Chen: 'That was pretty rough'

[Yatagarasu]

biggest surprise was the fact that there seemed to be no outrage in the SA Men's FS thread here over the fact that Nathan got 87 PCS for that joke of a program when all that's been happening in the past two months are people screaming about how unfair Mikhail's/Javi's/Shoma's/Yuzu's PCS was for their flawed performances. People literally bend over backwards to feed into their delusions that Nathan 'The Wunderkind' Chen is just that good

Actually, I think it wasn't a surprise at all; here you should always expect just that. It's hilarious to be honest. They'll go back to being outraged about Kolyada for the GPF, worry not.

It's an absolute joke he got this PCS for that program but hey, USA USA USA!

As for his blades .... ah now it is a blade ... and other mysterious things!

My my. Oh Raf. Children play that game better. Well all right ... considering .... but back in reality, it's just vague enough to divert attention from that mess, especially as the US media has been harping on consistency, and inconsistency, when it comes to him and other athletes. That is their media plan; show other, better skaters as inconsistent, while they push the Nureyev angle, with his steady performances. Now that he bombed, spectacularly might I add, it's twilight zone of course, but when someone else messes up it's inconsistency!

Basically, Raf and this whole thing is a classic - look, squirrel!

 

[Purv]

It's an absolute joke he got this PCS for that program but hey, USA USA USA!

!

Kolyada got the same , ridicolous points for his splatfest in russia. This is what we call homecooking

 

[rabbit1234]

Competitors with many quads can achieve performance with almost no mistakes if they are 3A, 3T, 3S, etc. layouts.
Many of them are competitors who were at the top in junior in such a layout.
If it is a layout like BV's low competitor, there is a high possibility that performance with almost no mistake will be made.
Conversely, if the competitor with low BV increases the number of quads, it will definitely be a terrible performance.
I think that it is not fair that a low BV competitor can not be punished by PCS.

 

[Li'Kitsu]

Kolyada got the same , ridicolous points for his splatfest in russia. This is what we call homecooking

It's funny how you kind of proved Yatas point there.

Yes, Mikas PCS was way, way, way too high in CoR. People complained about it here accordingly. Now Nathans PCS are way, way, way too high at SA. You barely here anything. That's the point.

 

[evasorange]

Tbh I didn't notice Nathan's pcs at first because I was so stunned that he made so many mistakes,and I was also still shook from seeing two men dislocate their shoulders a mere thirty minutes apart, but now the next morning... yes I don't understand how once the top men seem to hit the top level of pcs the judges keep it stuck there regardless of what happened out on the ice. Yuzu I feel like pcs wasnt too crazy in rostelecom cup( I could be remembering it wrong) but mikhails Pcs was laughably wrong(I love that it gets brough up every time we talk about this), Patrick got 90 pcs for a mistake ridden slow low energy lp in skate Canada, Javi,my fave who I always want to succeed, I can still admit had way to high pcs for his lp last week. Although he did receive lower pcs in China when he made all of those errors. Shoma...I think he gets too high of pcs even when he makes no mistakes. And now Nathan...I just don't understand judging anymore. Not that it's ever been super great or consistent but more then ever it seems like men and ladies are getting score less and less about what they did on the ice in that performance and more About past work and name and country. It's ruining a sport I adore so much

 

[Ender]

I guess we will not see Nathan Chen’s 4Lo ever again this season. At this rate it’s better for him to do two 4Lz and two 4F, along with 4S and 4T. And if his edge jump is too weak he can always ditch the 3A for 3lz or 3F.

 

[Tavi...]

Competitors with many quads can achieve performance with almost no mistakes if they are 3A, 3T, 3S, etc. layouts.
Many of them are competitors who were at the top in junior in such a layout.
If it is a layout like BV's low competitor, there is a high possibility that performance with almost no mistake will be made.
Conversely, if the competitor with low BV increases the number of quads, it will definitely be a terrible performance.
I think that it is not fair that a low BV competitor can not be punished by PCS.

I think you need to read and understand the criteria for PCS, because it’s pretty clear you don’t understand what it measures. Just because a program is clean doesn’t mean it automatically deserves high PCS. Just because someone attempts a high BV program doesn’t mean they have good skating skills or automatically deserve high PCS. And incidentally, not all quadless programs are technically easy.

