She was doing her job. Wasn’t she hired to talk skating?She was/is the best American skater we had the last years, and she gets no respect because she was rightfully elected to the Olympic team, a few years back.Since then everything she says or do is scrutinize. I watch her skating beautifuly at SOI, and that made me really happy. She was best of all our beautiful girls there, and yet some fans are not willing to give her the credit she deserves because of USFS decisions. That’s all I am going to say on the subject.
Ashley Wagner to skip Grand Prix Series
- Thread starter IceBallerina
- Start date
- Joined
- Dec 29, 2013
She can say what she wants and people can respond to it in kind. Not sure where the double standard is there.
- Joined
- Mar 22, 2018
Welp, isn't this witch hunting at its finest. Seriously guys in 2018 one would think we were pass such sexist ways. I just love how male skaters can be blunt about what they think and no one bats an eyelash, but suddenly a lady is anything less than perfect and gracious and oh my, she is a horrible human being.
- Joined
- Feb 25, 2014
Issues with Ashley's tone have been litigated for years at this point. I'll just say that I don't always feel that being simultaneously self-deprecating is a "pass" for some of the comments she's made, and the context in which she makes them doesn't often allow for the other skater to defend themselves. That is why I admired Alina's response.
- Joined
- Dec 29, 2013
I can’t speak for anyone but myself so I’ll steer clear of any generalizations of people but shade is shade. I have no idea what sex has to do with content of comment. I don’t care what sex ya are....you get the same scrutiny from me....well almost. I’m probably more lenient on women then men though because I guess I have less patience with my own gender.
In general...a slip or heat of the moment of smack talk that is out of character can be funny and I tend to overlook those. When it becomes part of your character to criticize others publicly...I can see why more and more people start to get fed up over time. I’ve been triggered by Ashley before...now I just expect it and hardly ever think twice about it. . Doesn’t bother me much...if she feels the need then so be it.
Its just attacking fellow competitors / fellow skaters is not a good look. And this have continued for years, with Ashley calling young russian skaters sonograms, and throwing all that shade "I know that to do with my body because I ve been doing it for years, and then young russians break there is new one", just like nationalistic drivel that Christine Brennan writes. I dislike Eteri Tutberidze, but at least she teaches her skaters that discussing their competition is unethical, which Ashley/Meagan Duhamel doesn't seem to understand.
Ashley Wagner is definitely is best US skater since Sasha Cohen retirement, but the thing is she never been a good sport, always shady/angry at competition. After her Olympics tweets I knew she is not coming back to competition, if she was she would be looked at like she has plague by other skaters. She is smart enough to understand this.
Ashley Wagner is definitely is best US skater since Sasha Cohen retirement, but the thing is she never been a good sport, always shady/angry at competition. After her Olympics tweets I knew she is not coming back to competition, if she was she would be looked at like she has plague by other skaters. She is smart enough to understand this.
- Joined
- Sep 14, 2014
Oh my God, the fact she is 'self aware', which I don't really think she is but just uses it to deflect from her critics and to increase her ego doesn't justify her being an absolute b..ch to Boyang. The fact she apparently has done it earlier only adds to it. Yes, she's also been positive, but she is, although basically retired, still an active skater, not a figure skating critic or commentator. Her Alina comments seemed good to me since she was right about backloading being a problem, however, I'm biased as hell on that point so I'm gonna give it to you when you say she was sounding jealous. And mainly, the hypocrisy of jers calling out Boyang and not Nathan who is worse than Boyang, sorry not sorry. I used to support her, but she needs to tone down her ego. Although it's probably better that she's outspoken, she has a right to say it, I prefer skatets saying stupid things than skaters lying and being too diplomatic to be honest.
I think Ashley can say whatever she wants and honestly it's complex because I do think there's a legitimate problem with double standards regarding women giving criticism compared to men. Which is why I think people need to be careful, in taking issue with her comments, not to resort to witch hunting or calling her names (especially ones that are clearly sexist), which I've seen on Twitter quite a bit. I feel that delegitimizes a disagreement.
But that doesn't mean, however, people shouldn't take issue or disagree with the comments. And I did have issues with the comments. I am a Boyang fan, so perhaps the comments were harsher, but seriously there wouldn't have been a moral/sport outrage if Boyang had medaled, which is kind of what her tweet seem to indicate.
