All Things Ice Dance: Canadian

[blue dog]

The link works if you copy and paste the url directly into the adress bar. (It;s Alexei Urmnanov in a big red cape.)

http://www.scratchspin.com/1999/worldpros99/fs-3030.jpg



I don't know. It might be easier said than done. Tatiana Tarasova put Lysacek in this. Do you say no to Tarasova?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1wYqsMGO-0

True--and Vera Wang put Evan in what I call his "black swan" outfit (the Firebird costume).

 

[Mathman]

Well I didn't find the Ragtime costumes egregious at all.

Thank you Dragonlady. I was about to slink away since I obviously don't know a cute skirt when I see one.

 

[slipslidin]

The laughable thing is the way Scarborough becomes defensive about criticism. It might be possible to correct some mistakes, otherwise. When you are in the public eye, you invite comment. These skaters do not compete behind closed doors.

For some time, now, I have thought that Virtue and Moir, along with Davis and White in the US, had set a new standard for elegance and refinement in costuming. Somehow, this year, I felt that Virtue and Moir had lost their touch, in costuming, to a degree.

It seems almost unfair to mention Paul and Islam's costumes, because they had such a miserable season. But, their costumes would have been a problem, had they been healthy. They were dark and drab and the fabric was too stiff and didn't drape well.

Weaver and Poje had the best costumes of their career, in my opinion. In the past, they tended to be swathed in too much fabric, as if somebody said,"They're tall, they can carry it."

 

[Taffy]

Well I didn't find the Ragtime costumes egregious at all. They suited the theme perfectly and didn't make me gag, unlike the costumes of P&B at the same event which I thought were hideous.

I'm find the obsession with criticizing anything coming out of Scarborough almost laughable although I agree that some of Kharis' dresses to be very unflattering.

I have to agree that most of the costumes coming out of Scarborough are extremely unflattering. The girls are very good-looking (Kharis, Vanessa Crone, for example) and yet the packaging doesn't do them any favors.

Like it was mentioned upthread, I don't understand how they agree to wear such unattractive costumes, and I agree it's the whole packaging that's wrong - costume, hair, accessories, etc.

I had never heard of a Skate Canada costume monitor. Is this for real? How does one school manage to consistently put out ugly costumes?

ETA:

Somehow, this year, I felt that Virtue and Moir had lost their touch, in costuming, to a degree.

I agree with this also.

 

[Mathman]

Weaver and Poje had the best costumes of their career, in my opinion.

That's because they weren't really costumes at all, right? She wore a pretty dress and he was in street clothes?

 

[Dragonlady]

Why do you find it laughable, DragonLady? Everything in skating is criticized.

The skaters are over-hyped, badly costumed and get marks they don't deserve, andd this is repeated over and over and over again. Oh yeah, and Ralph & Hill only skate to black themed programs. Really, this whole thread is "dump on Carol Lane and her skaters". I look forward to seeing Scarborough skaters at events because I know they will be well-trained, well-choreographed and, for the most part, very well-packaged.

Your mileage obviously varies.

 

[slipslidin]

I liked their short dance costumes, too. Too many people think,''What shall I go as ?", when someone says costume. I thought their free dance costumes were perfectly appropriate to the theme, and dance-able.

 

[blue dog]

The skaters are over-hyped, badly costumed and get marks they don't deserve, andd this is repeated over and over and over again. Oh yeah, and Ralph & Hill only skate to black themed programs. Really, this whole thread is "dump on Carol Lane and her skaters". I look forward to seeing Scarborough skaters at events because I know they will be well-trained, well-choreographed and, for the most part, very well-packaged.

Your mileage obviously varies.

Do you skate?

 

[slipslidin]

It's a good thing we have a canadian ice dance thread. We have so many very good teams in Canada, and many more coming up, it would be a shame if only one or two schools were ever mentioned. There is a real danger of that happening, without fan input, due to the vagaries of Skate Canada PR, and the laziness of the press.

I have noticed that any mention of Scarborough, good or bad, is immediately challenged, as if it was an affront. I have come to believe that this practice draws adverse opinions, and effectively takes over the thread. Once this happens, it is almost impossible to change the topic.

ETA: While I would like to change topics, in the interest of over-sharing, many years ago, I designed and made costumes for an Afro-Cuban song and dance troupe. It was a multi-racial group, because we were in Canada, and the performers who were not of African descent had to paint themselves brown so as not to offend the public. I hope we have moved past that in my lifetime, and hate to think that, in ice dance, themes might be governed by the colour of one partner's skin.

 

[colleen o'neill]

Dragonlady ... I hope you're not putting words in my mouth with your R/H comment ( I haven't really kept track of what others have said ) But I , for one , never said R/H only skate to black themed programs ..just that they go to that well too often for it to be in their best interests, IMO..In other words , it's my hopes for the best for them ( because I like them ) that cause my concern. I feel many others here are similarly motivated...(In fact I think I inadvertently brought on this latest round of discussion by saying that based on hints about their new SD being CanCan, I think they should, in this case, present Asher as "Chocolat" )

I think I speak for many when I say that the criticism of the Lane school stems from the sheer frustration of seeing the same problems year after year..not from looking for something to criticize them for. That so many have the same frustrations would indicate to me that there's some flame behind the smoke.

