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- Nov 10, 2009
Thanks for clarification. I've never seen US women skate or anyone comment on their speed, so I had no idea that Mirai could skate fast. (Well...I take that back. I know Caro Z skates veeeerrrryyy s-l-o-w.)
Any Sasha updates?
- Thread starter kalle
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Thanks for clarification. I've never seen US women skate or anyone comment on their speed, so I had no idea that Mirai could skate fast. (Well...I take that back. I know Caro Z skates veeeerrrryyy s-l-o-w.)
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- Nov 12, 2009
Yeah, Caroline is very slow, Rachael and Alissa are fairly slow, Sasha in 2006 I'd group with Rachael and Alissa, and Mirai is pretty fast. Not as fast as Yuna, Miki, and Carolina though
Ahh...okay. Never mind then. Sorry I was testy. Forgive me?
You're right. I also don't think Rachael or Alissa or Mirai can beat Sasha's 2006 Oly SP b/c it was superior to their current performance.
Oh geez, nothing to forgive. sorry I was testy back.
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- Nov 10, 2009
I wonder why some skaters can skate very fast but some can't?
Any technical explanation for this?
And if you skate slow (like CaroZ), is it something one can fix w/ proper training or are you just scr*wd for life?
I'm very curious since I've never really considered speed much before until people talked about how fast Yuna can skate.
- Joined
- May 15, 2009
Sasha at times skated with very good speed and definitely much faster than anything I have seen from Caroline, Rachael or Alissa.
Sasha may have missed jumps but she typically attacked them and did not look as cautious as some of the current USA Ladies.
For goodness sake, Sasha has won more international medals than all of the current USA Ladies put together.
It is OK not to like Sasha - but let's keep the comments about her realistic.
If you see Sasha live? I have a few times, in competition and exhibitions and while she is much faster than say, Caroline, she is slow. Michelle often got picked on for being slow-she was slower than Tara and Irina, but she was still faster than Sasha. I think it has to do with how deep their edges are. Interesting to note that most f the speedy skaters are also praised for having great edges and vice versa.
Attacking your jumps doesn't have as much to do with speed as I think determination. Sasha rarely doubles or pops jumps, more like to pop than double. But I don't think it was due to speed-she just wasn't quite tentative in her approach like some can be.
Attacking your jumps doesn't have as much to do with speed as I think determination. Sasha rarely doubles or pops jumps, more like to pop than double. But I don't think it was due to speed-she just wasn't quite tentative in her approach like some can be.
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- Oct 24, 2009
Well, that's not saying much since none of the current American ladies have won a top level senior international competition. I'm not counting "B" level competitions like Nebelhorn. Also the last time Sasha has won an international competition was 2003!
Edit: I did a little digging:
Top level senior international comp: Sasha 14 Current laides 14
If you add "B" level comps: Sasha 15 Current ladies 17
If you add junior level internationals: Sasha 17 Current ladies 41.
So as far as number of international medals go you would be incorrect.
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Sasha is slow because her edging isn't good and so she doesn't get good runout on her blades. If you notice, her spiral doesn't cover much ice because she is mostly on the flat of her blade. Kwan, OTOH, could travel from one end of the rink to the other on her spiral, change edge, then travel the entire length of the rink back. Sasha has never been able to do that.
Even Sasha's stroking doesn't have much power.
Even Sasha's stroking doesn't have much power.
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- May 15, 2009
I said "medals" and the next to last international "medal" Sasha won was a Silver in Torino. The last I believe was a bronze medal at "06 Worlds.
Again, it's OK not to like Sasha but let's keep the facts straight.
If none of the current USA Ladies have won much yet that is not Sasha's problem - although it might have been a factor when she decided to try a comeback.
Well, it's all subjective, and as I say, we're probably never going to agree on Sasha the way we do on other skaters. (Like Mirai :agree
But since you brought up ballet, I will make this point.
Athletic ability is as important in ballet as it is in figure skating. You can emote all you want and you can be as flexible as you want. But if you can't do fouettes en pointe, you will never be a professional ballerina.