But I'm not that much of an Alina fan and I though that it was kinda unnecessary, especially in the middle of the competition, that essentially she didn't qualify for. You can talk about the program layouts and your issues with backloading without directing it at another skater or group of skaters. I'm hoping that perhaps she brought this up to people who can make decisions rather than making a bunch of one-off tweets about the issues.
I also think you can also disagree while respecting what she's brought to the sport and her impact on the U.S. Ladies. And I think she still has much to offer should she decide to step away from competitive skating. And I wish her the best as she makes those decisions.
But that doesn't mean, however, people shouldn't take issue or disagree with the comments. And I did have issues with the comments. I am a Boyang fan, so perhaps the comments were harsher, but seriously there wouldn't have been a moral/sport outrage if Boyang had medaled, which is kind of what her tweet seem to indicate.
But I'm not that much of an Alina fan and I though that it was kinda unnecessary, especially in the middle of the competition, that essentially she didn't qualify for. You can talk about the program layouts and your issues with backloading without directing it at another skater or group of skaters. I'm hoping that perhaps she brought this up to people who can make decisions rather than making a bunch of one-off tweets about the issues.
I also think you can also disagree while respecting what she's brought to the sport and her impact on the U.S. Ladies. And I think she still has much to offer should she decide to step away from competitive skating. And I wish her the best as she makes those decisions.
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- Joined
- Dec 29, 2013
^Ashley has and continues to inspire skaters on the ice at all levels. I see it everyday! That’s why it’s such a shame that her comments always seem to follow her around in such a negative way. It really should be her skating that gets people talking...she really did a lot of good things and had an interesting career on the ice.
I agree with you totally. I usually do as I find your comments well-grounded, fair and rational. Ashley stirs up comments from others that I find indeed to be sexist at times and reactionary.
- Joined
- Mar 15, 2014
I kept hearing people say she wants to become a commentator. Oh the popcorn in America would be so buttery. Not that powder butter either...that movie liquid butter stuff!!
Yes! Delicious yellow chemical sludge...
I agree and her career speaks to what can happen when you believe in yourself and put in the work. I always admired her for taking what she has and making the most of it.
I think in the end, it’s good to remember that people are complex beings. God knows there are things I say that I hope people can take at face value and not be used to make some moral judgement against me.
- Joined
- Dec 9, 2017
Much like Wagner's nonsense? Agreed. If she can voice an opinion, so can I. Feel free to do so yourself.
I am not determined to hate Ashley Wagner based on everything she says or does. But as a public figure, she will absolutely get flack for voicing her opinions in the wrong way. I couldn't care less about her "furious" remarks, because she had the right to be furious with her PCS scores at Nationals (though, of course, nothing about the tech calls that she didn't get. Why? Seems like a double standard to me, much like the posters here are claiming her dissenters here have.). Much like with fame come people who will defend her, there will be dissenters. I just happen to be someone who takes issue with the way she voices her opinions.
Here's something I considered horrific: https://twitter.com/AshWagner2010/status/966910244474376192
Tweeted right after the US ladies bombed at the Olympics, I believe. Please feel free to read the first reply to it, and her response.
Here's another two:
https://twitter.com/AshWagner2010/status/965140476893413376
https://twitter.com/AshWagner2010/status/965138246903545856
When she was hardly getting "absolutely hurtful" words for voicing her opinions, more the way she was voicing them, and the way she kept avoiding the tweets at her about Nathan's and Vincent's programs. She kept going after Boyang, instead of tweeting fully formed, even, objective opinions about all skaters. Of course she got some flack! How is what she tweeted "self-awareness"? Seemed like she was supporting skaters from the US, and decided to go after their competitor. "Understandable", but trying to paint what was happening the way she did in that second tweet -- awareness that is not.
And the first tweet: Oh, if only it were so simple.
It's even "funnier" when you consider that she first went after Boyang's SP for crossovers. His SP wasn't the program that had a lack of transitions, though not the most complex or difficult ones, sure. So her opinion wasn't even valuable or informative. Just plainly wrong. And if she's done it before with him, then this seems even stupider to not recognize there have been changes that have been made. Or is she determined to not see them, for some reason?
https://twitter.com/AshWagner2010/status/964369428950364161
If she was tweeting to be considered an objective, knowledgeable voice, she failed. Of course, she could just have been tweeting just to show support. But then, of course people called her out on picking one person out to constantly criticize, and then ultimately say this: https://twitter.com/AshWagner2010/status/964726535910342656
About Zagitova: Sure, she backloaded. If, again, Wagner wanted to be considered a knowledgeable or useful voice, she could have tweeted properly about what exactly was wrong about her programs, and why backoading makes for poor programs, or perhaps why Zagitova shouldn't be getting a bonus for her jumps. This was made even worse in some people's eyes when they considered that Wagner and Zagitova were direct competitors. It's really not about the opinion here, for me, and competitors can criticize others' work, but it's the way she voiced it.
