All Things Ice Dance: Canadian

[Macassar88]

The programs would not be great, no matter how well they were skated, if the choreography was not good in the first place.

If you don't mind my asking, who do you consider a great ice-dance choreographer, amongst today's choreographers? Other than Camerlengo, I can't think of any. I love Christopher Dean's work but I'm not sure how well his "no changes" philosphy works. Programs need to grow throughout the season and his rules don't work well with that.

I was thinking of Camerlengo and Dean mainly. I never knew that Dean had a no change policy. Also, I really like Shpilband's choreography. Looking back at Meryl and Charlie's 2011 FD, it was challenging with very complex choreography and transitions. That said, I think that Zoueva is great, but I think that they should challenge themselves by going to others so they can grow further.

 

[Tonichelle]

didn't the "no changes" policy happen after Kwan butchered the Bolero program he gave her?

 

[chuckm]

"Bolero" was Kwan's program the last year she was able to skate at US Nationals. She was already suffering quite a bit of pain from her hip and wasn't able to do all the jumps (especially the 3 loop) she used to do with ease. Her spins had also become more limited. If she changed Dean's program, it may have been necessary due to her physical limitations.

 

[Dragonlady]

didn't the "no changes" policy happen after Kwan butchered the Bolero program he gave her?

No, I think he's always had that policy. I know Shae-Lynne Bourne mentioned it when they were skating his "Meet Me At the Love Parade" program, otherwise known as "Heart Attack". It was really hard for Shae to skate that program and she had knee surgery right after the season ended, but they were not allowed to change the program.

 

[blue dog]

Well sorry folks I meant the Russians are so uniquely tied with the Canadian results. Weaver and \Poje look poised to bring down the French but i sense all three Russian teams looking to make huge improvements. I do think V and M are capable of winning OGM but they will have to have a great vehicle and maybe separate themselves from D and W. I like V and m's work but I have to say absolutely NONE of the current teams have the vibe, the artistry, the command over the ice in respect to personalilties of say Anissina and Pezeriat (sorry I don't really remember the name); Krylova and Oksianikov who were knocked out by injury, Klimova and Pomarenko, Usova and Zhulin, Bestimianava and Bukin. The passion, the fire isn't there; they just are aren't organic in their artistry or passion. I hope they can work on that.

You'd have to have the rules changed. I think if the rules allowed the histrionics that these teams were known for, you'd see more "passion" from Tessa, Meryl, even Maia! I think it's the current rules which limit even what you can skate to (music must be more upbeat).

 

[Dragonlady]

Well sorry folks I meant the Russians are so uniquely tied with the Canadian results. Weaver and \Poje look poised to bring down the French but i sense all three Russian teams looking to make huge improvements. I do think V and M are capable of winning OGM but they will have to have a great vehicle and maybe separate themselves from D and W. I like V and m's work but I have to say absolutely NONE of the current teams have the vibe, the artistry, the command over the ice in respect to personalilties of say Anissina and Pezeriat (sorry I don't really remember the name); Krylova and Oksianikov who were knocked out by injury, Klimova and Pomarenko, Usova and Zhulin, Bestimianava and Bukin. The passion, the fire isn't there; they just are aren't organic in their artistry or passion. I hope they can work on that.

Anissina & Peizerat and the other teams mentioned could not compete technically with the teams today. Their footwork, twizzles, and high level lifts would leave the pre-CoP teams in the dust. And I strongly disagree that either D&W or V&M lack artistry. They don't fling their arms about and grimace a la B&B, but Mahler was every bit as passionate and artistic as Air on a G string and for me that's saying a lot, while being a whole lot more technically difficult. Gwendal, Oleg and the others are amazing partners, but Scott Moir is as least their equal in every regard. Only Gwendal had better posture. Scott presents Tessa beautifully, but unlike some of the others named, he is capable of being a lead performer as well.

 

[blue dog]

Anissina & Peizerat and the other teams mentioned could not compete technically with the teams today. Their footwork, twizzles, and high level lifts would leave the pre-CoP teams in the dust. And I strongly disagree that either D&W or V&M lack artistry. They don't fling their arms about and grimace a la B&B, but Mahler was every bit as passionate and artistic as Air on a G string and for me that's saying a lot, while being a whole lot more technically difficult. Gwendal, Oleg and the others are amazing partners, but Scott Moir is as least their equal in every regard. Only Gwendal had better posture. Scott presents Tessa beautifully, but unlike some of the others named, he is capable of being a lead performer as well.

Agreed, DL. With a lot of those teams (F-M/M comes to mind), the lady had to be even more dramatic, because the man was not as technically proficient as her. Teams nowadays are far more equal in terms of technical ability. I prefer the presentation of today's teams because there's a certain amount of realism in their presentation.