But here's the real magic of ballet: professional ballerinas are SO good that they make what they're doing look easy. That's the magic Sasha had when she was on, such as in the 2006 SP. That's the magic that a skater like Flatt has not at all.
Being "artistic" and having "good presence" is not why this woman can do this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vC1mBBscVHg&feature=related
The artistry here comes from the fact that she does it so well, she makes it look easy, like she's not straining at all. Just like Sasha at her best.
My point is that it takes great athletic ability to look graceful when you're doing something as physically straining as a fouette turn, or a triple flip, or a back charlotte spiral. You can't really separate artistry and athleticism in a sport like figure skating. They are linked.
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- May 15, 2009
Geez, thanks for that beautiful clip. I would hate to have to try that or anything remotely like it.
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- Oct 24, 2009
I did make a mistake on last time Sasha won a medal internationally... neglected the 2006 Olympics. However you are incorrect about the NUMBER of medals... let me quote myself:
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- May 15, 2009
Let's make that medals at the most important events. Olympics, Worlds and Nationals. I may not have said that but those are the medals that count the most for an American skater.
Sasha does not consider GP medals important and either do I.
But thanks for looking up those statistics. I will take your word for it and it is an interesting statistical summary.
It still makes me feel there is a tremendous difference in the talent level of Sasha compared to the current crop of USA Lady skaters. She has competed with the world's best and won medals. The others haven't. You can dig up medals from novice events and local skating clubs, from the girl scouts and so forth, but that has nothing to do with taking the ice at the Olympic or Worlds.
Those are the most important medals and the medals we remember.
I'm confused about what you mean about "current ladies." Is that all of them put together?
Even if it's not you still have to take into consideration the type competition where these medals were earned. Sasha has two world silver medals and one bronze medal. She has one grand prix final gold medal. None of the current ladies has ever won world championship medal of any color.
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- Nov 12, 2009
Well, it's all subjective, and as I say, we're probably never going to agree on Sasha the way we do on other skaters. (Like Mirai :agree
But since you brought up ballet, I will make this point.
Athletic ability is as important in ballet as it is in figure skating. You can emote all you want and you can be as flexible as you want. But if you can't do fouettes en pointe, you will never be a professional ballerina.
But here's the real magic of ballet: professional ballerinas are SO good that they make what they're doing look easy. That's the magic Sasha had when she was on, such as in the 2006 SP. That's the magic that a skater like Flatt has not at all.
Being "artistic" and having "good presence" is not why this woman can do this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vC1mBBscVHg&feature=related
The artistry here comes from the fact that she does it so well, she makes it look easy, like she's not straining at all. Just like Sasha at her best.
My point is that it takes great athletic ability to look graceful when you're doing something as physically straining as a fouette turn, or a triple flip, or a back charlotte spiral. You can't really separate artistry and athleticism in a sport like figure skating. They are linked.
You make a good point, although I have done ballet and gymnastics seriously in the past, and I will say that while strength is important in ballet, it is much less important in ballet than in gymnastics and I would guess figure skating. Do to fouettes en pointe you need strong ankles, but in ballet the goal is to use your quads as little as possible and upper body strength is really of very little use. So if you have strong quads and arms you aren't likely to be any better than a skinny dancer who only has strong ankles and inner thigh muscles. In gymnastics though, all over strength makes a huge difference. Very few top gymnasts are very thin and that's because lots of strength is needed to flip, vault, manuever yourself on bars, etc.
So basically I'm saying that ballet involves less strength than skating at this level does. At the size and strength level Sasha is at, I'm sure she could excel at ballet. However, if she wants to be on par with the top figure skaters TECHNICALLY, she probably needs to be stronger. I know the asian skaters look so thin but they actually are strong. If you look at someone like Laura Lepisto I'm not surprised she can't land more than 3 or 4 triples in a program, due to her thiness. It looks as though she has no fat and very little muscle on her. Sasha is in the same category, she's what 5'2" and 90 pounds or something? Joannie is the same height and weighs 20 pounds more, all that weight is muscle so it's no surprise her jumps are so powerful
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- Nov 26, 2009
ITA
If you notice, her spiral doesn't cover much ice because she is mostly on the flat of her blade. :yes:
Kwan, Yuna,Carolina - good speed, ice coverage and edge control
Mao, Miki, Joannie -so so
Caro Z, Rachael -slow
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It might be obvious to some that Sasha's spiral positions, the same positions which are copied by most skaters today were not based on one postion or how fast she could go.
