Coaches' Corner

[alexocfp]

Wow, okay. From everything you've said, including the above quote, you are very fixated on your own enjoyments in a cold-blooded way, without any thought or caring for how you get to see what floats your boat. FYI-- the sport does have rules and regulations regardless of whether or not they are adequately arrived at, effectively monitored, or equitably and fairly enforced.

As well, whether you realize it or not, there is a code of ethics involved in coaching. Some things are a matter of human decency. As I said earlier, the best coaches to me, are those who care about their students as people first, and as athletes second.

My enjoyment of figure skating is bound up with getting to know the skaters and going with them vicariously on their journey. Understanding something about an athlete makes it more fulfilling for me when celebrating their victories, and during the process of supporting them through all the ups and downs of their journey.


Watching fave skaters win medals can be sweet and very satisfying. But ultimately, for me, it's about the skaters' journeys in their individual totalities, not about the podium pitstops, or lack thereof, along the way.

You can respect whatever you so desire. You can't dictate to others what they should or shouldn't respect.

I don’t dictate to others what they should respect. But it’s a two way street.

I am not the one calling for schools to be closed because they teach their students in a way I don’t like. I am not the one placing moral judgements on the coaches or skaters I don’t like.

I advocate for everyone to do it their way and then we get together and see who does it better.

It’s still a sport after all, that’s why they keep score. And results matter.

And yes, it may be more cold blooded, but I never cheer for injures or take satisfaction in them.

In fact, I don’t event root for falls. I want my favorites to win while beating their competition at their best.

 

[alexocfp]

I have to get out of this now, otherwise I will be banned soon.

Don’t worry, I have thick skin. I don’t report any posts.

If you have a different opinion, that’s fine. It’s not the end of the world.

Unless you just want to live in a place where only 1 opinion is the norm.

I can easily just avoid the forum and just read Team Eteri’s telegram feed. But I don’t mind alternate viewpoints.

If you think you can better a better parent or guardian to someone you just see competing on TV, fine.

And if some of the people in this sport bother you, or anyone, that much, don’t watch them. Why follow something that doesn’t bring you joy?

There are a a lot of sports I followed before that I don’t watch now because the product they provide isn’t to my liking. So I don’t complain about it publicly, I just ignore it and be done.

And it’s a lot easier now with the split. The skaters from Eteri’s camp aren’t in the international competitions now so they are easy to avoid.

 

[yume]

I have a question. When coaches are against their skater competing, can they block them? Or is it the fed or the parents?

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

Why? You make it sound like for someone who was able to score almost 80 and 150+ during her last season, she would have been totally unable to get into top 10 at US nats. I know Russians are not allowed to struggle like everyone else and that many people prefer to remember her last free skate as the only performance she was capable of, but c'mon.

This is a fanciful hypothetical that was posed by the OP for the purposes of attempting to denigrate and look down on the U.S. women's discipline.

Obviously, it's rather silly to think that Zagitova, after achieving her goals and retiring, would ever come back to represent the U.S. She'd have to desire doing this, which is beyond being extremely doubtful. Then, she'd have to secure a release, and apply to become a U.S. citizen. How old would she be by that point? She surely retired for good reasons in the first place. There's no basis for even thinking this is based in reality. It's a silly hypothetical. That's why my LOL, which I will now double LOLOL!

 

[alexocfp]

This is a fanciful hypothetical that was posed by the OP for the purposes of attempting to denigrate and look down on the U.S. women's discipline.

Obviously, it's rather silly to think that Zagitova, after achieving her goals and retiring, would ever come back to represent the U.S. She'd have to desire doing this, which is beyond being extremely doubtful. Then, she'd have to secure a release, and apply to become a U.S. citizen. How old would she be by that point? She surely retired for good reasons in the first place. There's no basis for even thinking this is based in reality. It's a silly hypothetical. That's why my LOL, which I will now double LOLOL!

Here is the important question: will she have to change her name to Alina Smith?

As an abrupt change of topic, this is why Smith, er I mean Zagitova, got out at exactly the right time. Brand Zagitova remained super strong and because she got out on top, people still remember her as a champion.

Obviously, how she would do in current competition or in the USA team is pure speculation. Hey, but it’s fun to do the what if’s.

 

[alexocfp]

I have a question. When coaches are against their skater competing, can they block them? Or is it the fed or the parents?

Great question. Is there even any protocol for this situation? In team sports, athletes play hurt, and there are disparate opinions between the coaches, players and owners all the time. Some injuries aren’t cut and dry, like a broken bone or torn ligaments where the answer is simple and unanimous.

And I definitely don’t want to be involved in those discussions. Anna wouldn’t be 3 time National Champion if she didn’t overrule everyone.

It’s a hard thing to dissect because you can make the wrong decision but get a good result. And vice versa.

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

The poster was talking about today, not yesterday.
What i see in that part of the post, is that like in any sport and any field, US got its glory era with ladies. Now, they are in a less glorious era. But it's a cycle.
Also, it hurts much less when it's USA which has all those medals.

Anyone with good understanding should be able to follow my post in response to the poster I was replying to. It's another thing entirely if you choose to cherry-pick, selectively take things out-of-context, and purposely misinterpret my comments.

The poster posed a ridiculous hypothetical and then described the U.S. ladies discipline as 'weak.' As I clearly already stated, and as is quite obvious, the U.S. ladies discipline no longer being dominant does not mean it's 'weak.' That's simply not true.

I brought up the medal statistics because it is rather interesting to look at. Not that it's a measure of anything other than judging outcomes, which are always influenced by politics. I clearly prefaced my listing of the results with the politics observation. The fact that the U.S. ladies discipline still holds these medal totals records without reaching the podium at Worlds and Olympics for extended periods in recent years is surely indicative of many things, including the vast accumulation of medals that began in the post WWII years.

The possibility for the extensive medal accrual in the U.S. to happen, was due to drastic cultural changes in Europe, as well as to European coaches migrating to the U.S. to teach talented youngsters in the U.S. who were gifted with brilliant athletic prowess, etc. Also part of this equation of cultural change, is the tragedy of the Sabena airline crash that killed the entire 1961 U.S. team. The reverberating effects of that crash had enormous impacts on figure skating, essentially catapulting the sport into the global era. Combined, of course, with the television age and television contracts, which broadened U.S. influence on the sport.

These are serious topics of conversation though. And since some people in this thread are intent on bulldozing, deflecting, conflating, and purposely misinterpreting reasonable observations, there's no point in wasting my valuable time with such unproductivity.

 

[alexocfp]

Anyone with good understanding should be able to follow my post in response to the poster I was replying to. It's another thing entirely if you choose to cherry-pick, selectively take things out-of-context, and purposely misinterpret my comments.

The poster posed a ridiculous hypothetical and then described the U.S. ladies discipline as 'weak.' As I clearly already stated, and as is quite obvious, the U.S. ladies discipline no longer being dominant does not mean it's 'weak.' That's simply not true.

I brought up the medal statistics because it is rather interesting to look at. Not that it's a measure of anything other than judging outcomes, which are always influenced by politics. I clearly prefaced my listing of the results with the politics observation. The fact that the U.S. ladies discipline still holds these medal totals records without reaching the podium at Worlds and Olympics for extended periods in recent years is surely indicative of many things, including the vast accumulation of medals that began in the post WWII years.

The possibility for the extensive medal accrual in the U.S. to happen, was due to drastic cultural changes in Europe, as well as to European coaches migrating to the U.S. to teach talented youngsters in the U.S. who were gifted with brilliant athletic prowess, etc. Also part of this equation of cultural change, is the tragedy of the Sabena airline crash that killed the entire 1961 U.S. team. The reverberating effects of that crash had enormous impacts on figure skating, essentially catapulting the sport into the global era. Combined, of course, with the television age and television contracts, which broadened U.S. influence on the sport.

These are serious topics of conversation though. And since some people in this thread are intent on bulldozing, deflecting, conflating, and purposely misinterpreting reasonable observations, there's no point in wasting my valuable time with such unproductivity.

For ladies all time, the USA is the best ever in the discipline.

The numbers don’t lie.

But like any dynasty, it wasn’t going to last forever. Just remains to be seen how long the current Russian dynasty will last, because that also won’t last forever.

And if Eteri stops producing winners, the fed will close her down. I know it’s not popular to admit, but Eteri is also under a lot of pressure as a coach.

And the beauty of sports is that it can come from some unexpected places. If you told me 20 years ago that a Serb and a Greek would be in the top 5 in the ATP rankings, I would have laughed for hours. But who’s laughing now?

 

[yume]

This is a fanciful hypothetical that was posed by the OP for the purposes of attempting to denigrate and look down on the U.S. women's discipline.

Obviously, it's rather silly to think that Zagitova, after achieving her goals and retiring, would ever come back to represent the U.S. She'd have to desire doing this, which is beyond being extremely doubtful. Then, she'd have to secure a release, and apply to become a U.S. citizen. How old would she be by that point? She surely retired for good reasons in the first place. There's no basis for even thinking this is based in reality. It's a silly hypothetical. That's why my LOL, which I will now double LOLOL!

She would have been 20. Still young. Knowing the wonders that holding another passport do (see Gubanova), why not?

But then she is currently getting a lot of money by doing shows, commercials, host jobs. Maybe she wouldn't leave that, unless US give her the same opportunities.

 

[alexocfp]

She would have been 20. Still young. Knowing the wonders that holding another passport do (see Gubanova), why not?

But then she is currently getting a lot of money by doing shows, commercials, host jobs. Maybe she wouldn't leave that, unless US give her the same opportunities.

Zagitova is doing just fine. She is rich, and marketable.

Why would she want to return to competition? To take a wage cut? Or to win a competition she already won, while putting her body through the rigors needed to get back at that level? Same as Medvedeva.

Do some magazine covers, do some ice shows, and travel all over the place with your favorite football or hockey team.

We can just watch her compete this weekend in am alleged “friendly” competition.

I say alleged because there are too many egos at that event and they all want to win deep down, no matter what they publicly say. I’m expecting passive aggressiveness. Haha

 

[alexocfp]

She would have been 20. Still young. Knowing the wonders that holding another passport do (see Gubanova), why not?

But then she is currently getting a lot of money by doing shows, commercials, host jobs. Maybe she wouldn't leave that, unless US give her the same opportunities.

If we want to do a hypothetical, then we need to figure out what Zagitova would score if she performed the two programs and what the US ladies have scored this year.

This is definitely an exercise way above my capabilities since it involves going element by element and then figuring out PCS and the like.

Maybe someone can do a computer simulation or something for fun.

 

[yume]

It's getting tense here....
Let's chill a bit by talking about the unknown coaches who should get recognition. I start with the mini football team that coaches Rinka Watanabe and Ami Nakai. They got their skaters to JWC and WC this season. And Ami medaled.
I wonder if they had already gotten the same results or more.

 

[DoubleBass]

She would have been 20. Still young. Knowing the wonders that holding another passport do (see Gubanova), why not?

But then she is currently getting a lot of money by doing shows, commercials, host jobs. Maybe she wouldn't leave that, unless US give her the same opportunities.

Why would she do that though? The US figure skating has no money and doesn't attract much international attention, even Nathan Chen, the US' only big star hasn't attracted much attention, compared to the top Russian ladies. Google trends, YouTube views, social media followers etc, Nathan doesn't even come close, let alone any US lady figure skater.
Alina is much better of enjoying her life, making lots of money by hosting Ice Age, doing magazine covers attending hockey games etc also now with this competition on the 18th Alina's fans are going crazy on telegram, it's almost like a cult and you can see how popular she still is in Russia. Why would she trade all that and go to some foreign country just so she could compete internationally? I really don't get that logic

 

[alexocfp]

Why would she do that though? The US figure skating has no money and doesn't attract much international attention, even Nathan Chen, the US' only big star hasn't attracted much attention, compared to the top Russian ladies. Google trends, YouTube views, social media followers etc, Nathan doesn't even come close, let alone any US lady figure skater.
Alina is much better of enjoying her life, making lots of money by hosting Ice Age, doing magazine covers attending hockey games etc also now with this competition on the 18th Alina's fans are going crazy on telegram, it's almost like a cult and you can see how popular she still is in Russia. Why would she trade all that and go to some foreign country just so she could compete internationally? I really don't get that logic

I got one answer: If she skates for the USA, I can seen her more, possibly live. Haha

But joking aside you are spot on.
She is the prototype, exhibit A, in not only leaving at the peak, but also leaving them wanting more. I have casual figure skating friends that are asking me for the link to Saturday’s event so they can watch her.

And her fans in China or Japan aren’t zero either.

The eye opener for me was at my job. When I asked both the Russian immigrants if they knew any skaters, guess who was the one they mentioned?

 

[yume]

.

Why would she do that though? The US figure skating has no money and doesn't attract much international attention, even Nathan Chen, the US' only big star hasn't attracted much attention, compared to the top Russian ladies. Google trends, YouTube views, social media followers etc, Nathan doesn't even come close, let alone any US lady figure skater.
Alina is much better of enjoying her life, making lots of money by hosting Ice Age, doing magazine covers attending hockey games etc also now with this competition on the 18th Alina's fans are going crazy on telegram, it's almost like a cult and you can see how popular she still is in Russia. Why would she trade all that and go to some foreign country just so she could compete internationally? I really don't get that logic

Ain't that what i said in other words in the second paragraph?

 

[DoubleBass]

To me

I got one answer: If she skates for the USA, I can seen her more, possibly live. Haha

But joking aside you are spot on.
She is the prototype, exhibit A, in not only leaving at the peak, but also leaving them wanting more. I have casual figure skating friends that are asking me for the link to Saturday’s event so they can watch her.

And her fans in China or Japan aren’t zero either.

The eye opener for me was at my job. When I asked both the Russian immigrants if they knew any skaters, guess who was the one they mentioned?

To me the eye opener was that my co worker originally from Algeria, only knew Trusova (and nothing else about figure skating) because of one video (unstoppable ex) that got viral in his home country and his cousin shared it with him a few years ago.
Alina didn't exactly quit on top though, she was beaten by the 3A at GPF 19 fair and square, also I don't think Alina is the most popular now, I think Kamila, Zhenya and Trusova are more popular than her as it stands, but Alina's fans are the craziest by far, she's like a goddess to them.

I think this competition on the 18th will be huge, not only are they resurrecting the Zhenya vs Alina rivalry, but also they are pitching different generations against each other, who would have though we would ever see an Akatieva- Kamila -Anna - Alina - Zhenya - Radionova rivalry on the same ice, in a competition!

 

[alexocfp]

To me

To me the eye opener was that my co worker originally from Algeria, only knew Trusova (and nothing else about figure skating) because of one video (unstoppable ex) that got viral in his home country and his cousin shared it with him a few years ago.
Alina didn't exactly quit on top though, she was beaten by the 3A at GPF 19 fair and square, also I don't think Alina is the most popular now, I think Kamila, Zhenya and Trusova are more popular than her as it stands, but Alina's fans are the craziest by far, she's like a goddess to them.

I think this competition on the 18th will be huge, not only are they resurrecting the Zhenya vs Alina rivalry, but also they are pitching different generations against each other, who would have though we would ever see an Akatieva- Kamila -Anna - Alina - Zhenya - Radionova rivalry on the same ice, in a competition!

Good points.

Trusova is definitely a force fan wise. Those people skipped a competition to go get an autograph during an impromptu meet and greet. I wish I had loyal fans like that. Sending me artwork and and giving me cars and other expensive gifts. Haha

This event will be chaos.
Alina v Medvedeva is always good for a few controversies, and the current crop definitely won’t want to get beaten by the legends.

Add to that the fact that nobody knows what the scoring will look like.

I know it was mentioned in passing during the back and forth, but part of the reason figure skating isn’t more popular in some places is lack of rivalries. Everyone pretends they are friends and are scared to say anything controversial.

Skaters made the most money in America when there was a real deep in the bones rivalry and jealousy. Sure, it was definitely unsavory the way it climaxed, but none of the skaters making bank or the fans were turned away from the sport.

Like Plushenko stirring the pot, even when he says things I don’t agree with.

And Zagitova and Medvedeva is the gold standard nowadays. It’s still money after all these years, especially because they try to say the right things, but end up slipping up sooner or later. Haha

 

[DoubleBass]

Good points.