 

[all that]

Well sorry folks I meant the Russians are so uniquely tied with the Canadian results. Weaver and \Poje look poised to bring down the French but i sense all three Russian teams looking to make huge improvements. I do think V and M are capable of winning OGM but they will have to have a great vehicle and maybe separate themselves from D and W. I like V and m's work but I have to say absolutely NONE of the current teams have the vibe, the artistry, the command over the ice in respect to personalilties of say Anissina and Pezeriat (sorry I don't really remember the name); Krylova and Oksianikov who were knocked out by injury, Klimova and Pomarenko, Usova and Zhulin, Bestimianava and Bukin. The passion, the fire isn't there; they just are aren't organic in their artistry or passion. I hope they can work on that.

They can't work on it. The technical demands of CoP are what kills the passion and fire. How can you have passion and fire when you are constantly jumping from required element to required element, worrying about timing lifts so they are 6 seconds, not 5 or 7, and forced to put things in (like twizzles in ugly positions) that may have no relation to the music?

 

[colleen o'neill]

:think:..You know , I truly don't miss those days. Yes, it's wonderful to look back at the greats of former eras , but My God ! there was an awful lot of purple passion to wade through. ( Remember Dying on the Ice ? Remember the Russian couples lying on top of each other..to make the point that the Duschenays couldn't portray real passion , since they were siblings ? )..And now, when we do look back at the greats , we don't have to suffer through the armies of lesser talents all trying to emulate them... but I remember the torture ( almost made me give up on ice dance ).

 

[slipslidin]

I remember the year both gold and siver medalists FELL but were saved by their superior skills (and passion, no doubt). Or the year they were all statues coming to life, well, some of them might have been gods, But ,by coincidence, that same year we were treated to a commercial about statues in a museum, getting down off their pedestals and clomping out for a coffee break. Absolutely unforgettable.

 

[Tonichelle]

"Bolero" was Kwan's program the last year she was able to skate at US Nationals. She was already suffering quite a bit of pain from her hip and wasn't able to do all the jumps (especially the 3 loop) she used to do with ease. Her spins had also become more limited. If she changed Dean's program, it may have been necessary due to her physical limitations.

IIRC he was more upset that the choreography was changed, not the technical stuff. She went to morosov to rework the footwork, as I recall, as well.

 

[ImaginaryPogue]

1. Define "passion" for me, someone.

2. How much technical excellence are you willing to sacrifice for it?

How can you have passion and fire when going from required element to required element? The best teams can do so, and they do so with a scorching vigour that blows my mind away. Since we're talking about Canadian ice dance, a demonstration.

Virtue/Moir 2010 OD, Olympic Games: What they do here is nothing short of sublime. Yeah, they're weaving together all these complex elements - the stunning curve lifts. The hand clappy-twizzles. But Tessa's dress movements would make any toreador tip his cap with respect. And this straight line step sequence is legendary. The raging bravado. The rising action. The pure catharsis. Look at Tessa's face at the end. She's practically breathing fire. And Scott? Sweet mother-of-Abraham-Lincoln, he's exhilarating. This is athleticism and passion and energy in one combustible ball.

Thinking about it especially in light of Haugnauer's recent statements) it seems like, for some people, the only legitimate personality for a female ice dancer to have IS the DIVA. Which is retrograde, sexist, and kinda boring

Rules, restrictions... these things don't hinder creativity. Isn't Shakespeare's language more awe-inspiring because of the gorgeous iambic pentameter? Aren't Seraut's paintings even more beautiful in light of the exacting scientific thought behind it. But not all writers are Shakespeare. Not all painters are Seraut. We don't say that ImaginaryPogue's writings lack creativity - it's not his fault, it's that dasterdly iambic pentameter he's writing in. So why do we say that here?

 

[Tonichelle]

Rules, restrictions... these things don't hinder creativity. Isn't Shakespeare's language more awe-inspiring because of the gorgeous iambic pentameter? Aren't Seraut's paintings even more beautiful in light of the exacting scientific thought behind it. But not all writers are Shakespeare. Not all painters are Seraut. We don't say that ImaginaryPogue's writings lack creativity - it's not his fault, it's that dasterdly iambic pentameter he's writing in. So why do we say that here?

Shakespeare or not, I love how you worded this!

 

[colleen o'neill]

1.

How can you have passion and fire when going from required element to required element? The best teams can do so, and they do so with a scorching vigour that blows my mind away. Since we're talking about Canadian ice dance, a demonstration.

Virtue/Moir 2010 OD, Olympic Games: What they do here is nothing short of sublime. Yeah, they're weaving together all these complex elements - the stunning curve lifts. The hand clappy-twizzles. But Tessa's dress movements would make any toreador tip his cap with respect. And this straight line step sequence is legendary. The raging bravado. The rising action. The pure catharsis. Look at Tessa's face at the end. She's practically breathing fire. And Scott? Sweet mother-of-Abraham-Lincoln, he's exhilarating. This is athleticism and passion and energy in one combustible ball.
**********************

Ahem...I'm drinking to this paragraph , myself. ( right after I take a cold shower to soothe the effects of remembering ).. Now that's skatin' !