There is nothing like Michelle's coe spiral - just as we know Michelle could not do most of the other spiral positions as well as Sasha.
Different skaters have different strengths and weaknesses.
I must admit I am puzzled that a skater as terribly slow and flawed as Sasha , with no jumping technique won a decent amount of medals at Worlds/Olympics.
How would you explain that? Was it smoke and mirrors? Were the judges paid off? Or maybe it is possible that Sasha was an elite skater with an elite set of skills? Eureka! What a thought!
Sasha won lots of medals, mostly in the GP, but also Olympic silver, two World silver and one World bronze. Sasha won those medals during a period in which she trained seriously year in and year out and competed frequently.
However, she won her last medal nearly four years ago, and has not competed since then. I think it's fair to say that Sasha hasn't kept up her jumping skills in the interim, as she's done only 3T, 3S and 2A in her exhibition skating, and even those jumps haven't been executed flawlessly over the years.
Worse, she didn't return to serious training until just 6 months ago, and has had to curtail practice on the jumps she hadn't been doing (3Lo, 3Z, 3F) because of tendonitis in her leg. We don't know much about how competitive Sasha's current skating is, because we haven't seen much of it, and what we have seen (the exhibition attempt at a SP, with two failed triples) is not encouraging.
Competitive skating also requires tremendous stamina, and there just isn't any comparison between a three-minute exhibition program with two easy jumps and some "ooh" gumby moves, and a four-minute competition FS with 6-7 triples, 3 spins, a spiral and footwork.
Therefore, it's useless to point to Sasha's previous achievements as proof she is superior to the current group of US skaters, who have been training steadily during this quadrennial while Sasha's been coasting in SOI.
Sasha will have to show up at Nationals and prove she is competitive on the ice, not just in carefully engineered interviews.
However, she won her last medal nearly four years ago, and has not competed since then. I think it's fair to say that Sasha hasn't kept up her jumping skills in the interim, as she's done only 3T, 3S and 2A in her exhibition skating, and even those jumps haven't been executed flawlessly over the years.
Worse, she didn't return to serious training until just 6 months ago, and has had to curtail practice on the jumps she hadn't been doing (3Lo, 3Z, 3F) because of tendonitis in her leg. We don't know much about how competitive Sasha's current skating is, because we haven't seen much of it, and what we have seen (the exhibition attempt at a SP, with two failed triples) is not encouraging.
Competitive skating also requires tremendous stamina, and there just isn't any comparison between a three-minute exhibition program with two easy jumps and some "ooh" gumby moves, and a four-minute competition FS with 6-7 triples, 3 spins, a spiral and footwork.
Therefore, it's useless to point to Sasha's previous achievements as proof she is superior to the current group of US skaters, who have been training steadily during this quadrennial while Sasha's been coasting in SOI.
Sasha will have to show up at Nationals and prove she is competitive on the ice, not just in carefully engineered interviews.
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- Nov 12, 2009
Different skaters have different strengths and weaknesses.
I must admit I am puzzled that a skater as terribly slow and flawed as Sasha , with no jumping technique won a decent amount of medals at Worlds/Olympics.
How would you explain that? Was it smoke and mirrors? Were the judges paid off? Or maybe it is possible that Sasha was an elite skater with an elite set of skills? Eureka! What a thought!
She was the first of that kind of skater, the elegant, artistic flexible skater. Sasha was a breath of fresh air when people were used to seeing Irina dominate. Even Michelle was more a power jumper than an artistic skater (though she was good at both). Now there are a lot more skaters like Sasha, and some are artistic, flexible, and can jump - like Mirai, Mao, Yuna! But yeah I mean if you think of Laura Lepisto, Alissa, Caroline they are more the Sasha type of skater than the Irina type.
As skating continues to get more difficult technically, more and more Sasha like skaters appear, focusing on the non-jump elements of skating
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