Ban on Carolina Kostner Over

[AsadaFanBoy]

So she should pay for it with her money and the time she can use to pursue her post-competitive career? Because she was unfortunate enough to have been in a serious relationship with someone she trusted but who turned out to be a lying cheat?

Of course she knew who the people asking for Schwazer were, but she saw it as a much more minor whereabouts issue.

Anti-doping agencies do not have the legal authority to make anyone do community service. Nor should they be given such power; if a country has criminalized doping, it should be up to the judicial system to deal with sentencing, and the anti-doping bodies should stick to sports bans and suspensions.

Well she also lied.

And I don't think you personally know her motivations or her mind. Unless you suddenly gained the power to read someone's mind...

 

[solani]

She still committed a crime.

I don't think she did. Lying is not a crime unless you do it in court. I don't think she knowingly assisted her then boyfriend in covering up his doping. I give her the benefit of the doubt. As far as I know there is no hard evidence against her.

 

[Icey]

Sorry, psusanne, but lying does not have to occur in a court for it to be a crime. Lying to an officer investigating a crime is a crime. I don't think Kostner committed a legal crime, but she violated the rules of the organizations whose rules she had agreed to follow.

 

[solani]

Sorry, psusanne, but lying does not have to occur in a court for it to be a crime. Lying to an officer investigating a crime is a crime. I don't think Kostner committed a legal crime, but she violated the rules of the organizations whose rules she had agreed to follow.

Yes, but I think that we agree, that this kind of offense is rarely punished. I posted a link yesterday, I think it covers the whole topic rather nicely.
http://www.newyorker.com/news/sporting-scene/carolina-kostner-anti-doping
It points out, that this case is really unique and that American governing bodies regard the area of boyfriends and girlfriends as “slippery slope".

 

[cruzceleste]

Yes, but I think that we agree, that this kind of offense is rarely punished. I posted a link yesterday, I think it covers the whole topic rather nicely.
http://www.newyorker.com/news/sporting-scene/carolina-kostner-anti-doping
It points out, that this case is really unique and that American governing bodies regard the area of boyfriends and girlfriends as “slippery slope".

I think there is something in the way the article is redacted:
They said Carolina just told the official that Alex wasn´t home, but they are no making clear that he was in fact in there, and she didn´t told the true to the authorities.

Some of the points touched in the article had already being discussed in this thread:

• Carolina is an athlete so she was subject to WADA regulations
• She knew that lying was wrong
• Her punishement is for lying, helping Alex avoid CODI´s controls

Yes, maybe if Carolina wasn´t an athlete she would have gone with out punishement but she is an athlete and so she was. If you think the punishement was way to strong is another debate.

In general I don´t think this article made a case for Carolina not being deserving of punishement, only made me think that is one of the worst aticles I have read in the New Yorker.

 

[solani]

I think there is something in the way the article is redacted:
They said Carolina just told the official that Alex wasn´t home, but they are no making clear that he was in fact in there, and she didn´t told the true to the authorities.

Some of the points touched in the article had already being discussed in this thread:

• Carolina is an athlete so she was subject to WADA regulations
• She knew that lying was wrong
• Her punishement is for lying, helping Alex avoid CODI´s controls

Yes, maybe if Carolina wasn´t an athlete she would have gone with out punishement but she is an athlete and so she was. If you think the punishement was way to strong is another debate.

In general I don´t think this article made a case for Carolina not being deserving of punishement, only made me think that is one of the worst aticles I have read in the New Yorker.

It made it clear that it is very difficult to go this way.
And she wasn't banned for lying, she was banned for assisting in covering up doping. It's a huge difference to me. (Did she know that there was dope in her fridge? Did she know who Dr. Ferrari was? etc. Are athletes to spy on their boyfriends/girlfriends if they're athletes as well? Do they even have to report them if they find out? Assisting trainers f.e. is a whole different thing to me.)

 

[Buttercup]

Well she also lied.

And I don't think you personally know her motivations or her mind. Unless you suddenly gained the power to read someone's mind...

I do have the power to read, which is all that's needed in this case. It's part of her testimony and she has spoken about it in interviews.

Also, contrary to what you suggest, Kostner has not committed any crime. At most she has committed an infraction against anti-doping regulations. Even in countries that criminalize doping, what she did does not rise to the level of what the law covers.

So basically, you don't know what you are talking about.

 

[AsadaFanBoy]

I do have the power to read, which is all that's needed in this case. It's part of her testimony and she has spoken about it in interviews.

Also, contrary to what you suggest, Kostner has not committed any crime. At most she has committed an infraction against anti-doping regulations. Even in countries that criminalize doping, what she did does not rise to the level of what the law covers.

So basically, you don't know what you are talking about.

you also don't know if she's telling the truth. YOU don't know what you're talking about. Until the investigation is resolved you don't know. I'm sorry but you don't.

She stored his dope in her refrigerator. I'm sure she looked at what was in there. Maybe she didn't have the sense to ask "what are these things that look like illicit paraphernalia?" but probably she did.

 

[Buttercup]

you also don't know if she's telling the truth. YOU don't know what you're talking about. Until the investigation is resolved you don't know. I'm sorry but you don't.

Hit a nerve, did I? The only information we have as to Kostner's mindset and knowledge is her own testimony. Since nobody has produced any evidence that contradicts it, I see no reason not to take her statements at face value.

