Any Sasha updates?

[gkelly]

The following ladies have 3 or 4 Olympic appearances in singles:

Laetitia Hubert - 1992 (12th), 1994 (17th), 1998 (20th), and 2002 (15th)
Elena Liashenko - 1994 (19th), 1998 (9th), 2002 (14th), and 2006 (17th)
Lenka Kulovana - 1992 (11th), 1994 (13th), and 1998 (18th)
Irina Slutskaya - 1998 (5th), 2002 (Silver), and 2006 (Bronze)
Kira Ivanova - 1980 (16th), 1984 (Bronze), and 1988 (7th)

OK, doing the research. Starting from the beginning

Theresa Weld(-Blanchard) - 1920 (3rd), 1924 (4th), 1928 (10th)
Sonja Henie - 1924 (8th), 1928 (1st), 1932 (1st), 1936 (1st)
Maribel Vinson - 1928 (4th), 1932 (3rd), 1936 (5th)
Sjoukie Dijkstra - 1956 (12th), 1960 (2nd), 1964 (1st)
Zsuzsa Almassy - 1964 (17th), 1968 (6th), 1972 (5th)
Kira Ivanova - 1980 (16th), 1984 (3rd), and 1988 (7th)
Katarina Witt - 1984 (1st), 1988 (1st), 1994 (7th)
Lu Chen - 1992 (6th), 1994 (3rd), 1998 (3rd)
Lenka Kulovana - 1992 (11th), 1994 (13th), and 1998 (18th)
Surya Bonaly - 1992 (5th), 1994 (4th), 1998 (9th)
*Laetitia Hubert - 1992 (12th), 1994 (17th), 1998 (20th), and 2002 (15th)
*Elena Liashenko - 1994 (19th), 1998 (9th), 2002 (14th), and 2006 (17th)
Irina Slutskaya - 1998 (5th), 2002 (2nd), and 2006 (3rd)
**Julia Sebestyen - 1998 (15th), 2002 (8th), 2006 (18th)


*Four appearances
**Scheduled for fourth appearance in 2010

I was just scanning through the lists, so sorry if I missed anyone.
A few had better records than Cohen so far, some comparable, some much worse.

Sarah Meier is also expected to make her third appearance in 2010.

 

[janetfan]

Hey Mrs. P! I was wondering if you have any sources where it indicates Sasha disagreeing with Michelle's decision to come back like Dee4707.

Dee4707 - The bolded part would refer to Sasha when she was still considered "young" by skating standards lol. Ohh ridiculous skating world, haha. If what Mrs. P is saying is true, Sasha would be acting like somewhat of a hypocrite.

I don't see Mrs. P's post as anti-Sasha in any way though.

Compared to Johnny and Evan or Yags and Plushy I don't think Michelle and Sasha acted too badly towards each other.

Maybe some don't like them for to be as competitive just because they are girls Forget that :yes:

I have no idea if Sasha complained about Michelle's return in '06 just as I am not really sure if Sasha tried to headbutt Michelle during warmups one year

But if Sasha petitioned for a spot on the Natl team - rather than skating for it - then you could call her a hypocrite if she complained about Michelle asking for a medical bye back in '06.

I am starting to feel bad for those fans who like Yuna and Mao. As a fan of both Michelle and Sasha I can only imagine what Yuna and Mao fans put up with.

Now that I think about it I am a fan of Yuna and Mao.
I just don't read much about either of them anymore and am happy enough just to see them skate.

And it usually makes me happy watching Sasha skate.

 

[MKFSfan]

Of course they were rivals, they both competed for the same Gold Medal for 6 years. I don't think that has to mean they HATED each other, and I would imagine there has to be a level of mutual respect. I remember MK and Frank watched Sasha as a young skater and praising her spins. I remember hearing while on tour, they would go out with other skaters for sushi, since the two love sushi. And who could forget the adorable picture of a young NNN and Sasha holding hands and watching in awe as Michelle delivered her 1998 Nats LP masterpiece? But I'd imagine the age difference probably kept them from being good friends. Michelle is rumored to have had a friendly rivalry with Tara and Irina, even being as social as one can be on skating tours, and I don't think we ever heard of a Michelle/Sasha friendship.

