had time to look up the reported withdrawals of Joubert or Miki), but I, for one, would not like to see withdrawal as an acceptable option whenever. (For example, I'm glad Kurt didn't withdraw after his Olympic short even though he knew he could never medal.)
Should new rules be put in place regarding monitoring and replacements? Possibly. Ha! Maybe new rules should include allowing skating in tandem. The first alternate for each discipline goes to the event and can "pinch hit" if needed.
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I believe that at 2002 Worlds Maria Butyrskaya withdrew after finishing sixth in her qualifying group and did not skate the short program.
At 2002 Skate America Alexei Yagudin won the short program, then took the ice in costume for the long to honor the audience, announcing that he could not continue. He retired from competitive skating the next week, if I remember correctly.
At 2002 Skate America Alexei Yagudin won the short program, then took the ice in costume for the long to honor the audience, announcing that he could not continue. He retired from competitive skating the next week, if I remember correctly.
Thanks for the examples. Interesting about the (contrary) circumstances with Yagudin. Was this right before his surgery? What was said about Butyrskaya withdrawing (before the actual event started)?
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- Jun 16, 2010
Very true. I expect Czisny's international PCS to go way down next season, even if she has one of her better performances, let alone for her typically flawed ones. Worlds will have damaged her reputation a great deal, especialy with a slew of youngsters coming up, and numerous improving veterans. If the international judges drop her PCS substantialy as I predict they will, it will make it all the easier for the USFSA to dump her altogether come Nationals next year.
It still looks like all the withdrawals between events were due to injury or illness, including Miki and Joubert. There have been many withdrawals before the start of events, of course. Just sayin' that quitting/giving up goes against the grain for most competitors. There's no failure except not trying is many a coaches' mantra.
