Asada, her fall and her PCS

[Kinga]

As much as I admire Mao for her programme, and her jumps (well, not 'flutz'), I still think that PCS were inflated, and, I also think that in general they are in her case. She skates nicely, but.... I don't find anything special and natural in her transitions and interpretation. For me, she is not as natural as Yukari. Yukari is genuine, Mao is somehow 'made', everyhing looks rather as 'learnt'. Her programmes just look similar to me. Steps are nice, but she would fit very similar sequences into all her performances - they are 'CoP made'. Maybe she will develop magic and her own personality with time.
I am not convinced with Kostner artistry either.
Yuna skates nicely, but she was not in the top shape in this WCh.
For me, PCS nr 1 in both SP and LP shpuld be for Yukari.

In general, within last few years, I have enjoyed mens' competition much more, because programmes are so different, whereas ladies tend to look unoriginal. And unless a lady is a real artist on ice (like M.Kwan), the programmes just dont thrill me.

 

[emma]

I am still playing catch up reading all these threads, but do want to say how I agree with all the posters that said Mao's fall didn't interrupt the rest of the program. When I read about it, I couldn't imainge enjoying her LP, but then I watched the LP, she fell hard at the beginning and then boom: she goes into nothing happned mode and skated beautifully.

I also agree with with people who think Mao skates great - her stretch, posture, line, flow and changing speed alll impress me. I think she does skate to the music (or at least this music) and she, IMO has really, really fantastic footwork in both the short and long because it involves all the complexity of different directions, kinds of steps, use of full body, changing speed and does so without being 'choppy' and looks effortless. Congrats, Mao, to a lovely fought for win!

I so often defend CoP, but Carolina's medal does make me jump ship. and, I really admire her and like her skating, but this was a disappointment for me.

 

[capcomop]

OK, I'm very sorry that Yu-Na didn't win but Mao earned every points she got. I'm really happy for Mao.

Please go watch the two programs from 4CC and the World.
Except for "run through" a short in between spread eagle after the 3A Mao didn't miss or change anything of her program. She resumed her cheorography from the turn right after the spread eagle and everything from there was spot on. You can even match the two programs note by note. There was no half a minute wasted on finding her spot, it was less than 10 seconds cross-over that many other skaters would normally do anyway. She didn't rushed anything or watered down her program as some people imagined. Please take a little bit time watching before talking about it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Kf5FH__TbQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FhV6nHZOz4s&feature=related

Carolina's PCS should be much lower. Yu-na's should be higher but not higher than Mao's or Yukari's.

I saw the fall on-line and then on tv and was shocked how long it took her to get it back together! It looked like she was really lost and didn't know what to do. In real time, looking at the YouTube it was about 13 seconds before she stops just stroking hands down by her side and actually does something else. She gets up and covers the diagonal of the ice without any arm movement, turns a corner without any arm movements and then another turn and then starts her arm movements. Compared to 4C's there are a number of brackets, arm movements and a spread eagle in that space. It did disrup the program significantly but it was so early that I am thinking the judges dismissed it.

I got to watch the final flight of ladies without sound and was amazed at how frantic and unfinished and flat and hunched Mao and Yu-Na look compared to the more mature ladies. Their faces rarely engage in expressing the music, their arm motions are freqnuently truncated to rush to the next item and, at least, Mao's stroking is choppy and somewhat frantic. She is also really flat footed, she doesn't point her toes. All that being said she can jump like nobody else I have seen in a very long time and that night that is what it took to win. She did it. Good for her, the new world champion!

 

[SkatingAnalyst]

It looked like the judges inflated about 3 PC points for Mao even with that DISASTEROUS FALL... I would have done the same if I were the judge...

It would have been the most controversial championship in history...
IF CAROLINA WON !!!

 

[lisadotdash]

Mao vs. Caro

I just studied both and it just seems to me that Mao is just glide glide and Poof! a little jump, glide glide and Poof! a big jump big jump little jump and glide glide again, etc. etc. and throws the airplane arms every which way. Her music was not even conducive to what she was doing out there.

Carolina on the other hand, she's has the movie star presence. She had the audience clapping, whistling, Her music was more fit for skating. Her skating was more dance-like, and she held spirals, all around the arena. Sure she put a hand down, and she didn't land jumps prettily but I think the skater who did the triple axel should have gotten the gold. Mao fell, and maybe it was just incredibly bad luck, but like the other person said, she skated around a good ten seconds before she got back into the program. She should have been tossed out of the medal range, but I'm just glad for Carolina, she looked beautiful, gave two good performances and I hope to see her at the Olympics.