 

[silverlake22]

I will note (as many people have mentioned before) that Sasha was VERY VOCAL against Michelle "waltzing" in 2006 and taking one of the spots from younger skaters such as herself (and that's when there were three spots!) And, as others noted, Michelle competed up to the 2005 worlds.

This comment is not designed to be anti-Sasha. It's just a mere observation. We'll see next week who gets on the team.

Finally posting for the first time after getting dinged by the anti-spam filter. (This is what I get for trying to post links!)

That's all I am saying. Sasha had a problem with it four years ago and now she's doing the same thing only more extreme.

Also, whoever said you had to be a "somebody" to plan a comeback, the demands of skating have gone up quite a lot since the day of Sasha. Take Emily Hughes for example, who at her prime I would say was comparable but no better, arguably worse, than Rachael, Ashley, Alissa, Caroline, Mirai and even some tier 2 skaters.

Furthermore, Sasha won those medals because the field was technically weaker, she's never had a solid 3-3 or even a good 3lutz and hasn't done anything technically impressive by today's standard, she can land the jumps most of the time but they are 2 inches of the ground and nothing special. Sasha won medals because of her amazing flexibility, spirals, and great presentation. Her spins were good in her day but the spins of Mirai and Alissa make Sasha's look mediocre in comparison. If flexibility and mini jumps were still enough, I'm sure Caroline would be doing a whole lot better than she is. 2006 Olympics was a splatfest, Sasha came in second but if Mao and Yuna were there she most likely would have been 4th.

Also, if she insists on walzing in and going to the Olympics, if she really is that much better than everyone else, she might as well have the decency to go to Worlds so we get 3 spots for next year. To come in and do 2 competitions, one a qualifier for the other, after a 4 year hiatus, and then go right back out, looks kinda shallow. But whatever.

 

[janetfan]

Also, if she insists on walzing in and going to the Olympics, if she really is that much better than everyone else, she might as well have the decency to go to Worlds so we get 3 spots for next year. To come in and do 2 competitions, one a qualifier for the other, after a 4 year hiatus, and then go right back out, looks kinda shallow. But whatever.

I am not sure if you post some of this stuff during your dreams or if you are actually awake when you write it

Please explain how Sasha can help USA at Worlds?

You just got done ripping her and telling us what a bad skater she is.
Why then do you want Sasha at Worlds? :scratch:

 

[MKFSfan]

Be mad at the USFSA for allowing the stipulation that all reigning OM have a bye to Nationals until the following Olys. Sasha is well within her rights to attend Nationals, which happens to be considered an Oly qualifier. If she shows up, splats all over the place and is held up with ridiculously high PCS, the USFSA will look like a fool come Olympic time. If she has a subpar skate, but noone else delivers, then she probably will be the best of the worst, and that says more about the current skaters than it does about Sasha. If these kids can't beat the Sasha you describe, who are they going to beat at the Olys?

I do think you are harsh about Sasha's chances without even seeing her skate. Yes, the clips we've seen of her is not the most promising, but she does have great spins and spiral sequences. If it's true she's used her time at SOI to work on her edges, speed and ice coverage, that is a huge plus. Her jumps have never been her strength, no 3/3, no true lutz, but she does have lovely air position and quick rotation. Her jumps are small, but certainly big enough to get all the rotation in, which is very important under COP-she may fall, two foot and/or fall out of a few jumps, but rotation counts for a lot.

I cannot believe I just defended Sasha!!!

 

[silverlake22]

I am not sure if you post some of this stuff during your dreams or if you are actually awake when you write it

Please explain how Sasha can help USA at Worlds?