But to put that aside, and to illustrate my critique of the ragtime costumes...The height of Ragtime's poularity was from the last 2 or 3 years of the 19th.C to 1915-say,18. By the time you get into the 1920's you're really past it.This lovely stuff would be a good place to look for inspiration for your costume..the right kind of silhouette for the era, the kinds of fabrics and how they were used , etc. ( scroll down there are lots of ideas )

http://enchantedserenityperiodfilms.blogspot.ca/2011/01/edwardian-fashion-image-gallery.html

Vanessa's costume seemed to take the sleeves from something like this...


http://www.flickr.com/photos/45803984@N06/6812188375

..which admittedly might fit the early part of the craze, but wouldn't be the best attire for dancing, and then mixed in this kind of thing...


http://www.flickr.com/photos/20796777@N00/3631451674

...which is too late. I do have photos of family members ( children ) from about 1915 in midi dresses ( no such sleeves ) , but using softer fabrics , and a cloche hat wouldn't have been dreamed of at that time.

Now I'd just like to ask people to ask themselves, using which of these ideas as a starting point.. would be most reflective of the era and give the skater the best range of movement ,and be most flattering to the body..and give the judges a chance to see what the body is doing ?

Wouldn't Vanessa have looked better in something inspired by one of the pieces in the first example ? I certainly think so.

I looked those up in 5-10 minutes , easy research for anyone..but no one seemed to bother. It seemed to be done off the top of someone's head , with only a vague notion of how all the components would fit together.

 

[Mathman]

Here is a site that is actually called "Ragtime Era Dance Attire" with lots of pretty pictures.

http://socialdance.stanford.edu/vintage/Ragtime_attire.htm

On the other hand, when you dance to music I don't think you necessarily have to dress up in period costumes from the era when that music was most popular.

 

[NorthernDancers]

The skaters are over-hyped, badly costumed and get marks they don't deserve, andd this is repeated over and over and over again. Oh yeah, and Ralph & Hill only skate to black themed programs. Really, this whole thread is "dump on Carol Lane and her skaters". I look forward to seeing Scarborough skaters at events because I know they will be well-trained, well-choreographed and, for the most part, very well-packaged.

Your mileage obviously varies.

Ok. I'll stop lurking in the off-season and jump in.

Sometimes, there are teams in the Scarborough rink that are over-hyped, badly costumed and get marks they don't deserve. Gilles/Poirier fit all 3 categories last year as the most recent example. I really liked Ralph/Hill last year. They were under-hyped, much better costumed (at least the FD), and didn't always get as many marks as they deserved. I was thrilled for them to have such a great finish at Worlds. In that rink right now, I'm also a fan of Bent/McKeen. I'm not yet sold on Gilles/Poirier. They need to spend more time together refining their lines and edges and unison for me to be sold. Let's see how they've improved in the off-season. I love their energy and their sense of humour. They have speed. But they need the basics together, as a team. And please....anyone who let Poirier onto the ice in competiton with that chest hair should give their heads a shake.

Sometimes, when the same thing is said over and over again, there just might be something to it. There is absolutely no excuse for a club of the calibre of Scarborough to come up with such stinkers in the costume department on such a consistent basis. Bent/McKeen generally are well packaged. With others it's hit or miss. I've watched the Scarborough teams for years. If I had to pick a common thread (pardon the pun), there generally is too much glitz and glitter and general tackiness. Pleather should be used judiciously. So should glitz and glitter. And as previously mentioned, cut and fabric and colour are all important. Oliveira/Hockley, for example, had some good costumes. But who thought the yellow dress in a straight-waisted cut would be a good idea for Oliveira (Junior a couple years ago)? Why do Virtue/Moir always look so classy? They consistently choose a "less is more" approach. The cuts are simple and elegent and suit the music. This makes sense because they are not tall people, and anything too ornate would look like they stepped out of the circus. It's about emphasizing the lines and the dance. Weaver/Poje SD this year was over the top, but they have the size and shape to pull it off. (Wasn't my favourite, but it worked with the theme and their body types.) Generally BC teams are well put together. Harvey/Gagnon have had some misses, but most of the others are solid. Most of what is coming out of Quebec is also looking good. My favourite FD outfit at Junior was Poulin/Servant. Jaw-dropping gorgeous blue dress. On a classical vein, but always unique and creative and beautiful, Lioudvinevitch/Mulder. That black FD dress last year was stunning. Scarborough needs to hire a stylist as a group....someone who will help each of the teams make the best of their physical assets - choose the right colours, match the music, and put together something that is tasteful, hangs right, and flatters them.

