Any Sasha updates? | Page 7 | Golden Skate

Any Sasha updates?

I think this is the appropriate spot.

Someone on MKF actually took the time to break down Cohen's consistency on jumps and other elements by percentage. Only major events (Nats/Worlds/Olys) were sampled and does not include GPs or fluff events. This person came to the conclusion that it was more about who she was up against (Kwan, Slute) than her actual error rate that "got in her way" so to speak, and that due to the reduced number of clean performances in the past few years, she should have "a much better shot at getting to the top of that podium" (I disagree, but she would fit right in since everyone else is making mistakes anyway). And an additional note from me: every single worlds from 2002-2006 was won by a bring-the-house-down LP performance (Slute, Kwan, Arakawa, Slute again, Meissner).

http://www.mkforum.net/forum/showpost.php?p=356893&postcount=1

Rather impressive (the level of detail this poster took)
 
Last edited:
Wow, that person sure is a dedicated fan and created a fascinating read. He/she should send that to sasha so she can strategize with it.

I found this most interesting.

There's always been an idea that most of Sasha's error came after the 2:30 mark of the program. I made sure as I watched to record the jumps she did, in the order she did them. Also, whenever she made a mistake, I recorded the time. Looking over that data, I'm noticed that Sasha front-loaded her programs. This might be true for all skaters back then; it's the opposite now though. With that 10% bonus skaters get for putting jumps after the 2:30 most skaters make sure to do their hardest stuff after the 2:31 mark. Anyhoo, looking at my info, I see that she finished all of her jumping kinda early.

For example: 2002 worlds she 2-footed her 3Lz; that was her final jump and I have the time marked down as 2:31. At the 2004 worlds she stumbled out of her last jump, a 3S, and the time is marked at 2:55. It's not bad, it's just an observation I made while staring at all of the numbers.
Click to expand...

This rather validates the point that somebody made here. Sasha's problem may lie in the fatigue factor/conditioning. On the other hand sasha reportedly stayed in excellent shape throughout her competing years...she said that she did a lot of off-ice training. I know when she was with Terosova the latter had her on a strong regime of running, swimming and weight training and that was arguably sasha's best period. If this is indeed sasha's problem, it is also interesting to note that in her two olympic LPs she fell on her first jumping pass was perfect after the second one and in Torino even did a triple in the final 30 seconds of the program. In almost all other events it was the other way around, so her "getting through" the rest of the program after bad mistakes at the begining is a gift of olympic adrenaline and passion.
 
Last edited:
Tinymavy15 said:
This rather validates the point that somebody made here. Sasha's problem may lie in the fatigue factor/conditioning. On the other hand sasha reportedly stayed in excellent shape throughout her competing years...she said that she did a lot of off-ice training. I know when she was with Terosova the latter had her on a strong regime of running, swimming and weight training and that was arguably sasha's best period.
Click to expand...
I don't know if this has anything to do with anything but Sasha is soooooooo small.
 
Sasha seems to be in excellent shape. I would attribute her mistakes to lack of mental concentration than conditioning. She seems like the kind of skater who thinks too much while she skates. As for the 2006 Olympics, she really had a defeated look on her face when she took the ice. It is a shame that she wasn't tough enough to shake off the crappy warm up. Seemed as if she needed to those falls to get rid of her jitters. It may have been easier to skate after "losing gold" than to skate to win.
 
I'm always so grateful when someone takes the time to analyze a skater's programs, because that's technical understanding that I don't have. I can't wait to read that analysis in detail. The one thing one of you mentioned here, Sasha's frontloading of her programs in the 6.0 era, is something I remembered hearing about her both on the air and on this forum. Others on this forum have also mentioned her weakness in landing edge jumps. As for the possible factor of temperament, a friend of mine once said rather pithily that a lot of artistic types are head cases, and who can understand why they get off track?--I suppose that's as good an explanation as any.

But when you think about it, Sasha's a lot less of a "disappointment" than she appears to be. If you compare her with other equally prodigiously gifted but unpredictable skaters--the kind you love to watch but end up crying over--such as Sandhu and Alyssa Czisny, she's actually done extraordinarily well. She's had a career that lasted across two Olympic cycles, and she's been consistently in at least the top 5, usually higher. Two World silvers, one World bronze, one Olympic silver, and on the National podium since 2001, as well as in 1999. Add to that her gorgeous carriage and exquisite positions, and you've got a pretty successful skater. Of course, I hope she has another chance to succeed this year! It would be great to watch her on the world stage once more.
 
yes, they might have but whoever did (put the words in--BENEFIT OF DOUBT) on jumps
She might have gave SASHA the BENEFIT oF DOUBT ON ALL HER Jumps,
She DIDN"T DO Michelle so--whoever did it rigge dthe rankings of jumps (why--MIchelle was NEVER given the BENEFIT oF DOUBT On HER Jumps like-Sasha, irina, caroline kostner,sarah. SO you can't go and say sasha did so well on jumps when she (whoever)did it gave the benefit of doubt when the JUDGES DIDN"T>
IT Smacks down the real reason, and glosses over the truth of how the judging really went.\
yes she did a nice service but-she shouldn't have put in the benefit of doubt.
i don't sasha doesn't skate that well.
 
