Campbell's International FS Classic | Page 10 | Golden Skate

Campbell's International FS Classic

This is going to be a little off-topic but...


Does anyone know whether Irina is still taking her medicine or not? Has she made a full recovery from her illness or does she have relapses? (I believe this will be a factor this season in determining her success.)
 
LBC said:
I agree that Sasha maybe about maxed out jump wise. Until we see the protocols we won't know about the levels of the other stuff. The articles said level 4's but maybe not all of them. There is still the component marks. The judges haven't been consistant on those marks. Sasha could get higher component marks. We really won't know a comparison until they all skate at the same competition which probably won't be till GPF.

Yeah, I agree. I really don't think we will get a great indication of how Sasha vs Irina would do until they compete against each other because with different competitions, it is obviously going to be judged by different judges. And the fact that Sasha went first has an effect, even though it's not supposed to I'm sure.
 
Congrats to Sasha for winning her second Campbell's. Her first was '03 with the beautiful black-and-white "Swan Lake." I too think it's silly to make serious predictions for Nationals, Olys, or Worlds based on Campbell's; but one thing about Sasha's '03 "strong start/craptacular end" -- Doggygirl, I LOVE that word :laugh: -- is that it was the season she changed from Tarasova to Robin Wagner and Wagner took TT's gorgeous choreography crapsized it. I'm not saying Sasha couldn't have had a meltdown of her own accord with same coach and/or choreography. I'm just saying '03/04 had what I would call a major factor midway through.

Also congrats to Kimmie Meissner who impressed me mightily when I saw her in person at COI last spring. At least for me, Meissner is one of those skaters who looks much stronger in person than on TV. She has gorgeous, unaffected arms; overall, her skating has the kind of authority that comes from having a strong center, deep knees, and well centered edges; plus she stretches out her moves, so she amplifies her choreography. Like Vash (see his Detailed Campbell's Review thread), I think Meissner will be a major force if she avoids serious injury and the skating gods are otherwise with her. Her fundamental technique both from the skates down and the skates up is superb and at least I found her captivating at COI doing a relatively simple program. I think she's got goods like nobody's business.

Third place for Shizza is kind of a bummer, but I think her '04 World gold came during the "honeymoon" phase with Tarasova (not taking a thing away from Shizza; she was still the one who had to hit the performance) and her '04/05 season came during a combination of "Now we WORK!" phase with TT and Shizza's own psychological adjustments to going from hoping for a bronze to being THE World gold medalist. This year I hope we'll see Shizza's mind and technique equally strong, and her relationship with Tarasova -- is she still coached TT? -- or whomever she is coached by strong too. I love a lot about Arakawa; she's had a long tough career; and I'd be very happy to see her with an Olympic medal, even if it isn't gold, to show she wasn't a one-time wonder. That's not a prediction, just a hope based on liking the skater.

Speaking of which, I feel the same about Sasha, Irina, Michelle, and Fumie. Unfortunately, there is only gold, silver, and bronze, so I'm going to have to do an "Aw, shoot!" with at least two skaters.

And speaking of coaching, since others have mentioned that they felt Sasha never should have left Nicks, I disagree. Back in Mesopotamia, when I was dancing and teaching dance, often the best thing for an advanced dancer who hadn't made it to the professional level was a several months to a year or more away from his/her usual instructor or group of instructors, no matter how great they were. Without going into the reasons why, I don't think Sasha would be the skater she is today had she not trained with both Tarasova and Wagner. I agree that Nicks is the best coach for her now, but I feel strongly that Sasha needed to visit the land of Oz in order to appreciate what he has to offer.

Right now my hope is that Michelle recovers and that everyone stays healthy, including the coaches -- remember Carlo Fassi and Worlds '9?, when he died the day before pupil Nicole Bobek's LP? Both skaters and coaches, not to mention parents and families, are going to need everything they've got during this Olympic season.

