Are Evan and Johnny going in the wrong direction?

[enlight78]

I believe that Evan and Johnny are putting to much effort into a lost cause. Brian and Daisuke are able to put down two quads. So doing a quad want give them the edge. Brian and Takahashi haven't ever gotten high 8's in the PCs.If Evan and Johnny could manage to get 8.5 in the PCs there total score would increase about 15 points. The same amount as a quad/triple. If Kevin Reynolds could go from 5's to 6's. Evan and Johnny can go from 7.5's to 8.5's.I think it is yukari best bet also. It will be hard to do a triple/triple with that wrap. She is already a very entertaining skater.

 

[mskater93]

Judges use PCS marks as placeholders like the old artistic mark. The only skater who's broken 8.5 was Plushenko. Since the PCS marks are subjective, even with criteria, it would be IMPOSSIBLE to score that high without a quad.

 

[enlight78]

Judges use PCS marks as placeholders like the old artistic mark. The only skater who's broken 8.5 was Plushenko. Since the PCS marks are subjective, even with criteria, it would be IMPOSSIBLE to score that high without a quad.

I don't believe it is impossible. One is just required to be more creative, think outside the box or artistic. If it is impossible then their is no point of having PCs and the whole point of Cop would be a fraud.

 

[Buttercup]

I agree with mskater93 - it's not likely to work. I find it extremely difficult to believe that we'll see high 8s for either of the Americans, or really for anyone else. Evan has done ok with the quad and should focus on that and on his jump technique (to improve his GOEs). Also, he needs some fashion help! Johnny needs to learn from Jeffrey Buttle's example and max his levels and combinations. The quad for him probably is a lost cause, at least as a consistent jump (especially with his tendency to UR).

enlight78 - If it were so easy to up your PCS, don't you think Joubert and Takahashi would've done so already? They're not just good technically - they're both very strong performers (albeit completely different in style). PCS, as I understand it, doesn't have that much to do with creativity, except maybe the choreo mark; it's about the overall effect of a program, rather than specific elements like the tech.

At the lower levels, I think it takes a while for skaters to become comfortable with all the elements, and until they do so, they're not always capable of doing what needs to be done for higher PCS (especially interpretation, transitions and P/E). Once the technical stuff becomes easier, a skater is more free to pay attention to the rest. Which is why going from 5 to 6 is much easier than going from 7.5 to 8.5.

 

[Mathman]

Well, I think Evan has gone about as far as his natural talent can take him, and I think Johnny is past his prime. You can't get big tech scores OR high PCSs by underrotating and falling on a quad attempt.

I think Buttle is the best example. For a long time he valiantly threw a quad out there hoping that even when he fell he would still get some COP mercy points and it would show that he was one of the big boys. When he chucked all that, he won the world chamionship.

I think Evan needs to work on his triple Axel-- always an adventure -- and I think Johnny needs to reclaim his soul. If future medals are in the cards for them, good for them. If not, skate to your own drummer, however measured or far away.

 

[Spun Silver]

Johnny needs to eat more, preferably red meat. He seems tired. I don't think he's past his prime, but he's at a point where every choice counts. Right now he is being loyal to his Russians even though they are not producing the magical programs he made his reputation on. Absent that change, I agree with MM that he should do the Buttle. Drop the quad and be the best Johnny he can be. His model should be Curry, not Yagudin.

 

[sillylionlove]

Not only are Daisuke and Brian in the mix but Kozuka and Oda are still out there. I think that Johnny and Evan really need to up it a little bit (or maybe alot.) There are too many guys out there that are really climbing up the ladder. I am curious to see how the other American men do during the Grand Prix. I am looking forward to seeing how Carriere does this season.

I find Johnny's music choices just awful!! Maybe he should pick the 1812 overture.. LOL....or maybe just something a little more upbeat. While I love classical music....I get really bored with his program because his music just bored me.

As for Evan....please Tanith...you mom does great costumes....please have her make him one. What the heck was that he was wearing in the long program?

 

[goldenpleasures]

If Evan and Johnny could manage to get 8.5 in the PCs there total score would increase about 15 points.

It's just not going to happen. 8.5 in PCS is rare and won't be given to these two. Johnny is becoming so bland these days that people are losing interest, while Evan seems so determined not to be bland that he's gone to the opposite extreme. There are better male skaters out there.

 

[fairly4]

I think they are doing fine except they need to fight a bit more.

Evan needs to skate faster and emote (project)more.
I am not sure what Johnny needs to do. Just keep skating clean and consistent do what is written on his program sheet.

I am disappointed in their finishes. I can't understand how they was both 20 points ahead in the short and wound up 2nd and 3rd. Isn't bad but not exactly expecting.
Johnny did okay

 

[lmarie086]

I am disappointed in their finishes. I can't understand how they was both 20 points ahead in the short and wound up 2nd and 3rd. Isn't bad but not exactly expecting.
Johnny did okay

They most certainly were not 20 points ahead after the SP, unless that's a typo and you meant 2.0, and they weren't even that.

I miss Otonal Johnny = [

 

[Buttercup]

I am disappointed in their finishes. I can't understand how they was both 20 points ahead in the short and wound up 2nd and 3rd. Isn't bad but not exactly expecting.

They were not 20 points ahead after the SP. No one finishes 20 points ahead of the field in the SP. Even Plush, with massive jumps and generous scoring, never managed it. Kozuka was about 1 point behind after the short at SA, and finished 1 point ahead of Johnny overall.

sillylionlove: I think Johnny and Evan screwed up with the music choices. I wish Evan would think outside the box just once.

ETA: lmarie086 beat me to it with the 20/2.0. But I think I'll leave the post as is.

 

[sillylionlove]

sillylionlove: I think Johnny and Evan screwed up with the music choices. I wish Evan would think outside the box just once.

.

Yes I have to agree. with you Evan's music was kind of boring. But I spent most of his program looking at his stupid costume!!! Michelle Kwan never wore stupid things...doesn't Frank Carroll say something to him?

 

[Penny]

Johnny needs--strong dynamic music, better choreography, faster spins.
Otherwise, the Buttle strategy won't work. He needs music that people like and recognize. I'm not laughing at 1812 overture. It would be great.

Evan needs--to hit his quad and triple A (duh) and ditch the bad costumes (duh duh). I liked his Rhapsody in Blue program because it had change in dynamics and a great buildup at the end. His footwork was very good and beautifully choreographed. Do his arms flail? Well, you have to do something with your arms. That's just his style. We don't want everyone to look the same.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Well, Evan made an attempt to use different music but other than that there was nothing new. I didn't see anything new with Johnny. The both have now been won over by a 2nd tier skater, and seriously threatened by others. They have work to do. It's still early in the season.

 

[Tonichelle]

I think Buttle is the best example. For a long time he valiantly threw a quad out there hoping that even when he fell he would still get some COP mercy points and it would show that he was one of the big boys. When he chucked all that, he won the world chamionship.

the plan worked in 06 in Torino.

 

[Spun Silver]

Johnny needs--strong dynamic music, better choreography, faster spins.
Otherwise, the Buttle strategy won't work. He needs music that people like and recognize. I'm not laughing at 1812 overture. It would be great.

Agree with first part. But 1812 overture is more like Evan - macho, trite. My theory is that Johnny will do best if he sticks to his own kind of gender-bender Otonal-Swan routines but maxes the CoP in them. This season's numbers are borderline OK but not magic. 1812 is not magic!!!

Do his arms flail? Well, you have to do something with your arms. That's just his style.

Well, arm-flailing looks better on some people than others. His arms are so long and skinny that it looks especially bad on him, IMO.

We don't want everyone to look the same.

Very true. And I was OK with the results yesterday.

 

[Buttercup]

Otherwise, the Buttle strategy won't work. He needs music that people like and recognize. I'm not laughing at 1812 overture. It would be great.

Jeffrey Buttle was very good at picking music that suited his style and wasn't being used by every other skater from novice level and up. Ararat is not exactly Tosca. He never did Carmen, Swan Lake, Romeo and Juliet, Nessun Dorma, etc. Johnny needs to stay original and drop the quad; I think that should trigger at least some change for the better.

 

[museksk8r]

The both have now been won over by a 2nd tier skater

Kozuka was 8th last season at Worlds and is a Jr. World Champion as well as a Jr. Grand Prix Final Champion. Weir was 8th in the World in 2007 and is a Jr. World Champion. I personally think Taka is where he belongs. "2nd tier" somehow implies he's not as good a skater as Evan and Johnny and I don't believe that to be true. Jeffrey Buttle was described by some as a 2nd tier skater prior to the 2008 Worlds and we all know what happened there. Anything can happen in figure skating!

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Kozuka was 8th last season at Worlds and is a Jr. World Champion as well as a Jr. Grand Prix Final Champion. Weir was 8th in the World in 2007 and is a Jr. World Champion. I personally think Taka is where he belongs. "2nd tier" somehow implies he's not as good a skater as Evan and Johnny and I don't believe that to be true. Jeffrey Buttle was described by some as a 2nd tier skater prior to the 2008 Worlds and we all know what happened there. Anything can happen in figure skating!

Sorry, you read it that way. No implication was intended. The two Americans were so overwhelmingly looking for the title. Taka is a fine skater and for me, new to the scene. One more skate like he did, will put him in the much talked about grouping.

 

[lmarie086]

As much as I love Johnny, I have to agree that both he and Evan really aren't getting better.
Johnny's style has stagnated under this coaching team, which makes me sad as they have helped him with consistency. If he could just go outside for choreography, I think that would be a big help. Also, it might be for the best to just drop the quad. With the style Johnny became known for, clean would win out over big jumps done sloppy IMO.
I haven't been an Evan fan since his "Singin' in the Rain" days, and sadly I don't think that'll change. Since those days he hasn't really improved all that much IMO; his 3A is pretty bad, and he seems to think it's ok now. As strange as it may seem, I think Evan is more OTT than Johnny (his expression, body movement as examples).

If Jeremy Abbott and Adam Rippon could just get the jumps under hand, I would be rooting for them to take the top two spots, then Johnny in 3rd. Realistically, I know it wouldn't happen.