Caroline Zhang - the most graceful of the bunch

[feraina]

No offense, but how can you possibly know that?

The head judge said that the tech panel asked to review the jump for evaluation of a possible 'e' call. But we can see that ultimately they decided to mark it '<' (weird) and not 'e' (also weird). Caroline's coach also said that it was a button-press mistake. What authority does a tech panel have over the ruling of a jump? Just 'e' and '<' right?

So, no, I don't know for absolutely sure that this was what happened, but given all the evidence it seems highly probable.

I can try to ascertain for sure if people really want. MingZhu Li's blog allows comments, and sometimes she replies. But is it worth it??

ETA: scroll down to Jan. 25 entry on the following page to see what the Chief Referee said about the score change.
http://www.iceskatingintnl.com/current/content/usnats08.htm

Following her skate, Zhang's triple Lutz was reviewed for an edge call. In the review it was decided to downgrade the jump.

I would much rather believe that the tech panel made one careless mistake of pressing the '<' button instead of the 'e' button, than that they were totally incompetent and completely missed the 'e' AND meant to press some other button instead of the '<' button.

 

[oleada]

Thanks for the info. I didn't know there was more substantial information on the issue rather than just speculation. Unfortunately (for Caroline in this case), mistakes happen.

However I don't think she was unfairly judged at US Nationals, aside from that error. Obviously you're a Caroline fan and I'm not, so I don't think we'll ever agree on that issue.

 

[Sllippery]

Her coach summarized their experience at nationals.
http://blog.sina.com.cn/limingzhublog

They were originally planning to rest for one week since they didn't plan to go to Jr. Worlds. They were planning to improve her technique, preparing the SP and LP for next season. Now the plan has changed a bit since U.S. federation wants them to go to Jr. Worlds so they don't have time resting.

Thanks for your detail information.
(I can read the blog of her coach due to the different language though)

Caroline has enjoyed a very wonderful debut at GPS at 14 years old, and has a wonderful season, which she and her coach should be proud of.
So, if they need some rests for a battery charge, I think they can have a choice to skip the Jr. World, can't they?

If I remember correctly, Ms. Katy Taylor had skipped the Jr. World for some reason although she had an assignment.

Still, I have a hunch something good is going to happen, like Caroline can become the first lady to win the Jr. World Title for the second consecutive year. Isn’t it great?

I don’t think U.S. judges or any related parties would never and ever have an ill feeling against Caroline. She is an adorable and a talented skater to be cherished by everyone, isn’t she?

 

[demarinis5]

IMO, Caroline is the most graceful of the bunch of the new baby American skaters.

I agree. I like all of the newbie American young ladies. We are fortunate to have so much talent. But I do admit I have a soft spot for Caroline.

 

[PolymerBob]

The one good thing about all these judging issues is that they didn't cost Caroline anything. Had she come in 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th or 5th, she would still be heading for the same place - Bulgaria. From what I hear, all ISU judges are required to graduate from the Zurich Button Pressing Academy. So I don't think we will see this nonsense at Junior Worlds.

 

[demarinis5]

From what I hear, all ISU judges are required to graduate from the Zurich Button Pressing Academy. So I don't think we will see this nonsense at Junior Worlds.

 

[bekalc]

If Caroline's 3Lz hadn't been downgraded (a mandatory -3 GOE, like Ashley's 3F out of footwork at 4cc), she would've place either 4th or 5th, right around Kimmie's score, and she would've skated in the last group -- in which case she would've probably gotten slightly higher PCS. Plus the tech panel really should've caught Ashley's flutzes, and some of Mirai's UR's. And so the final outcome of the top four might have been somewhat different.

Actually, when they added the jump back in, Caroline still was in the penultimate group.

 

[feraina]

Actually, when they added the jump back in, Caroline still was in the penultimate group.

You are right, the initial score changed would've only swapped Caroline with Bebe, but that wasn't the whole story.

The tech panel only added back the base value of the jump from 2Z to 3Z, but then later they asked the judges to re-mark the GOE (which with the 'e' instead of the '<' would be closer to -1.5 instead of -3), and that was when they discovered that they couldn't change the scores after all -- it is this need for re-evaluation of GOE that disqualities a downgrade call from being correctable, because it involves the judging panel as well as the tech panel. If it had been a solely tech panel matter, like the mis-labeling of a call (e.g. 3F instead of 3Z) or wrong level (lev1 spiral instead of lev4), then the tech panel correction would have stood.

When the based value was added back to Caroline's score, it stood thus:
Kimmie Meissner 57.58
Katrina Hacker 56.87
Caroline Zhang 55.95

So with another 1.2-1.5 added to the GOE, she would've beat out Katrina Hacker for 6th and therefore be in the last group. In fact, she would've been very close to Kimmie. As I said before, a 1-triple SP probably resulted in a lower PCS as well, with so little difference between her score and Kimmie's, maybe the boost of PCS would've made a difference. Remember that Caroline just under-rotated her 3-3<, while Kimmie did a 3Lz-2T, and fell on the 3F which I believe was also under-rotated.