She stored his dope in her refrigerator. I'm sure she looked at what was in there. Maybe she didn't have the sense to ask "what are these things that look like illicit paraphernalia?" but probably she did.

No, he stored his dope in her fridge. I've stored medications in my fridge before, and I don't always put them in their easily identifiable boxes. Given that he was doing something that he knew was wrong and did not want to draw attention to himself, I bet the stuff was disguised as something perfectly innocuous. Dietary supplements, or protein stuff, or some food she disliked. She was his girlfriend, not someone investigating him - why would she snoop in his stuff if she trusted him?

You keep making unwarranted assumptions without anything to back them up. Asada deserves better fanboys.

 

[Mathman]

Well she also lied.

And I don't think you personally know her motivations or her mind. Unless you suddenly gained the power to read someone's mind...

What is the point of us fans piling maliciously on? No one appointed you and me to be judge, jury and executioner. More charity, less righteous indignation and rush to judgment -- that's the ticket. :yes:

 

[AsadaFanBoy]

What is the point of us fans piling maliciously on? No one appointed you and me to be judge, jury and executioner. More charity, less righteous indignation and rush to judgment -- that's the ticket. :yes:

Did I pass judgment? No. That's for the courts. Did I say she was guilty? Not exactly. But she did lie to investigators and that was confirmed. Don't do things morally questionable if you're not responsible enough to face the consequences.

And moreover,

it just doesn't look good.

She accompanied him to a doctor who dopes.

And I doubt she was completely ignorant of what was in her refrigerator. Does she drink bottled water? Does she eat takeout and take food to go and store it later? Do you mean to say she never uses that fridge and doesn't look around?

Have you never been hungry and didn't know what was in the fridge so you look around inside? Ever forget if the milk or juice is still good and so you look and you have to poke around in there?


Exactly.

Such drama queens.

 

[solani]

Did I pass judgment?
And I doubt she was completely ignorant of what was in her refrigerator. Does she drink bottled water? Does she eat takeout and take food to go and store it later? Do you mean to say she never uses that fridge and doesn't look around?

I'm pretty sure that the EPO was contained in a box in the fridge, maybe labeled "vitamins" or something. I mean, no one would keep it open in the fridge. My question again: Did she have to spy on him because she's an athlete, too?
I don't check my husband's bediside cabinet, I don't read his eMails or check his phone calls. But I know that there are people who do. And for those people it's always hard to understand, that I just don't. Are you one of them?

 

[karne]

Oh, AsadaFanBoy, don't even try. Apparently because it's Precious Perfect Carolina they should have let her off with nothing and bowed her out of their offices, awed at such a sweet, pure presence.

 

[Interspectator]

As someone who shares fridge space with others, it is a matter of etiquette in my home NOT to go nosing around other people's containers and foodstuffs. It could go both ways. But I think it is completely understandable if she did not know about it.

It could go either way. So, innocent until proven guilty.

 

[Meoima]

It's simple as this.
Did she know he dope? Did she help him? Possibly. But evidence? NO.
Then in the eye of law, she didn't know and didn't help him. The court admitted so.

Should she pay for the lie she made? Yes.
But did that lie have anything to do with her skating career? No.
Did she benefit ANYTHING from that lie? Did she get ANY medal for that lie? No.
Then why the ban on her skating career? Stupid.

 

[peg]

It's simple as this.
Did she know he dope? Did she help him? Possibly. But evidence? NO.
Then in the eye of law, she didn't know and didn't help him. The court admitted so.

Should she pay for the lie she made? Yes.
But did that lie have anything to do with her skating career? No.
Did she benefit ANYTHING from that lie? Did she get ANY medal for that lie? No.
Then why the ban on her skating career? Stupid.

Excellent summary!

 

[AsadaFanBoy]

As someone who shares fridge space with others, it is a matter of etiquette in my home NOT to go nosing around other people's containers and foodstuffs. It could go both ways. But I think it is completely understandable if she did not know about it.

It could go either way. So, innocent until proven guilty.

so if your significant other had something in the fridge and you were hungry, you wouldn't look at what it was? ridiculous.

 

[peg]

so if your significant other had something in the fridge and you were hungry, you wouldn't look at what it was? ridiculous.

Do you really think it was labelled? Why is it so hard to believe that if she asked, he would have told her it was vitamins or nutritional supplements? I wouldn't recognize it if it was in my fridge. My guess is that most people who haven't doped wouldn't either.

 

[Interspectator]

so if your significant other had something in the fridge and you were hungry, you wouldn't look at what it was? ridiculous.

Not if it was labeled vitamins. Not if it wasn't on my shelf. People, even couples, have varying habits and unspoken rules while they cohabitate. Saying it is 'ridiculous' does not make it any more unlikely. It just means that it is ridiculous to you.
That is what benefit of the doubt is for.

 

[satine]

For years my mother, sister, & I had different areas of the fridge for our own personal food items that we didn't want to share (maybe this is an American thing? lol) & then the rest of the fridge was fair play, so to speak. If either of them had something hidden in their parts, I honestly would not have known. One time my sister had even hid a special treat on my birthday in her area & I didn't see it at all until my mother pointed it out. It's not hard for me to believe that a couple would have a small area of the fridge for each person's indulgences.... or that drugs could be hidden behind/among something that Carolina would never touch. hwell: