Andrei Rogozine

[blue dog]

He reminds me of Yagudin in 1997, who came to senior worlds and finished fifth. Yagudin's technique on jumps at the time was beautiful, but didn't have the finesse of Kulik, or the consistency of Eldredge. He also tended to run out of gas towards the end of the LP. A few years and several transformations later, he was world and Olympic champion.

 

[herios]

Rippon and Dornbush both had artistry at the age of 18. So did (and does) Han Yan.

Rogozine is a jumper --- and his jumps don't get much height or ice coverage -- but he is lacking in artistry and musicality.

Reynolds doesn't have to worry about Balde, who still hasn't managed to meet the minimum score requirement. He missed it at Nebelhorn and again at Skate Canada. Rogozine may be a challenge to Reynolds if Kevin can't land his jumps, because Kevin is not exactly a model of artistry either.

He'll going to pass Kevin Reynolds I could bet on that. As far as the artists is concerned, we'll see how far they will go. Rippon managed a 6th at a depleted worlds, but if he's not going to fix that triple axel, he might have seen his best result already.

 

[herios]

He reminds me of Yagudin in 1997, who came to senior worlds and finished fifth. Yagudin's technique on jumps at the time was beautiful, but didn't have the finesse of Kulik, or the consistency of Eldredge. He also tended to run out of gas towards the end of the LP. A few years and several transformations later, he was world and Olympic champion.

Alexei was 3rd at 1997 wolrds and 5th at the Nagano Olympics. But in essence you are right,in 1997 Alexei was an unrefined jumper.

 

[Dragonlady]

Having watched Andrei at Thornhill few summers I have to say that I was really impressed this past weekend because in the past he was both slow and stilted and had absolutely nothing but jumps. I was somewhat surprised when he won Jr. Worlds last season, because of how bare his program was when I saw it. He really has made substantial progress to skate real programs in the past 18 months, which is not to say more work isn't needed in that regard. His spins are better, he's noticing the music a bit, even if he's not exactly connecting with it yet. Whether he will be the next great Canadian champion, well the jury is still out on that one.

I would rather than young skaters get all of their technical ducks in a row before they focus on their artistry because the skaters who come up with the artistic package fully developed, seem to struggle on the technical throughout their careers.

 

[Violet Bliss]

Not all Worlds champions are pretty. Grit took Stojko and Lysacek very far. Not predicting anything about Rogozine except that he has grit and the jumps so he should not be counted out. If the pretty ones give him a chance, he will take it.

 

[Dragonlady]

Sounds like Kevin Reynolds should be worried. And poor J10 is finally coming back to skating after a series of injuries to find the landscape changed. He's so upbeat and has rekindled his love of skating, being very happy and greteful to be on the ice again.

I have my fingers and toes crossed for Jeremy Ten this season. I was heartbroken that his foot problems cost him an opportunity to skate at the Olympics. I know it's tough to come back after so much time off, given the state of the Canadian Men other than Chan, I really hope he can do it.

 

[chuckm]

I much prefer Jeremy Ten's skating to Rogozine's. Ten's jumps are much bigger and cover more ice than Rogozine's; Andrei seems to land his jumps in the same place that he takes off. Jeremy performs his music, while Andrei skates doggedly through it while devoting his full attention to jump takeoffs and landings.

 

[Dragonlady]

Jeremy performs his music, while Andrei skates doggedly through it while devoting his full attention to jump takeoffs and landings.

"Skating doggedly through his music" is the best description of Andrei's skating I have seen to this point. But I will say that his jumps do have a more ice-coverage than you've given him credit for. I'm still recovering from the shock of him winning Jr. Worlds, given that the US and Japan are still awash in talented young skaters who do have the ability to recognize and move to their music, as well as jump.

I don't want to be too harsh on Andrei. I remember watching Kurt Browning win Worlds in 1989 and thinking that while he could certainly jump, he was no Christopher Bowman, and that I would gladly swap you Browning for Bowman in a New York minute. Hopefully, somewhere along the line, Andrei will discover music and the art of moving to it not through it, as Kurt certainly did.

 

[Violet Bliss]

Rogozine has some time and improvement to go. Jeremy was developing nicely but derailed. I hope he can pick up where he left quicky and be on track again. I'd love for him to be Canada's #2, unless Kevin continues to up his skating and presentation level without sacrificing his jumps. He had some hip injury last year too, affecting his jumps adversely, resulting in very poor competition results last year and making Canada's Men's field look rather bare. Jeremy is all round but not at a high enough level. A lot of criticism about his coach. I see his economic advantages of staying in BC so that he lives at home, is going to college, working part time and training. Patrick, OTOH, has put skating as the top priority and trains in the US, putting off university for financial reasons though he's being tutored in Mandarin and a couple other subjects. Such options are probably not available to Jeremy, a catch 22 situation. He has talents and such a sunny personality that one can't help loving him and wishing him the best.

 

[Boeing787]

Can we say, part of the reason that Patrick is so successful is because his family is better off (given the fact that his father is a lawyer and he is an only child)?

 

[Violet Bliss]

Not sure Patrick's dad is a lawyer or an accountant. His family is in debt. His training is in large part financed with his earnings in competitions and shows, as well as fundraising by his supporters, mostly in the Canadian Chinese community. Jeremy Ten doesn't have similar opportunities not does he incur such high training costs.