You just got done ripping her and telling us what a bad skater she is.
Why then do you want Sasha at Worlds? :scratch:

PCS. Aka the reputation score. She will get good scores regardless of how she does AND she's less likely to crack under pressure. We know the international judges are super tough on Caroline and Mirai, Alissa has the tendency to melt under pressure, so that leaves Rachael and Ashley. Ashley tends to get dinged by international judges too, so Sasha and Rachael probably make more sense.

 

[janetfan]

Be mad at the USFSA for allowing the stipulation that all reigning OM have a bye to Nationals until the following Olys. Sasha is well within her rights to attend Nationals, which happens to be considered an Oly qualifier. If she shows up, splats all over the place and is held up with ridiculously high PCS, the USFSA will look like a fool come Olympic time. If she has a subpar skate, but noone else delivers, then she probably will be the best of the worst, and that says more about the current skaters than it does about Sasha. If these kids can't beat the Sasha you describe, who are they going to beat at the Olys?

I do think you are harsh about Sasha's chances without even seeing her skate. Yes, the clips we've seen of her is not the most promising, but she does have great spins and spiral sequences. If it's true she's used her time at SOI to work on her edges, speed and ice coverage, that is a huge plus. Her jumps have never been her strength, no 3/3, no true lutz, but she does have lovely air position and quick rotation. Her jumps are small, but certainly big enough to get all the rotation in, which is very important under COP-she may fall, two foot and/or fall out of a few jumps, but rotation counts for a lot.

I cannot believe I just defended Sasha!!!

Being a Kween fan "means never having to say you are sorry."

I wish I could say the same for Sasha's fans ;

 

[Spun Silver]

I'm a little taken aback by the vitriol against James R. I'm as frustrated as he is - just a few years further on on the skating boards and thus a little more schooled at how to survive as a Sasha fan.

James, you need to know the dogs are gonna chew their bones. Put your own ravishment and delight out there - but such views will provoke more putdowns so either gear up for a long battle or just tune out the critics. I take my hat off to Janetfan for holding up the Sasha torch for the past few months. Some posters here seem to live to find places to spread negativity about little Miss Cohen... the same thing, over and over, year after year. I've been watching this for four years now and it never changes. For the most part I leave them to their little obsession, but every now and then I lose patience. :scowl:

Add to this the natural tensions of an Olympic season and a Sasha thread becomes an arena defying logic and sportsmanship.

As far as I'm concerned, there hasn't been much to say. In the absence of solid facts and footage about her training, I'm just waiting until we see her on Spokane ice. I don't underestimate the size of her challenge but, considering her injury, she looked very good at Improv Ice, so I'm cautiously hopeful that she'll show up in competitive shape and blaze her way onto the team.

As for all the conspiracy theories, piffle. No US lady is a solid prospect for an Olympic medal yet. Maybe things will look different in two weeks, but as of now the current ladies all show strengths and weaknesses and it's a tossup which two will make the most competitive team. We won't know till the 26th.

The reasonable stuff having been said, I'll just close by saying no lady is likelier to give an exciting, memorable program than Sasha and I can't wait to see her compete again, God willing! Here's hoping maturity and experience will enable her to handle the pressure and skate her best. Go, Sasha!

If she has a subpar skate, but noone else delivers, then she probably will be the best of the worst, and that says more about the current skaters than it does about Sasha. If these kids can't beat the Sasha you describe, who are they going to beat at the Olys?

:agree: Exactly.

 

[Dee4707]

She has also admitted later in her career to wishing MK would just retire and let others have their chance, and then she also said that the fact MK being around made her a better skater in the long run.

I guess I don't see the MK retiring as a diss but the truth. I see that comment as admiration.

Seriously, do you honestly think that anyone else would ever win Nationals if Michelle competed in them??? I don't.

 

[MKFSfan]

US Nationals has always been the House of Michelle. Since 1996, there was only one event where she didn't do well and there were others who outskated her: 1997 Nationals LP, both Tara and Nicole skated better. Other than that, even with a fall and some doubled jumps here and there over the years, Michelle has always won the LP's, 1st place ordinals all the way across the board. Now THAT is an accomplishment!