Unfortunately, all that work about Sasha's previous competition doesn't really have any relevance to her current state. Sasha has not competed since March of 2006-and she hadn't returned to a heavy training regimen until June of this year.

If stamina was a problem for her when she was in top competitive shape after training heavily all season, then it's going to loom an even bigger problem this season. She has had to regain all the jumps she hadn't been doing for the past 3-1/2 years, and integrate them into two programs. That's a huge hill to climb. She will have had just 4 months to prepare for her first GP in Paris (if indeed she shows up there) and just 5 for Skate America.
 
I'm not sure how many high-level competitive skaters we have posting on this message board, but having formerly been (almost) one, I just want to express something of the ease or difficulty of regaining competitive form.

Many of the posters here seem to be doubting comebacks by certain skaters, such as Sasha, and even Michelle when it still seemed a remote possibility. This is based on the perceived difficulty in regaining jumpsnot performed for some number of years, stamina, competitive form, et cetera. What is and what could be are obviously two different things, but this difficulty really is just perceived.

Having trained and competed for about 10 years, and mastering a majority of the triple jumps, I know what it takes to be able get into top form. I was never at the level of a Sasha Cohen or even remotely close, but I haven't been on the ice in nearly two years and I can say with certainty that if I went to the rink and put on my skates tomorrow, I could land several triples after maybe 30 minutes of skating. This is not uncommon at all. I see skaters all the time that may have peaked in the novice or junior ranks skate maybe one day every six months and are still able to perform most or all of their jumps.

Winning the Olympics or Nationals, or even performing well in a Grand Prix event, obviously requires a lot more than being able to land some triples in a practice session, but that's not my point. My point is that comparitively speaking, someone like Sasha Cohen is hundreds of times more seasoned and skilled and that if my twenty minutes of skating after an absence of two years could yield some triple jumps in practice, several months of serious training for someone who has been on world and Olympic podiums would likely be enough to regain a competitive form.

I have no doubt that Sasha could perform as well as she was capable of in the past. Perhaps she needs to perform better than she ever had, but that is another issue. And maybe there are reasons to doubt her ability to mount a serious comeback too, but it really has little to do with her regaining her triples, her competitive stamina et cetera. These things stay with you for a long time. At 25 I'm sure her body is physically still quite able to perform all the most difficult elements. If anything is a factor it will be mental toughness in competition. That feeling is lost much more quickly and is much harder to regain than the technical elements of the sport. Let's hope she has been training her brain as hard as she has her body.
 
What you are not including is the fact that Sasha's body has taken quite a pounding over the years. Yes, she took a leave of absence on her own accord, but certainly not injury free. Training to get back to where she was in 2006 opens her up to all sorts of things, including injuries. I believe you that Sasha could very well have her triples back, but she's not going to suddenly be turning out clean 7 triple programs with a 3/3 and a true Lutz without lots of serious rink time. Plus the ability to suddenly have nerves of steel. IMO, that is more of a concern than anything else. I understand muscle memory is a huge deal in regaining skills and all, but I have a hard time believing unless Sasha was occasionally practicing most of her triples during that span on SOI, that it will all come back in a matter of hours. Michelle said she had all her triples back in a short time, after more time away and a much more severe injury, but obviously that didn't mean she was fine to resume Olympic training.
 
I hope Sasha returns as promised, I desperately want her to win... she has always been my favourite.
Any more recent news?
The analyses etc. are a fascinating read, thank you.
 
With all due respect to your competitive background, jeffgoldblum, just because YOU could get your triples back in 30 minutes' time doesn't have much relevance to Sasha completing 6 or 7 triples in a 4-minute program, and executing them cleanly. Sasha hasn't had to do a competitive program in 3.5 years, and she was never able to perform a clean program at a high-stakes event like Olympics and Worlds, even at a time when her egregious flutzing was ignored.

Today's competitive skating at the highest levels requires linking steps before and after those jumps, adding to the difficulty and the demands on stamina.

John Nicks told Sasha back in 2006 that it would be difficult for her to return to competitive skating after taking off a year, and two years off would make it nearly impossible. I think Nicks knows Sasha better than anyone else!
 
chuckm said:
With all due respect to your competitive background, jeffgoldblum, just because YOU could get your triples back in 30 minutes' time doesn't have much relevance to Sasha completing 6 or 7 triples in a 4-minute program, and executing them cleanly. Sasha hasn't had to do a competitive program in 3.5 years, and she was never able to perform a clean program at a high-stakes event like Olympics and Worlds, even at a time when her egregious flutzing was ignored.

