Article on 2004 Campbell's: Prize money, Kwan and Cohen confirmed

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Isn't that always the case? You really can't predict these comps. Yes, I kind of agree but I think it adds "fun" to the "off-season debate".

I agree, it does add fun but it does make predictions look silly and the poster who made them. Why not just pick a skater and add to the prediction something like He/She has looked good in practice during the summer so a prediction may have some validity. Otherwise just list your favorite which we all know who that is.

BTW - Has anything new happened with this upcoming Cheesefest? I'm more interested in seeing the skate rather than making predictions. I'd like to know who else is involved. I am not anxious to see MK or SC as I am Irina. I hope she got an invitation. Also I'm interested in seeing if Johnny is keeping up with his past excellent season. Will Tim be back? Who will be the international Men involved? So much more to look forward to and not just the MK/SC thing.

Joe

 

[berthes ghost]

BTW - Has anything new happened with this upcoming Cheesefest? I'm more interested in seeing the skate rather than making predictions. I'd like to know who else is involved. I am not anxious to see MK or SC as I am Irina. I hope she got an invitation. Also I'm interested in seeing if Johnny is keeping up with his past excellent season. Will Tim be back? Who will be the international Men involved? So much more to look forward to and not just the MK/SC thing.

Nope, so far it's only MK and SC. http://www.startribune.com/stories/503/4876698.html Quote:" The remaining skaters will be announced later."

 

[berthes ghost]

I agree, it does add fun but it does make predictions look silly and the poster who made them. Why not just pick a skater and add to the prediction something like He/She has looked good in practice during the summer so a prediction may have some validity. Otherwise just list your favorite which we all know who that is.

Just out of curiosity what brought this sudden conviction on? I didn't see a single prediction in this entire thread.

 

[Mathman]

Imagine if political pundants said things like "I'm gonna wait until after the conventions to predict who's gonna win the election" No news program would carry them.

Bliss.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Just out of curiosity what brought this sudden conviction on? I didn't see a single prediction in this entire thread.

Trust me, as soon as the lineup is complete there will be a thread from someone saying: I can't wait, what is your prediction? And yes, Bliss.
Joe

 

[R.D.]

Re. predictions

I really don't see what's wrong with predicting. I personally tend not to, but I find nothing wrong with it. Don't commentators always try to predict the winner of a basketball or football game? What about the endless speculation about the Super Bowl or the NBA Finals or the World Series? Is that wrong too? I think it's part of the fun of watching the game or the series; watching experts try to predict the winner based on past games or competitions, and maybe even coming to your own conclusion(s). Of course, once the game/series actually starts, all the predictions usually go out the window (2004 NBA Finals anyone?) but I think, as a sports fan, that's part of the fun.

To relate this to skating competitions, I realize that there are many competitors (rather than two teams playing each other) and therefore would be harder to predict accurately. But what if we banned all predictions/speculations/rumours? It would make for a pretty boring (IMO) off-season at these forums. Even if the competition goes totally in the opposite direction of the predictions (i.e. ladies' 2004 worlds) it was fun reading the predictions, and helps build excitement or get you prepared for the game.

Just my 2 cents...and just my opinion.

 

[RIskatingfan]

Add me to the group who doesn't see what's wrong with predictions. Doesn't make any sense. No predictions? Predictions are silly? LOL I doubt any of us here are magicians who can read the future and there's a high probability that our guesses are wrong, but I think that's a given, that's why it's called "prediction" LOL If we base ourselves on historical results, have some knowledge about someone's skating, how they are doing before a major competition and how good or bad they are skating... I think we can make a guess as to how good or bad they will skate. So what if we are wrong? Many times not even the skaters themselves know why things don't go the way they predicted!