 

[summervie]

In real time, looking at the YouTube it was about 13 seconds before she stops just stroking hands down by her side and actually does something else.

13 seconds? Are you sure you counted right? Not 14?

 

[inskate]

Having watched a few broadcasts... (Congrats to ESPN for much better camera angles...) I think she already has been deducted in PCS quite a lot. From all the praises given by various commentators - from Uncle Dick & Peggy, through Chris & Nicky, Kurt & Tracy, to Robin Cousins from BBS, one might expect even bigger scores.

She had the audience (...) whistling,

Sure it wasn't at the scores? Because the audience certainly booed when Yukari's and YuNa's scores went up, placing them behind Caro. They were pretty happy with Mao scores, though.

she held spirals

Sure she did - for dear life, even. I called that "rocking horse" spiral. Irina was a master at it, too...

Mao's stroking is choppy and somewhat frantic

Oh, now it's clear. That wasn't Mao's video you were watching. Someone just mislabelled the file. Search for a lady with deep edges, able to generate enough speed to cover the ice in two strokes. If you are looking at fast, choppy stroking, you might have gotten a different skater altogether...

13 seconds? Are you sure you counted right? Not 14?

By the time this thread reaches another page, the pause will take half a program. All the better, I say! Isn't it impressive to nail all the remaining elements in the short time that was left?!

 

[Mathman]

Having watched a few broadcasts...I think she already has been deducted in PCS quite a lot.

I agree. At 2007 Worlds Mao's PCSs were about 3 points higher (63.49) than this year, for a pretty good but not quite perfect program.

Since the rest of her 2008 performance after the fall was at least as good as last year, it looks like she lost about 3 points overall in PCSs for the break in continuity in the the first 20 seconds (or do I mean 21? ).

At Eric Bompard this season she got 60.96 in PCSs for her long program, about the same as Worlds. This program featured a downgrade and fall on her triple Axel (not as bad as her fall at Worlds), together with another downgrade and an e call. Granted, it's hard to compare scores from two different events. But this, too, seems to be fairly consistent scoring.

Mao's not-so-good Eric Bompard performance was judged about equal to her excellent-but-with-a-major-break performance at Worlds.

 

[summervie]

By the time this thread reaches another page, the pause will take half a program. All the better, I say! Isn't it impressive to nail all the remaining elements in the short time that was left?!

You know, jokes aside, I still can't believe some people are actually counting seconds there. Whatever your tastes and favorites are. Whatever your personal problems are... Why?..
The understanding of this fact is completely beyond me.

 

[Tinymavy15]

I saw the fall on-line and then on tv and was shocked how long it took her to get it back together! It looked like she was really lost and didn't know what to do. In real time, looking at the YouTube it was about 13 seconds before she stops just stroking hands down by her side and actually does something else. She gets up and covers the diagonal of the ice without any arm movement, turns a corner without any arm movements and then another turn and then starts her arm movements. Compared to 4C's there are a number of brackets, arm movements and a spread eagle in that space. It did disrup the program significantly but it was so early that I am thinking the judges dismissed it.

What she had was not just a fall. She could have easily went to the referee and had them stop the music so she could get her head back together. A fall like that not only is a shock, it could have been very dangerous. you can't just bounce up into a spread eagle after that.

 

[SkatingAnalyst]

If 3 points deduction is adequate for that big fall... , Mao's PCS shud be between 56 ~ 57.
In more recent GPF and 4 Continents... Mao got 59.20 and 60.40 with perfect program
with 3-Axel ....

 

[Mathman]

Hmm. I am surprised that her scores were so low in those events. I would have supposed that with a perfect program Mao is capable of getting pretty close to straight 8s (64 points total).

Knock that down two notches to 7.5s (60 total), and this is what I would expect of a skate like the one she just delivered at Worlds.

 

[summervie]

It's such a pity Tarasova didn't comment this event. Remembering her overemotional commentary on Mao's GPF Long Program, I can only guess what it would be this time.

 

[SkatingAnalyst]

People make mistakes...

Judges are people TOO... They had NO OTHER CHOICES !

I understood the judges !

 

[Bennett]

I think that Yukari's PCSs were just as high as they could go up. She was receiving much lower scores until GPF. She said that she was working on it and I am really happy that she finally got good PCSs.
I think that Caro, Yuna, Mao, and Miki generally have better skating skills and better edges in steps than Yukari does. So I think that her PCSs here were actually a great achievement for Yukari and I would like to congratulate her.