Today's competitive skating at the highest levels requires linking steps before and after those jumps, adding to the difficulty and the demands on stamina.

John Nicks told Sasha back in 2006 that it would be difficult for her to return to competitive skating after taking off a year, and two years off would make it nearly impossible. I think Nicks knows Sasha better than anyone else!
Click to expand...

Well if he can I dont see why she cant... Plus, she has been performing come rain or shine for years now. That builds a different kind of stamina. Oh, and nobody seems to go clean much anymore, so she could fit right in. Also, she has some linkage after her 3sow. Toe turns. Very pretty. Try it , its pretty hard.
 
Sasha had suffered injuries in each of her last 3 seasons, including a pretty serious groin pull right before the 2006 Olympics. The big danger for her in trying to do 3 1/2 years of catchup in a few months is more injury, which will further set her back.

TEB starts in just a month. Let's see what Sasha can deliver (if she actually shows up...)
 
I thought I made clear in my post that I was not trying to equate landing 4 or five triples in an hour of skating to a National-Championship-winning program with 7 triples and all the most difficult elements. I also never said I expected her to skate any better than she had in competition in the past. But could she match it? I think so. My explanation was intended to be comparative. Sasha has more experience; she has been keeping at least two triple jumps trained for the past 3 years; she is a former National Champion. How the results of my two hours of skating might compare to what Sasha could do in 3 or 4 months!

And all skaters have injuries, it's just part of the sport. There's no reason to think that areas fully healed would be more susceptible to future injury. I've got my own fractured vertebra just like Sasha, and a whole bunch of other injuries too. An athlete's body is incredibly resiliant.

I still say it comes down to mental toughness. And in the face of adverse situations, including injuries, we've all seen it's often mind over matter. From the limited videos I've seen Sasha looks in excellent shape; if she wants it bad enough, she'll do it.
 
jeff goldblum said:
I still say it comes down to mental toughness. And in the face of adverse situations, including injuries, we've all seen it's often mind over matter. From the limited videos I've seen Sasha looks in excellent shape; if she wants it bad enough, she'll do it.
Click to expand...

The one area where Sasha is weak is mental toughness. After winning both the QR and the SP, she should have easily won Worlds 2004, but she inexplicably melted down in the FS. She blew the 2006 OGM on her first two jumping passes. She should have easily won Worlds 2006, but had to settle for bronze, barely edging Sokolova.

The fact that Sasha wants the OGM so much is an impediment to her winning it, or to even making it to the podium.
 
Honestly, I don't believe Sasha had a meltdown in 2004. I would point to Nats 2004 and Oly/Worlds 2006 as much bigger let downs. The 2004 LP, she had 1 or 2 jump mistakes and she skated very tentatively, looked scared to lose, no doubt, but that was probably one of her better skates, when the pressure was on. As sad as that may be.

But yes, I agree mental toughness is an issue for Sasha, as well as I believe her not having the greatest edging, solid jump technique and her lack of speed/power fail her when she needs to rely on muscle memory when the adrenaline is pumping.

IF she can stay healthy and IF she is truly working on all she says she is with RA, she is more than ready to be the US best chance in Ladies' Skating.
 
Last edited:
Read between the lines, Jennifer hinted at Sasha taking a spot of the olympic-when in fact she already has one, why--they talk like she has one-her jump repitorie against -mao, yu-na, miki-joannie etc.
her grace and beauty also-- not if she makes the team , she is on the team as the greatest olympic comeback.
Hardly--Sasha comeback will not be the greatest --if so how--she is coming back after skating on tours (notice still skating) no injuries-as of now (i am sure she and others will think of an injury before the season ends or gets to olympicsand nationals. Sorry for that-but sasha hasn't had a year of not complianing of some kind of injury.
Sasha will not be the greatest comeback. (only reason brought up--need the money and sasha name supposedly will do it. Had the chance 2006 blew it when michelle was in--didn't want it. why --i will not go into details.
But still pushing sasha-had a chance of pushing the younger skaters didn't, now want sasha to get glory after Cheated for her since 1999.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Y
Any interest for past Olympic rewatches?
2 3
Replies
44
Views
2K
yfan1
Y
labgoat
Memorable Debuts on the JGP
2 3
Replies
41
Views
2K
labgoat
labgoat
gsk8
News Sofia Val and Asaf Kazimov Fueled by Olympic Experience
Replies
4
Views
936
CaroLiza_fan
CaroLiza_fan
A
Shows that have a concept (story/narrative) from 90s and 80s on YouTube
Replies
3
Views
571
DizzyFrenchie
DizzyFrenchie
A
Skaters who improved their Skating Skills program component over time
2 3
Replies
55
Views
7K
Mista Ekko
M
Back
Top