 

[James R]

US Nationals has always been the House of Michelle. Since 1996, there was only one event where she didn't do well and there were others who outskated her: 1997 Nationals LP, both Tara and Nicole skated better. Other than that, even with a fall and some doubled jumps here and there over the years, Michelle has always won the LP's, 1st place ordinals all the way across the board. Now THAT is an accomplishment!

Not to disparage Michelle, who was a fine skater and champion, but it is pretty commonly accepted that she was "held up" at least some of the time, winning when she didn't have the same level of technical difficulty as other skaters. Curious that some people are throwing out conspiracies about how Sasha "MIGHT" be held up at the upcoming Nationals, and ignoring how that actually did happen for Michelle.

I don't support anyone being held up, by the way. Nor do I blame the skater for it.

And if Sasha fans were to want to hang out at Sasha fans instead of here, it would be for the simple fact that it's one of the only skating forums that isn't actively HOSTILE toward Sasha.

 

[Mathman]

Not to disparage Michelle, who was a fine skater and champion, but it is pretty commonly accepted that she was "held up" at least some of the time, winning when she didn't have the same level of technical difficulty as other skaters.

Can you mention at which of her nine U.S. championships she was outskated technically?

 

[Mrs. P]

Not to disparage Michelle, who was a fine skater and champion, but it is pretty commonly accepted that she was "held up" at least some of the time, winning when she didn't have the same level of technical difficulty as other skaters. Curious that some people are throwing out conspiracies about how Sasha "MIGHT" be held up at the upcoming Nationals, and ignoring how that actually did happen for Michelle.

I don't support anyone being held up, by the way. Nor do I blame the skater for it.

And if Sasha fans were to want to hang out at Sasha fans instead of here, it would be for the simple fact that it's one of the only skating forums that isn't actively HOSTILE toward Sasha.

Wow. I'm relatively new here, but don't think anyone is being hostile toward Sasha. I think they're skeptical about her. There's a BIG difference. I think most people on this forum will accept Sasha on the team once she gets on the team. But given the fact that the only skating we've seen from her is from a bunch of television specials where she's messing up Salchows, I think there's good reason to wonder.

And one thing to toss in the mix is how injuries could any skater, period. Just look at Patrick Chan or Daisuke. Both dealt with injuries and both dealt with problems at the GP. AT least with those two they had time to recover. And at least they showed up, so we know that Chan still has the nice edges and that Daisuke's programs are interesting to watch.

The problem with Sasha is that we don't have anything like that.

What we do know that some skaters are willing to pull miracles despite injury. Look at Shen and Zhao...they won the 2004 (right) Worlds while Shen had numb legs. And with Zhao's achilles tendon injury they weren't ready to compete, or for that matter, train until weeks before the Olympics and managed to get a bronze.
So who knows perhaps Sasha is in deep in pain and doing the programs though it. As others said on here, she's pretty stubborn.

 

[silverlake22]

I wish Michelle was having a comeback instead of Sasha. Miss her

 

[MKFSfan]

Not to disparage Michelle, who was a fine skater and champion, but it is pretty commonly accepted that she was "held up" at least some of the time, winning when she didn't have the same level of technical difficulty as other skaters. Curious that some people are throwing out conspiracies about how Sasha "MIGHT" be held up at the upcoming Nationals, and ignoring how that actually did happen for Michelle.

I don't support anyone being held up, by the way. Nor do I blame the skater for it.

EVERY countries' Nationals has inflated scores, whether it's the handing out of 6.0's or very generous PCS marks. That is to be expected. What I look for and care about is whether the placement is still deserved. I have no doubt there were times Michelle got inflated marks, but IMO she deserved every National and World title she won. My point was she received 1st place ordinals across the board in the LP at Nationals each time she won. You can't tell me EVERY single judge cheated to have her win the LPs.

The "conspiracy theory" that Sasha might be held up at Nats even if she does not deserve to win is based on what if she skates poorly and still gets HUGE inflated PCS marks, is that fair? What if both Rachael and Ashley clearly outskate her, say they land 7 triples, with all Level 4's and their TES marks are WAY above Sasha yet Sasha's PCS marks are WAY above theirs so that she wins? I remember when Sasha won in 2006 with a huge LP score, I think it was a 134, she was asked about how that score would've been a record setting score for the Ladies' LP had it been an international score. She said that happens at Nationals, basically lending the impression it would not have happened had it not been Nationals.

I really don't care if Sasha gets huge scores at Nationals and there is a huge gap between her and the rest of the field as long as there is reason to believe she deserved to win.

And if Sasha fans were to want to hang out at Sasha fans instead of here, it would be for the simple fact that it's one of the only skating forums that isn't actively HOSTILE toward Sasha.

Have you read posts over there??? Sometimes I wonder if some of the posters are just pretending to be her fans...it's pretty harsh!

 

[Kwanford Wife]

I guess I don't see the MK retiring as a diss but the truth. I see that comment as admiration.

Seriously, do you honestly think that anyone else would ever win Nationals if Michelle competed in them??? I don't.

I'm not so sure about this... I do believe that had other competitiors, Sasha in particular, had ever come to Nationals hellbent on beating Michelle and had the programs to prove it, I think that individual would've been successful. I've never believed that Michelle was unbeatable or that judges had a vested interest in holding her up to ensure the MK Nationals Legacy remained - I think it was simply that she was the best at competing - had that warrior mentality that made her so dominate.

I hope that Sasha has it next weekend. I for one would love to see her on the US team because based on her last performance, she's better than the current crop of ladies. It is what it is... we'll see whose right and wrong but I plan on coming to GS with a bucket of popcorn so I can enjoy the floorshow...

I wish Michelle was having a comeback instead of Sasha. Miss her

Hostile troublemaker! Actually, what I'd prefer would be for BOTH of them to have a comeback and let the chips fall where they may... Now THAT would've been interesting... It would've been worth taking two weeks off work to travel to Spokane to see it live while staying logged into GS to watch all the angst, hair pulling and downright catfights that would've broken out... Or it would've been a disater for US Ladies...

Can you mention at which of her nine U.S. championships she was outskated technically?

MM: No, its better to whine than to dialogue and debate. didn't you get the memo?

 

[silverlake22]

Maybe Sasha won't get huge PCS scores internationally....she's not as pretty as Kiira, Laura, and Carolina

 

[Phoenix347]

Maybe Sasha won't get huge PCS scores internationally....she's not as pretty as Kiira, Laura, and Carolina

Ah... what you're really saying is that she's not European. She definitely prettier than Carolina and as or prettier than Kiira and Laura.

 

[R.D.]

The "conspiracy theory" that Sasha might be held up at Nats even if she does not deserve to win is based on what if she skates poorly and still gets HUGE inflated PCS marks, is that fair? What if both Rachael and Ashley clearly outskate her, say they land 7 triples, with all Level 4's and their TES marks are WAY above Sasha yet Sasha's PCS marks are WAY above theirs so that she wins? I remember when Sasha won in 2006 with a huge LP score, I think it was a 134, she was asked about how that score would've been a record setting score for the Ladies' LP had it been an international score. She said that happens at Nationals, basically lending the impression it would not have happened had it not been Nationals.

I really don't care if Sasha gets huge scores at Nationals and there is a huge gap between her and the rest of the field as long as there is reason to believe she deserved to win.

Thanks for echoing what I've been trying to say...it's tough with fans jumping down your throat, but this is the CORE of my point right here. The quoted post above.

Have you read posts over [at Sashafans]??? Sometimes I wonder if some of the posters are just pretending to be her fans...it's pretty harsh!

Exactly...as I said before, true fans stand by the person through the good times AND the bad, through thick and thin. "Fair-weather" fans just hang around when everything's all smooth and the person is on top of the world. They'll turn on the person or look elsewhere when the going gets tough. Nothing wrong with either position, necessarily...I have been guilty of being a "fair-weather" fan of a few folks as well (mainly sports teams- not skaters)...