 

[Boeing787]

I am pretty sure Patrick's father is a lawyer working for the government. The point I intended to make is even before he became a name, Patrick had had Lori as his choreographer. And he hired Don Laws as his coach after the death of Mr. Colson, instead of some local coach. If his family is not doing well, they might go for a cheaper choreographer or coach and Patrick might not be so successful as a result.

 

[Violet Bliss]

Some families are willing to make more sacrifices than others depending on many factors. Patrick was recognized as an exceptional talent at a very young age, ergo taken in by Mr. Colson as his protegé. As such, he was given as much nurturing as possible at all costs. Some families simply have very limited resourses and if a child does not demonstrate unquestionable talents, it's probably unwise to overinvest. It's true his mother dotes on him full time, not unlike Christina Gao's father moving with her to live in Toronto, spliting the family in support of her talents.

eta. Patrick did have two local coaches afrer Mr. colson's death, including the much hated (by the Japanese) tech specialist Shin Amano, before taking up with Don Law. A great talent needs the right coach in order to realize his potential, probably the most important decision in a skater's development.

Patrick's training with Law was no life of luxury. He shared a motel room with his mother and ate microwaved dinners from the bed. He was thrilled to be able to eat at a kitchen table when staying in a family friend's house when he trained in Colorado Springs.

I know for a fact that today's Patrick Chan has a measly wardrobe compared to Jeremy Ten's! We are always seeing him in the same few T-shirts at all kinds of occasions. J10 works in a fashion boutique and is quite a fashionista.

 

[Spun Silver]

I don't understand. Someone was just explaining how popular skating is in Canada. We saw how full the rink was for SC. And you're telling me Patrick flipping Chan, world champion, world's best male skater, is not financially comfortable yet? (I remember about the motel room, etc. a few years ago.) No endorsements? Not enough fees to pay off his debt?

Things are worse than I thought. We are incredibly lucky that so many good skaters persist in spite of the paucity of rewards.

 

[Violet Bliss]

Canada is a very small market. Skate Canada has a hard time getting event sponsors after the Olympics. Patrick gets to do shows in Asia, cutting into his summer training. He doesn't get to be a TV celebrity like Evan and Johnny.

 

[Boeing787]

lol I also noticed that Patrick wears the same T-shirt(s) for years and he doesn't have good taste when it comes to clothes. Actually that's part of the reason I like him. He appears so manly this way in psite of his small frame and cute face.

BTW, why do the Japanese hate the coach so much? He can't be blamed on Patrick's Champion, right?

 

[Violet Bliss]

lol I also noticed that Patrick wears the same T-shirt(s) for years and he doesn't have good taste when it comes to clothes. Actually that's part of the reason I like him. He appears so manly this way in psite of his small frame and cute face.

BTW, why do the Japanese hate the coach so much? He can't be blamed on Patrick's Champion, right?

Amano is a tough Tech guy and made calls on Mao's jumps. This was probably a big reason that she took last year to relearn her jumping techniques. I stated my faith in her and I'm still sure she will bounce back as a top Lady, if not the top Lady.

 

[Spun Silver]

Canada is a very small market. Skate Canada has a hard time getting event sponsors after the Olympics. Patrick gets to do shows in Asia, cutting into his summer training. He doesn't get to be a TV celebrity like Evan and Johnny.

Well, to be fair, neither did Evan and Johnny do that while they were still competing. But it's still hard to believe nobody wants him to be the face (or body) of their product. Even T-shirts! Isn't he a big name in Canada? (I guess not.)

 

[CdnSkateWatcher]

Chan wears the same $89 practice pants that my son wears, and an Adidas workout shirt; he was wearing exactly the same shirt and pants on practice ice when he skated in Oshawa in April. He did not have expensive off-ice clothes, nor does his mother who accompanied him. Remember, too, that he donated his appearance fee in Oshawa to the Japanese Earthquake relief fund ... even though he later had to host fundraisers to cover training costs, plus, skating in a bunch of exhibitions this summer. Nice guy.

Skate Canada does not provide much in the way of financial support for athletes, and very little at all until they hit the international circuit (maybe a $1,000 bursary for a National level Novice skater ...).

Patrick did do promotional work for McDonald's and the waterbottles with his picture on them were hunted avidly by figure skaters ... and their moms

 

[Violet Bliss]

Chan is a big name in Canada with a high profile as the poster boy for the 2010 Olympics and making news with his wins. Mcdonald's is still his sponsor. I wrote about his involvement with them on the Good Deeds thread.

He twitted about and showed off his cool new T-shirt last year, and fans encouraged him to be their spokeperson. There was some invitation to go to a store for talks and I don't see him responding and he has just that one T-shirt from the brand. I figure talking to a store doesn't mean much, not like talking to the head office publicity guy.

He was featured in the GQ (I think) a couple years ago, looking very handsome and dapper in their photos, and he did a photo shoot for Harry Rosen too. Well, he's still wearing his T-shirts. But I have to say it was a very nice suit he wore at the fundraising event.

eta. He once bragged about sewing up a hole in his practice pants in his twitter!