Or, you know, they'll get called out on their wrong/poorly voiced opinions, when posters here see something wrong. It's how conversation works.
Was Evgeni Plushencko a woman when he got flack for his "platinum medal" comment? Was Patrick Chan a woman when he... well there's a lot of stuff that he's said that's rubbed people the wrong way, I think.
It's not that difficult to understand criticism against Ashley Wagner. But let me draw a (perhaps not the best) comparison: If Wagner were instead a famous scientist tweeting opinions about other people's work the way she did, would she get flack? If she tried to say something wrong, and then pass off criticism as "hurtful words", is that something that would be taken to kindly? On the other hand, if she did it more respectfully, would people simply engage in a discourse with her?
Her getting criticism for it isn't the "tone police" coming after her, it's simply people disagreeing with her in the same way she voices her opinions. It's hardly a revolutionary concept, it's not her getting hate for "being herself". But then she goes ahead and tweets stuff about getting hated on. Her fame shouldn't be a safeguard against criticism. But Twitter has unfortunately given people an excuse to just paint all criticism as "hate". She shouldn't be getting called names, and the sexist remarks need to go, but seriously, no.
- Joined
- Dec 9, 2017
Twitter has an outrage factory as much as it has echo chambers. It's even sadder when you consider that people make these things all on their own: the ones who agree are part of their personal echo chamber, the rest a part of their personal outrage factory.
- Joined
- Jan 22, 2015
You Guys are so easily scandalized 
go watch nba or hockey-this is some of the tamest pg rated trash talk compared to the stuff that goes on there. I can’t believe people are still debating about it. Well actually I can since I’m on golden skate where Ashley is the meanest most untalented skater to ever skate :sarcasm:
go watch nba or hockey-this is some of the tamest pg rated trash talk compared to the stuff that goes on there. I can’t believe people are still debating about it. Well actually I can since I’m on golden skate where Ashley is the meanest most untalented skater to ever skate :sarcasm:- Joined
- Feb 14, 2018
You Guys are so easily scandalized
I’m fine with her talking trash as long as she can accept criticism, and as long as there is a precedent for trading jabs between competitors. Figure skating, despite some notable exceptions, has no such precedent. I also get really heated when people pull the sexism card, because it is a real issue that should no be made light of.
Also, boyang and Alina are just such weird targets. Alina is a child!
- Joined
- Dec 9, 2017
You Guys are so easily scandalized
Ah, the "there's worse out there" rebuttal.
- Joined
- Mar 23, 2014
I just don't understand why we can't move on from the crap Ashley has said and stick to the topic at hand. We don't need to continuously re-litigate every controversial comment an athlete makes. She made some negative comments about people's skating in a pretty poor way, but she didn't insult anyone personally or attack them directly.
Anyway, I think Ashley is done competing. She loves to skate and perform, but I think now she's had a break from training at the competitive level, she's not going to want to go back to that level of discipline, and I'm sure she doesn't want to go to Nationals and have USFS embarrass her again.
IMO (don't attack me) she should've been at the Olympics over Karen, and I'm sad that Mirai and Adam are the big public famous bff besties now when Ashley and Adam's friendship has been such a joy over the past four years and knowing how much they worked together to accomplish what they did during this past Olympic cycle.
Anyway, I think Ashley is done competing. She loves to skate and perform, but I think now she's had a break from training at the competitive level, she's not going to want to go back to that level of discipline, and I'm sure she doesn't want to go to Nationals and have USFS embarrass her again.
IMO (don't attack me) she should've been at the Olympics over Karen, and I'm sad that Mirai and Adam are the big public famous bff besties now when Ashley and Adam's friendship has been such a joy over the past four years and knowing how much they worked together to accomplish what they did during this past Olympic cycle.
- Joined
- Mar 23, 2014
When you're competing in an elite sport at the highest level, you're not going to be treated like a child, and you're as open to criticism as any adult you are competing against.
- Joined
- Feb 14, 2018
^^^^ I respect that. I love Karen’s skating, but Ashley would have been a more stable competitor at Olys and worlds. I too don’t think we’ll see her again. Regardless of my personal opinion of her, she is the most successful U.S lady in a long time.