I echo others....Let's hear about all the clubs.... I'm curious about all the new teams at Junior and Senior.... What's going on in Quebec? How are Hasegawa's progressing? In BC, how are all the little dynamo's coming along? I'm so worried about the girls out-growing those guys, and there's so much talent there. What about Orford/Williams? Will we see some more complex choreography this year? So eager to see what will happen to Paul/Islam this season, and what impact Detroit will have on them. They have such great skills, but need to see some more consistency, speed, and attack. What will Virtue/Moir come up with this year? It's likely their last World Championship. Will they go out with Gold at home with cracking programs? And Worlds is also in Weaver/Poje's backyard. What will they bring this year? Will they make the podium this year? In my mind, they have been the most improved team for the last couple of seasons. Just a delight to watch their progress. What else is going on in Waterloo and Barrie? We fans are so fortunate to have such depth in ice dance.

 

[colleen o'neill]

Mathman , that's a great site. Theres also a video on YouTube on fashion from1900-1910 , that has a ragtime soundtrack but I didn't choose it because it's so skewed to the early part of the decade, with much less "danceable " / "skateable" styles.. At the bottom of the page I linked you can go to 4 more Edwardian galleries. A very graceful era, fashion-wise.

I agree that it's not necessary to portray the era of the music. For example Wilson / McCall , to me , just evoked the way Ragtime makes you feel ( or made them feel ) ,listening to it..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PoEIZiCYSRo

If you're going to choose an era other than your own , why wouldn't you use the right one , or one that's flattering to your skater ?

( There was nothing wrong with R/H using a non- specific era for "Marigold", which used Ragtime , it was just that the colour was a bit garish and the dress was , again , unflattering to Kharis. )

Have I ever seen worse costumes than C/P's Ragtime ? Oh , yes... Could their ragtime costumes have been miles and miles better ? Oh, yes... Would that have been easy to do ? Yes , as pie.

gotta walk my dogs..

 

[slipslidin]

Thank you, Northern Dancers, I meant to go back and 'edit in' Lioudvinevitch and Mulder. What a strikingly handsome, well-dressed couple they were. It seems a pity they decided not to continue.

I must agree with you on Harvey and Gagnon's costumes. Their Chaplin costumes were good, as I recall. It looked to me as though they marched to their own drum, because Wing and Lowe, themselves, always were well-presented.

 

[cleoc]

What about Noa Bruser / Timothy Lum? I think Lum is mini-Chano-Moir and worry about this girls, who could overgrow him.
Agree about Scarborough, but i like some of Vanessa and Paul outfits (especially in ragtime). And i think G-P had great outfit last season. And they are voidie
Disagree about Harvey and Gagnon. I dont like there costumes. I re,eber i was impress, when saw them first time at JWCh. Why they cant show nothing more? Look like coaches try to made Belbin-Agosto from them.
And its so sad to read this will be last V-M WCh. Its like yerstaday i was in shock to see how skate this to kids at there first senior GP event.

 

[slipslidin]

cleoc, Bruser and Lum look like future super-stars to me, and I hope and pray they will be able to continue together. At one time, I was afraid Tessa Virtue might outgrow Scott Moir, and she nearly did, but that forced them to have outstanding lifts.

Edwards and Pang are another promising team, but they seem likely to remain the right size for each other.

 

[cleoc]

cleoc, Bruser and Lum look like future super-stars to me, and I hope and pray they will be able to continue together. At one time, I was afraid Tessa Virtue might outgrow Scott Moir, and she nearly did, but that forced them to have outstanding lifts.

Edwards and Pang are another promising team, but they seem likely to remain the right size for each other.

Yes, i think Edwards and Pang didnt have any problems with height difference. But it will be sad if Lum couldnt compete in ice dance becayse of his height, because he have a lot off passion and there tango was like they will have sex on ice
I think Wing-Lowe had a lot off good young teams. Look like they were good studience and now use all, whan they took from Igor and Marina in there work.

 

[dorispulaski]

Here is a site that is actually called "Ragtime Era Dance Attire" with lots of pretty pictures.

http://socialdance.stanford.edu/vintage/Ragtime_attire.htm

On the other hand, when you dance to music I don't think you necessarily have to dress up in period costumes from the era when that music was most popular.

In the SD, you did-part of the requirement was to look like a dance of the 1920's and 1930's, which is why Crone is in a middie blouse with a cloche hat, to invoke the 1920's rather than the 10's which was more properly the ragtime era.

Any of the costumes in Mathman's link would be great for Ragtime!

 

[ice coverage]

... I know P/I said elsewhere that they intended to be there.

Skate Canada - COS has posted an UPDATED interim entry list (as of Jul 11) for Thornhill Summer Skate, and yes, Paul/Islam now are on it for both SD and FD.

 

[slipslidin]

Doris, you might know this; Has there ever been a deduction for choosing music of the wrong era? I'm curious, but I'm guessing that leaners must count, as this dance was okayed by so many.

By the way, regardless of all the backing and forthing, those costumes were unflattering and the moustache was all wrong.


ETA: This is a real question, if anyone knows the answer. Sorry I added my unpopular, but sincere, opinion.