Rgirl
 
Rgirl,

Tarasova was at Campbell's as Shizuka's coach, giving her advice at the boards, and sitting next to her in the K&C. Her coaches were listed in the program as Tarasova, Platov, Nanami Abe.

Vash
 
Rgirl said:
remember Carlo Fassi and Worlds '9?, when he died the day before pupil Nicole Bobek's LP?
Rgirl

That was worlds in 1997, i remember Robin Cousins was commentating for the BBC and he was on the program briefly for the start of the coverage and talked about Carlo Fassi's death (as he'd been Robin's coach) and then he ran off to be with Nicole as he'd offered to take her through the morning practice and step in for Carlo for the LP. The sad thingwas that he said she's really kept it together and landed all the jumps int he morning's practice.

Ant
 
Lucy25 said:
It also says not to get too excited about this news because this combo is not very consistant in practice, and no where does it say that she is actually planning on including this combination in her program. Skaters practice lots of things that never make it into the program.

Would she also have to ditch the 3Lz/2t/2t because under the new rules i thought you were only allowed one three jump combo now.

Ant
 
mzheng said:
Under CoP only one 3jump comb allowed. I don't understand the strategy to work 2n 3jump comb.:scratch:

Well if the reviews i've read are right, at Campbells she had 6 triples plus a double axel. Currently her 3Lz/2T/2T has a base value of 8.6 a 2A/3T/2Lp would get her a base value of 8.8 so not only would the second combination get her slightly more points than the first it would, more importanly, free up one of her jumping passes for another triple jump which even if its "just" a 3T would get an another 4 points base value to the program.

Ant
 
antmanb said:
Well if the reviews i've read are right, at Campbells she had 6 triples plus a double axel. Currently her 3Lz/2T/2T has a base value of 8.6 a 2A/3T/2Lp would get her a base value of 8.8 so not only would the second combination get her slightly more points than the first it would, more importanly, free up one of her jumping passes for another triple jump which even if its "just" a 3T would get an another 4 points base value to the program.

Ant
She can only put one 3 jump comb in the LP with 2 other 2 jump combs as max of 3 comb is allowed. It doesn't matter what type of jump in comb. The max points on jump (without quad and 3A) would be 5 diff type then repeat the 3Z and 3F, withe some double tag in end as combs. The 3 jump comb you pointed out if replaced what she had now, the difference in total jump points would only in 2loop and 2toe. She can always using 2loop at the end of her combs.
 
mzheng said:
She can only put one 3 jump comb in the LP with 2 other 2 jump combs as max of 3 comb is allowed. It doesn't matter what type of jump in comb. The max points on jump (without quad and 3A) would be 5 diff type then repeat the 3Z and 3F, withe some double tag in end as combs. The 3 jump comb you pointed out if replaced what she had now, the difference in total jump points would only in 2loop and 2toe. She can always using 2loop at the end of her combs.

That's not quite correct though - in the ladies competition you can only do seven triples if you do a 3/3 combination or a 2A/3 combination because one of the seven jumping passes must be an axel type jump therefore without a 3/3 or 2A/3 the best Sasha (or any skater) can do is 6 triples plus the double axel, if she does the planned 2A/3T/2Lp then she frees up another jumping pass to get the seventh triple.

Ant
 
So that raises the question as to which is harder, a 3/3 or a 2A/3. If Sasha has decided that a 3/3 is not in the cards for her this season, will a 2A combo be any easier to master?

But I think MZheng's question was about tacking the 2 Loop on the end to make it a three jump combo, when she has already done a 3L/2T/2T. LBC gives a possible answer in post 177 above -- maybe she wants to have the second one in her arsenal so she can ad lib it in case she misses the first.

MM
 
Last edited:
Mathman said:
So that raises the question as to which is harder, a 3/3 or a 2A/3. If Sasha has decided that a 3/3 is not in the cards for her this season, will a 2A combo be any easier to master?

But I think MZheng's question was about tacking the 2 Loop on the end to make it a three jump combo, when she has already done a 3L/2T/2T. LBC gives a possible answer in post 177 above -- maybe she wants to have the second one in her arsenal so she can ad lib it in case she misses the first.