 

[GGFan]

I don't think the lack of outrage had anything to do with a conspiracy. It probably was due to the circumstances. Those of us who were watching live were 1) exhausted, 2) in shock, 3) worried for the skaters, 4) considering the potential for a splatfest at the Olympics, etc. I'm a Nathan fan and I thought the program was a hot mess yesterday.

He definitely lost focus and let the performance go. I still think it's a great program but there seems to be a content v commitment tradeoff that he's not navigating well at the moment. Lower PCS was completely appropriate. Having said that given today's scoring I have no problem with neither Nathan's high 80s PCS when he skates that program to its potential.

 

[Li'Kitsu]

I don't think the lack of outrage had anything to do with a conspiracy. It probably was due to the circumstances. Those of us who were watching live were 1) exhausted, 2) in shock, 3) worried for the skaters, 4) considering the potential for a splatfest at the Olympics, etc. I'm a Nathan fan and I thought the program was a hot mess yesterday.

Funny how none of that applied to CoC 2014, when Han & Yuzu crashed in the 6 min warm up, possible concussions, blood & all included, and people immediately went after their scores. And especially in Yuzus case, do it to this day.

And no, it has nothing to do with a "conspiracy". It's called bias.

 

[rabbit1234]

I think you need to read and understand the criteria for PCS, because it’s pretty clear you don’t understand what it measures. Just because a program is clean doesn’t mean it automatically deserves high PCS. Just because someone attempts a high BV program doesn’t mean they have good skating skills or automatically deserve high PCS. And incidentally, not all quadless programs are technically easy.

Lower BV means that the program as a whole does not do difficult things. The number of rotations is also small, spin and so on are not complicated.
Junior of layout such as 2A, 2T, 2Lo etc. can not be said that the skating skill is high.
If the skating skill goes up, 3A, 2T, 2Lo etc will be able to do.

BV's low competitor is "edge control and flow over the ice surface demonstrated by a command of the skating vocabulary(edges, steps, turns etc), "
IT can not say that.

 

[GGFan]

Funny how none of that applied to CoC 2014, when Han & Yuzu crashed in the 6 min warm up, possible concussions, blood & all included, and people immediately went after their scores. And especially in Yuzus case, do it to this day.

And no, it has nothing to do with a "conspiracy". It's called bias.

What are folks mad at here: 1) that the scoring system is messed up? 2) that Nathan doesn't get enough hate? or 3) that North Americans are biased?

I think we can agree on (1). (2) makes little sense to me. There are more than enough people on GS who point out Nathan's flaws. And if we were to count his fans they would number much less than Yuzuru's and probably several others. (3) is a truism but so what? Maybe because of timing it just so happened that there weren't enough people watching who were bothered by the PCS enough to mention it. I think that can be explained by the terrible sequence of events but bias is not limited to any part of the world.

 

[da96103]

I guess we will not see Nathan Chen’s 4Lo ever again this season. At this rate it’s better for him to do two 4Lz and two 4F, along with 4S and 4T. And if his edge jump is too weak he can always ditch the 3A for 3lz or 3F.

That's an idea. He can pop any one type of quad without penalty except if the 4T turns to 3T, then 3T at the combo needs to be a 2Lo, but also not pop both 4Lz or both 4F.

4Lz+2T
4Lz
4F+2T+2Lo
4F
4S
4T
3Lz+3T
3F

The first Olympic winning program with no 3A in FS.

 

[Ender]

What are folks mad at here: 1) that the scoring system is messed up? 2) that Nathan doesn't get enough hate? or 3) that North Americans are biased?

I think we can agree on (1). (2) makes little sense to me. There are more than enough people on GS who point out Nathan's flaws. And if we were to count his fans they would number much less than Yuzuru's and probably several others. (3) is a truism but so what? Maybe because of timing it just so happened that there weren't enough people watching who were bothered by the PCS enough to mention it. I think that can be explained by the terrible sequence of events but bias is not limited to any part of the world.

Mostly because they keep making fun Hanyu for his CoC 2014 despite knowing how bad it was for him and Han Yan, how dangerous it was and it might have been a career ending if he were less lucky. And surely the judges at CoC that day were not happy with the results either. But they didn’t get any excuses for the mess that day. All they got was attack for “bad judging”, which is a big question as had these people been there in that same position could they have done better?