Trusova is definitely a force fan wise. Those people skipped a competition to go get an autograph during an impromptu meet and greet. I wish I had loyal fans like that. Sending me artwork and and giving me cars and other expensive gifts. Haha

This event will be chaos.
Alina v Medvedeva is always good for a few controversies, and the current crop definitely won’t want to get beaten by the legends.

Add to that the fact that nobody knows what the scoring will look like.

I know it was mentioned in passing during the back and forth, but part of the reason figure skating isn’t more popular in some places is lack of rivalries. Everyone pretends they are friends and are scared to say anything controversial.

Skaters made the most money in America when there was a real deep in the bones rivalry and jealousy. Sure, it was definitely unsavory the way it climaxed, but none of the skaters making bank or the fans were turned away from the sport.

Like Plushenko stirring the pot, even when he says things I don’t agree with.

And Zagitova and Medvedeva is the gold standard nowadays. It’s still money after all these years, especially because they try to say the right things, but end up slipping up sooner or later. Haha

I agree about the importance of a rivalry, I mean human beings had gladiator fights for a reason, and even tiger vs lion fights in ancient Rome which attracted thousands of people. And to this day so many people argue who's stronger tigers or lions.
It's just human nature, I guess lol
But also I'd like to add that rivalries have to be legitimate to be truly engaging, I mean Alina and Zhenya can become best friends for all we know, but their fans will still keep fighting and stirring up drama, I guess because they are just so different, even in their post competitive careers they can't be any more different from each other, Zhenya is very outgoing and well spoken, Alina is sorta shy and has a hard time being articulate and sucks at hosting shows, which invites even more drama and conflict between their fan bases. But they were also different on the ice as well, with both having their unique strengths and weaknesses

 

[yume]

I don't blame Eteri for what happens with other skaters. The sport as a whole has a problem there and Eteri alone vanishing won't solve these problems.

But I do blame her for what happens to her own skaters. Kids are not responsible for these decisions. If I thought they were capable of making such decisions on their own I would advocate for marriage for every age and legal sex with adults for every age as long as it is "consential". Children can be exploited and they might not even realize what happens. Even as adults they might think it was "good for them", like many adults who were beaten as children think that it "didn't do them any harm", when actually research shows it did. They might think it is normal because the adults around them treat it like that. They might be persuaded and educated to always blame themselves. They might think that that is the only way they will get love and attention. That's why there need to be rules and laws in place to protect them. We cannot equal their will with that of grown-ups. The grown ups need to take care of them, and that also sometimes means keeping them from what they want, but especially not forcing or pushing them to do things that are unhealthy for them. Yes, many of those skaters are failed by their parents just as well, by society, by media, by feds. That doesn't mean the coach has no responsibility, on the contrary, the coach has special responsibility to take care that the sport harms body and mind of the underage skater as least as possible.
But of course if you aren't interested in morals and how results are achieved you are indeed free of such thoughts. People not being interested in whether abuse happens doesn't make abuse anything else but abuse though.

If feds, especially Rusfed in this case, weren't that ambitious, coaches like Eteri wouldn't exist. No, they would exist but they wouldn't be allowed to do whatever they want.
Feds know everything, they know what happens and they allow it. Because there will be medals at the end. If feds wanted to protect kids, they would be protected. If Eteri stops giving them consistent or semi-consistent quadteens, they will find another Eteri. Simple.

 

[alexocfp]

I agree about the importance of a rivalry, I mean human beings had gladiator fights for a reason, and even tiger vs lion fights in ancient Rome which attracted thousands of people. And to this day so many people argue who's stronger tigers or lions.
It's just human nature, I guess lol
But also I'd like to add that rivalries have to be legitimate to be truly engaging, I mean Alina and Zhenya can become best friends for all we know, but their fans will still keep fighting and stirring up drama, I guess because they are just so different, even in their post competitive careers they can't be any more different from each other, Zhenya is very outgoing and well spoken, Alina is sorta shy and has a hard time being articulate and sucks at hosting shows, which invites even more drama and conflict between their fan bases. But they were also different on the ice as well, with both having their unique strengths and weaknesses

Sure they can be friends but that ruins the storyline. Haha

Look, I don’t mind offering up an unpopular or even crazy opinion, and I take on all comers, but even I avoid taking sides in the Zagitova-Medvedeva divide. Even I know not to take those 2 fan bases on. They are rabid. Haha