Not sure what triggered this comment of predictions vs hopes, but I think most people who honestly reply to the question of "who do you predict will win..." can perfectly make a distinction between a prediction and what their hope for the final result is. Say, Kevin VDP may be my fave skater, but that doesn't mean I will automatically predict that he will be the next Worlds champion. I doubt anyone could have predicted that Shizuka Arakawa would be our current ladies champion, but that's not surprising. Kwan was still the reigning World Champion and National Champion, Sasha Cohen was having her best season up to date. Who would guess that an inconsistent skater who had never finished top 5 would win? Just an example.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

I understand the pro-predictioners. There is nothing wrong with it. I know most of the posters on this Board and they will predict their favorites and without any up to date information. I'm not saying everyone. I am saying most of them. When I see a poster's name, I know the prediction before I open the thread. In fact, any Member can do the same thing.. I'm not psychic. In most cases it will be their favorite skater(s). Am I absolutely wrong? If I am correct, then we are voting for the most popular skater on GS and not necessarily the gold medal winner in the cheesefest.

Yes, there are some serious skating fans who rise above this and will predict based on last season's skate and seeing a certain improvement from the year before, and more expectation this year, If an explanation goes with the prediction, it becomes more interesting.

And there are many more posters, like me, who just want to see if there is anything new coming from the usual suspects to use it and the GPs, the Nats, so that they can make a realistic Worlds prediction provided all the skaters have a good night.

So for the cheesfest, it isn't a real prediction as sportcasters, and sportswriters do. They are aware of what is going on during the off season as well as the most recent season They may not agree, but it is not because their predictions are based on the indidivual or team. College Football is a good example of pedictions.before the season starts.

I suppose it is fun to list your favorite skater as the winner of the cheesfest. Certainly there is nothing wrong with that. It's GREAT FUN TO PREDICT YOUR FAVORITE. Don't listen to me.

jOE .

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

RISkater - Couldn't agree with you more. Your post is right on with serious skating fans who take a serious interest in predicting.
Your example of Shizuka just shows how predictions can go wrong. as far as the gold medal is concerened. And it was the Worlds after we saw everyone skate in GPs and some Nats. seeing all that and waiting for skaters to perform their best makes the prediction is easier and it]s not just one's favorite.

I think the world's prediction for 2004 were for Sasha, Michelle and Fumie in no particuar order.

cheers - Joe

 

[R.D.]

Then in that case, there should be a distinction between a "prediction" and a "hope". As far as I know, when I read prediction threads many posters list their predictions (based on THEIR thoughts) and their dream podiums (how they WANT the competition to turn out). Others simply make a list of skaters with placement numbers next to them. I guess this is what the anti-prediction people are talking about?

I know most of the posters on this Board and they will predict their favorites and without any up to date information. I'm not saying everyone. I am saying most of them. When I see a poster's name, I know the prediction before I open the thread. In fact, any Member can do the same thing.. I'm not psychic. In most cases it will be their favorite skater(s). Am I absolutely wrong? If I am correct, then we are voting for the most popular skater on GS and not necessarily the gold medal winner in the cheesefest.

If I understand you correctly, I guess you are saying that people should only post "predictions" if they can be perfectly objective in their view and offer a detailed explanation of why they are making that prediction? And as for predictions going wrong, people shouldn't fear such a thing happening, otherwise we'd better ban predicting altogether...

ETA:

I think the world's prediction for 2004 were for Sasha, Michelle and Fumie in no particuar order.

I think they might have been, and as a matter of fact that prediction would have been mostly correct...it was only Fumie that wasn't on the podium. Sasha and Michelle were on it, were they not?

 

[Mathman]

BTW - Has anything new happened with this upcoming Cheesefest? I'm more interested in seeing the skate rather than making predictions. I'd like to know who else is involved. I am not anxious to see MK or SC as I am Irina. I hope she got an invitation. Also I'm interested in seeing if Johnny is keeping up with his past excellent season. Will Tim be back? Who will be the international Men involved? So much more to look forward to and not just the MK/SC thing.

Nope, so far it's only MK and SC. http://www.startribune.com/stories/503/4876698.html Quote:" The remaining skaters will be announced later."

I don't know why I am so interested in the financial aspect of sports, but I am. I see that Kobe Bryant just signed with the Lakers for $136,000,000 -- taking the edge off his loss of revenue from the cancellation of his MacDonald's endorsements.