For the same reason, I am not surprised that Caro, Yuna, Mao, and Miki tend to receive similar PCSs, with Mao and Yuna a bit higher than Caro and Miki. But in this particular competition, I feel that Yuna could have scored higher than she did because of being nearly clean. I wonder why. Perhaps she was not as fast and sparkling as she usually is because of the health? I am really sad that neither Yuna nor Miki was healthy here. I am really sad and dissapointed about that. I also feel that this year's program might not have been really the best for her, despite her brilliant talent to express the music. This was a good program but not as appealing and beautiful as her last year's. She might have scored higher if she had used the previous year's program.

In terms of the comparison between Mao and Caro, I think that both had great programs. Caro's was really a wonderful program with great maturity and she was getting more and more brilliant this season in her artistry. But unfortunately, I felt that Caro was getting a bit tired towards the end in her program here. Her steps didn't look like the highlight. I really liked her program so that I am sorry that I couldn't see a clean one this season. But should it have been skated clean, it would have been a wonderful program.

In contrast, Mao damaged her program in the beginning and was brilliant as usual after that. If she fell at the middle or at the last, she might have gotten lower PCSs. But it helped that it was the opening jump before doing anything.

Above all, this is really a wonderful music for her and she was very beautiful in expressing the music. So it helped that she was truly strong in the artistic aspect on top of her skating skills. I agree that she might have scored much higher in her PCSs if she had skated clean.

Another thing compared to other skaters may be the preference for the style. I think that Mao's program would really appeal to people who appreciate classical European style. Here it happened to be in Sweden and I heard that many of the judges were from Europe. I feel that judges here might have preferred that style although this is just my naive speculation.

I would have wished to see Mao skate clean here because her ending was more beautiful than GPF or 4CC where the final spin and the last jump looked very busy. I also liked her modified costume here better than that in 4CC. So I would have really liked to see the perfect one here. This one is unfortunately too scary to watch repeatedly. But I am heartily impressed by her great come back and calm beauty and elegance after the disasterous fall.

 

[Kinga]

I just studied both and it just seems to me that Mao is just glide glide and Poof! a little jump, glide glide and Poof! a big jump big jump little jump and glide glide again, etc. etc. and throws the airplane arms every which way. Her music was not even conducive to what she was doing out there.

Carolina on the other hand, she's has the movie star presence. .

I might not agree with you about Carolina's presentation (still a lot of to work on), but I totally agree what you wrote about Mao. Her programmes are pretty good, but not more than that.

 

[kikakiks]

Having watched a few broadcasts... (Congrats to ESPN for much better camera angles...) I think she already has been deducted in PCS quite a lot. From all the praises given by various commentators - from Uncle Dick & Peggy, through Chris & Nicky, Kurt & Tracy, to Robin Cousins from BBS, one might expect even bigger scores.




Sure it wasn't at the scores? Because the audience certainly booed when Yukari's and YuNa's scores went up, placing them behind Caro. They were pretty happy with Mao scores, though.



Sure she did - for dear life, even. I called that "rocking horse" spiral. Irina was a master at it, too...



Oh, now it's clear. That wasn't Mao's video you were watching. Someone just mislabelled the file. Search for a lady with deep edges, able to generate enough speed to cover the ice in two strokes. If you are looking at fast, choppy stroking, you might have gotten a different skater altogether...



By the time this thread reaches another page, the pause will take half a program. All the better, I say! Isn't it impressive to nail all the remaining elements in the short time that was left?!

I find this post to have a very irritating tone...you shouldn't treat others' opinions like that...I am not going to answer your comments....just delusional...

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

None of the Ladies leave me breathless. I find Mao very entertaining; Carolina is moderately entertaining, and I missed YuNa's previous competitions where I feel she is the best developing artist.

I have no problem with the results.

Joe

 

[capcomop]

You know, jokes aside, I still can't believe some people are actually counting seconds there. Whatever your tastes and favorites are. Whatever your personal problems are... Why?..
The understanding of this fact is completely beyond me.

Another posted stated it took 1/2 a minute for her to recover then another that it was less then 10 seconds. I went and watched and watched the timer running. If everyobdy has opinion about how long her recovery took why shouldn't I offer my view of it! Why is that so strange?
It speaks to how much of a disruption it made to the program.

 

[capcomop]

Sure she did - for dear life, even. I called that "rocking horse" spiral. Irina was a master at it, too...

Mao's spirals aren't that bad. It sure is mean to say that.

Oh whoops...Not a lot of fun having your comments taken out of context and misquoted eh?