MM

I would say that a 3/3 is harder than a 2A/3 - since the 2A is a half turn less than a triple and is usually the same size as the other jumps the skater does i think its easier because its easier to check the rotation from a 2.5 rev air spin than a 3rev airpsin which means you are more likely to be checked out and in the perfect position on a smoother edge with more speed to go into the triple toe.

Re the second combination of Sasha's what did she actually do at the weekend - did she have the 3/2/2 and two other two jump combos or just one?

Ant
 
I'm not putting Sasha down when I say I will be looking closely for a true lutz. Irina has lutzes. In fact ALL Russian skaters do the correct lutz. Japanese, too.
Someday they will downgrade an attempted lutz to a flip and will that screw up the scores!

Joe
 
Joesitz said:
I'm not putting Sasha down when I say I will be looking closely for a true lutz. Irina has lutzes. In fact ALL Russian skaters do the correct lutz. Japanese, too.
Someday they will downgrade an attempted lutz to a flip and will that screw up the scores!

Joe

Ah but by the same token a lot of the russian girls tend to lip their flips which is just as bad a crime but hasn't had the media attention of the flutz because its the US girls that tend to Flutz so that becomes more widely talked about!

Ant
 
antmanb said:
Ah but by the same token a lot of the russian girls tend to lip their flips which is just as bad a crime but hasn't had the media attention of the flutz because its the US girls that tend to Flutz so that becomes more widely talked about!Ant
What would the Caller say in the future: skater did a lutz but the intent was flipl. Upgrade it.:thumbsup:

Clear up both these messes. If the scores show there is a problem, skaters will present true lutzes and true flips.

Joe
 
antmanb said:
Re the second combination of Sasha's what did she actually do at the weekend - did she have the 3/2/2 and two other two jump combos or just one?

Ant

From reports, she did 7 triples, with 3 combos. 3z/2t/2l, 3f/2t, and 3t/3s sequence like the one she did at Worlds. Actually the jump layout sounds exactly like Worlds.
 
the best athlete in the world has to be the best competitor that's why Irina is the best. Sasha is becoming more consistent and a better competitor which is nice to see:biggrin:
 
bdreampixie said:
From reports, she did 7 triples, with 3 combos. 3z/2t/2l, 3f/2t, and 3t/3s sequence like the one she did at Worlds. Actually the jump layout sounds exactly like Worlds.

Actually Sasha did 6 triples and a double axel. I checked my notes again.

Combos; 3L-2t-2R and a 3f-2t

I think you are right on the layout of the jumps.
 
Joesitz said:
Someday they will downgrade an attempted lutz to a flip and will that screw up the scores!
Maybe someday, but not in this Olympic cycle. Skaters are not penalized for poor entrances of any kind, including pre-rotating, which happens even more than flutz/lips. As long as the jumps are landed cleanly and not cheated on the end, the skaters will receive full credit. Why should skaters waste time correcting these problems if it won't improve their scores?
 
antmanb said:
That's not quite correct though - in the ladies competition you can only do seven triples if you do a 3/3 combination or a 2A/3 combination because one of the seven jumping passes must be an axel type jump therefore without a 3/3 or 2A/3 the best Sasha (or any skater) can do is 6 triples plus the double axel, if she does the planned 2A/3T/2Lp then she frees up another jumping pass to get the seventh triple.

Ant

My point was if she already had a 3Z/2T/2L(or 2T) in her program she can't do 2A/3T/2Lp cuz rule is not allowed. Sure she can do 2A/3T to free up a jump pass in order to do a 7 triples if she does not have a 3/3 already. And even she has one already, she can use the jump pass to tackle in another 2A, like Crolina did last year. The key was she can't do TWO 3 jump comb in LP....That's why I question if the it was wise to spend time on another 2/3/2 while you can only have ONE 3 jump comb in LP.
 
Back
Top