I think these so-called cheesefests are becoming the new "pro circuit," taking the place of the World Pro, etc., as that generation of skaters (Kristi Yamaguchi , Bryan Boitano, Kurt Browning) pass the torch. I think it is quite telling that as soon as the organizers get Michelle and Sasha to commit, they know they've got a show and it's time to roll the presses, even while other invitations are being mulled over and other negotiations are taking place.

Michelle Kwan is really the only name that the USFSA can peddle to the television networks and to potential sponsors who are trying to attract a large audience outside of hard-core skating fans. Sasha is just one major championship away from achieving that kind of recognition. Now round up the usual suspects and away we go.

I am very curious to know what kind of fees the agents of Evgenny Plushenko can negotiate for their client for something like this. Plushenko is the man -- but he's the man in a sport where the women attract the most interest.

Or what about Shizuka Arakawa? How much is a world championship worth? Last year, Shizuka was shoehorned into the December show in Auburn Hills at the last minute when Irina Slutskaya withdrew. The only reason Shizuka was invited was that she was living in the area, training a few miles down the road, and she could step in at moment's notice. She skated great on a night when all of the other ladies had verticality problems and she finished second (probably should have won).

Joe, you have long lamented that serious pro competitions as opposed to shows, have fallen by the wayside. Maybe this is it.

Mathman

 

[merrywidow]

Just a small point: Noone is forced to sign a contract with the USFSA. They should realize that if they do sign they are then committed to make appearances unless physically unable to perform.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Joe, you have long lamented that serious pro competitions as opposed to shows, have fallen by the wayside. Maybe this is it.
Mathman

Mathman - Still lamenting am I over the loss of a real sports-like competition from the Non-eligible skaters. They screwed it up with outlandish choreography and costumed themselves in outlandish outfits. Not unlike the old skating shows but hardly competition. The teenyboppers adore it but the sponsors said NO MORE. The general public wanted no more unlsess there is another scandal. There still exists, I think, a battle between the N.American s and the World. Another silly competition - who cares who wins? but the skating last time out was soooo beautiful, I gave gold medal ties to many.

I don't know why the ISU didn't take its cue from Ihe International Tennis Association which went to work in the early 70s and made Tennis a big draw on TV as well as Arena filling. Before that Tennis was a little sport like figure skating. Maybe the Skating Channel (if that ever comes into being, will get some new spectator interest which will bring in more sponsors.

I'm happy with the Campbells. I wish it would be a two day event where more skaters could participate. It gives me the first view of the usual suspects for the upcoming season - new music? new choreo? new costume? new tricks? From that point of view I am very interested. Not so with the one after the Worlds. That's fun to see but it is just so anticlimatic after Worlds and Olys.

Hope we get a list of contestantts soon.

Joe

 

[berthes ghost]

Mathman - Still lamenting am I over the loss of a real sports-like competition from the Non-eligible skaters. They screwed it up with outlandish choreography and costumed themselves in outlandish outfits. Not unlike the old skating shows but hardly competition. The teenyboppers adore it but the sponsors said NO MORE. The general public wanted no more unlsess there is another scandal. There still exists, I think, a battle between the N.American s and the World. Another silly competition - who cares who wins? but the skating last time out was soooo beautiful, I gave gold medal ties to many.

I'm not sure who the "they" are that you blame. I blame the judges, the audience and the promotors just as much as I blame the skaters. The judges the most I susppose. Giving high marks and a World Pro win to Phillippe's scadallously bad taste was an abomination. How could anyone respect a sport that gives that crap a championship title? Sitting in my living room alone, watching the judges lap it up, the audience lap it up, and imagining the promotors laughing all the way tot the bank, I truely felt alone in my desire to see honest skating, yes skating, Not posing, not taking your clothes off, not props, not leaving the ice to enter the audience. Skating. The audeince was punch drunk with droll all over thier chins and the judges were giving out 10 like it was the last day on earth. Who's to say I'm right and all of them are wrong? Heck, if I was handed tens of thousands of dollars and a major championsip title to take my shirt off, I'd do it too. If the skating world (and that includes fans) hands over unadulterated praise for crap, the skater is probably the least to blame for the dumbing down of the sport.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Exactly BG - It was not only Philippe but everyone who took part in them.. The entire promotion of Pro competition was geared for money nothing else., imo.

Joe