 

[NorthernDancers]

1. Define "passion" for me, someone.

2. How much technical excellence are you willing to sacrifice for it?

How can you have passion and fire when going from required element to required element? The best teams can do so, and they do so with a scorching vigour that blows my mind away. Since we're talking about Canadian ice dance, a demonstration.

Virtue/Moir 2010 OD, Olympic Games: What they do here is nothing short of sublime. Yeah, they're weaving together all these complex elements - the stunning curve lifts. The hand clappy-twizzles. But Tessa's dress movements would make any toreador tip his cap with respect. And this straight line step sequence is legendary. The raging bravado. The rising action. The pure catharsis. Look at Tessa's face at the end. She's practically breathing fire. And Scott? Sweet mother-of-Abraham-Lincoln, he's exhilarating. This is athleticism and passion and energy in one combustible ball.

Thinking about it especially in light of Haugnauer's recent statements) it seems like, for some people, the only legitimate personality for a female ice dancer to have IS the DIVA. Which is retrograde, sexist, and kinda boring

Rules, restrictions... these things don't hinder creativity. Isn't Shakespeare's language more awe-inspiring because of the gorgeous iambic pentameter? Aren't Seraut's paintings even more beautiful in light of the exacting scientific thought behind it. But not all writers are Shakespeare. Not all painters are Seraut. We don't say that ImaginaryPogue's writings lack creativity - it's not his fault, it's that dasterdly iambic pentameter he's writing in. So why do we say that here?

Wow. I don't think that has ever been articulated better.

 

[heyhey]

1. Define "passion" for me, someone.

2. How much technical excellence are you willing to sacrifice for it?

How can you have passion and fire when going from required element to required element? The best teams can do so, and they do so with a scorching vigour that blows my mind away. Since we're talking about Canadian ice dance, a demonstration.

Virtue/Moir 2010 OD, Olympic Games: What they do here is nothing short of sublime. Yeah, they're weaving together all these complex elements - the stunning curve lifts. The hand clappy-twizzles. But Tessa's dress movements would make any toreador tip his cap with respect. And this straight line step sequence is legendary. The raging bravado. The rising action. The pure catharsis. Look at Tessa's face at the end. She's practically breathing fire. And Scott? Sweet mother-of-Abraham-Lincoln, he's exhilarating. This is athleticism and passion and energy in one combustible ball.

Thinking about it especially in light of Haugnauer's recent statements) it seems like, for some people, the only legitimate personality for a female ice dancer to have IS the DIVA. Which is retrograde, sexist, and kinda boring

Rules, restrictions... these things don't hinder creativity. Isn't Shakespeare's language more awe-inspiring because of the gorgeous iambic pentameter? Aren't Seraut's paintings even more beautiful in light of the exacting scientific thought behind it. But not all writers are Shakespeare. Not all painters are Seraut. We don't say that ImaginaryPogue's writings lack creativity - it's not his fault, it's that dasterdly iambic pentameter he's writing in. So why do we say that here?[/QUOTE

+1 - When you see this OD at both the Olympics 2010 and then at Worlds - it is no doubt impressive - the whole package. And you can add me to the group of fans that does not miss the DIVA persona...you want DIVAs - then tune into reality TV...

 

[Skater Boy]

1.

How can you have passion and fire when going from required element to required element? The best teams can do so, and they do so with a scorching vigour that blows my mind away. Since we're talking about Canadian ice dance, a demonstration.

Virtue/Moir 2010 OD, Olympic Games: What they do here is nothing short of sublime. Yeah, they're weaving together all these complex elements - the stunning curve lifts. The hand clappy-twizzles. But Tessa's dress movements would make any toreador tip his cap with respect. And this straight line step sequence is legendary. The raging bravado. The rising action. The pure catharsis. Look at Tessa's face at the end. She's practically breathing fire. And Scott? Sweet mother-of-Abraham-Lincoln, he's exhilarating. This is athleticism and passion and energy in one combustible ball.
**********************

Ahem...I'm drinking to this paragraph , myself. ( right after I take a cold shower to soothe the effects of remembering ).. Now that's skatin' !

No, that's nothing short of great writing lol.

 

[Ravensque]

Oh My. I love your description IP. I saw it live at Skate Canada that year, and even less than perfect it blew me away. It is my favorite of theirs after Mahler, that is, but then that was a different sort of passion.

 

[emdee]

Yeah IP - love your description. Just saw Farrucas again this weekend and it was wonderful.

 

[trains]

The very best teams (and singles) have both. They combine having the most difficult technical elements with skating with incredible passion. If they are sacrificing one for the other then they are not the very best.