But then, on the other hand, people here and especially the media, have come up with every possible excuses for Chen when he has bad skate. People keep saying that he has huge mental strength, it’s just his boots (WC 2017) or it’s just his blades (Skate America). Both times, Nathan Chen landed multi quads during practice, just read Jackie Wong’s reports. It’s not the boots or blades his main issue. But it doesn’t matter, he is young he will cope up with the nerves eventually.

Just saying everyone is the same, the pressure and hyping aren’t always good.

 

[Ender]

That's an idea. He can pop any one type of quad without penalty except if the 4T turns to 3T, then 3T at the combo needs to be a 2Lo, but also not pop both 4Lz or both 4F.

4Lz+2T
4Lz
4F+2T+2Lo
4F
4S
4T
3Lz+3T
3F

The first Olympic winning program with no 3A in FS.

We don’t have any rule that deduct a free skate without Axel right? Then it’s fine. He can eliminate the 3A all together.

 

[rabbit1234]

If the success / failure of jump affects PCS, the difficulty of jump should also affect PCS.

Low BV competitors should not be given high PCS. Because he can not do difficult things. It can not be said that skating skills are high.

 

[GGFan]

Mostly because they keep making fun Hanyu for his CoC 2014 knowing how bad it was for him, how dangerous it was and it might have been a career ending if he were less lucky.

But then they, especially the media, has come up with every possible excuses for Chen when he has bad skate. He has huge mental strength, it’s just his boots (WC 2017) or it’s just his blades (Skate America).

Any one concussion is extremely serious! Even if one gets over it we don't know what the consequences are down the road. Therefore anyone who makes fun of that incident is extremely ignorant at best and lacks compassion at worst. The crazy part of all of this is that while the fans and media create their own universe Yuzuru and Nathan have immense respect for each other. I think there's very valid criticism of the judging system that shouldn't have to extend to a more general criticism of North Americans. Especially given that lots of us love Yuzuru as well.

 

[da96103]

We don’t have any rule that deduct a free skate without Axel right? Then it’s fine. He can eliminate the 3A all together.

Actually early in the season, I thought Nathan and Raf's plan to do the 4Lo is with the intention of eliminating the 3A in FS.

 

[Ender]

Any one concussion is extremely serious! Even if one gets over it we don't know what the consequences are down the road. Therefore anyone who makes fun of that incident is extremely ignorant at best and lacks compassion at worst. The crazy part of all of this is that while the fans and media create their own universe Yuzuru and Nathan have immense respect for each other. I think there's very valid criticism of the judging system that shouldn't have to extend to a more general criticism of North Americans. Especially given that lots of us love Yuzuru as well.

Yeah in the end it doesn’t matter. All skaters are just like us, having a bad day isn’t that rare.
If I had a bad day and still win a competition, it’s not that bad in my opinion. The point is to move forward and be civil. It’s not olympic yet. It’s just a Gp event. It’s a part of the training.

 

[Ender]

Actually early in the season, I thought Nathan and Raf's plan to do the 4Lo is with the intention of eliminating the 3A in FS.

I think it’s a good idea but isn’t the 4lo more dangerous than 3A? I think just casually adding the 3lz or 3F in the end is already ok. Or just do a 2A. I think the BV will still be monstrous with two 4lz and two 4F.

 

[Li'Kitsu]

What are folks mad at here: 1) that the scoring system is messed up? 2) that Nathan doesn't get enough hate? or 3) that North Americans are biased?

I think we can agree on (1). (2) makes little sense to me. There are more than enough people on GS who point out Nathan's flaws. And if we were to count his fans they would number much less than Yuzuru's and probably several others. (3) is a truism but so what? Maybe because of timing it just so happened that there weren't enough people watching who were bothered by the PCS enough to mention it. I think that can be explained by the terrible sequence of events but bias is not limited to any part of the world.

Yeah, "timing". Of course I don't want Nathan to get hate, my problem is with how ready the same people who are perfectly fine with Nathans scores are to 'hate' on others.

And I'm sorry, but lol if you really think bias is the same in every part of the world. No, I don't see the same hyping/dumping on others from every other country, by far not. Thankfully.

(And you know, if we only look at GS, I'd think Nathan has more fans here by now then Yuzu. Thanks to a big part of Yuzu fans not being here anymore... due to, eh, reasons.)