COI Ice Review / Rant / Slanted Opinion

[MFarone]

COI - MK participation

I completely agree with Mathman on Michelle . I would love to see her one more time at Nationals so I could go and watch all of her practices and then compete one more time and go out on her own terms. If that becomes impossible, then I'll be at COI until she retires. I prefer competition, but have always loved Michelle's exhibitions too.

Maureen

 

[MKFSfan]

I went to Long Island yesterday. It wasn't as good as I expected-I thought there would be more skaters and it seemed pretty rushed to me. I didn't like the opening number, very all over the place, but the closing number was much better! The crowd was pretty warm and appreciative to all the skaters, but not really as enthusiastic as it has been in the past.

Some random observations and thoughts-

~Normally I'm tired of all the gimmicky, comedy routine the guys do, but I enjoyed seeing Evan's program with some personality coming through! He is enjoyable and he definatelt plays to the crowd.

~I could do without Irina Hula Hoop Girl. I was disappointed with Vlad and Oleksiy's routine. It was the one with the slow and boring moves and then the boxes. Their part in the closing was so much better!

~Kimmie got a loud reaction from the crowd when she was announced and after her solo, probably the 3rd loudest behind Michelle and Plushy. Remember how she was quoted as saying she wants to make her elements "bigger" to reach the people in the rafters? Well, I was way up high and she reached me allright! She had a fall in the opening number and in her solo, but I really love the song, her dress and her skating. She really impresses me live, as opposed to on TV-I thought that last year, too!

~On the other hand, Sasha's skating seems "bigger" on TV. Not that she isn't very beautiful to watch and captivating live, but I just find her moves bigger and her skating overall more appealing on TV. She has this "snow globe" feeling to me (as does Johnny, TT/MM and G/M), like they are putting on their own show and I'm just watching on the outside, I don't think they are "cold", but I don't feel the same connection that the rest of the cast gives off. Regardless, red is a great color on her and the white closing dress was very pretty. She had a couple of stumbles. I loved her scratch spin in her solo and she landed a very nice salchow. The audience reacted to her spins and jumps in the solo, and her number was well-received.

~Plushy sure knows how to play up the crowd! He was pretty entertaining and dramatic.

~For all the beillmann complaints, it seemed like everyone who had a camera was taking pictures of Irina's beillmann. Irina always looks like she's having a great time, flirts and interacts with the audience very well, looked right at home!

~Michelle got the loudest reception all in all. Noone got standing ovations, Michelle got a small partial ovations. The audience was SO quiet through her performance-my mom said it was like everyone was in tears, not just me! I didn't think Michelle looked uncomfortable or tentative. Even without the jumps and a lot of spins, she was still beautiful to watch. Her spirals and MITF were stretched out and held long enough to really enjoy them. Compared to the rest, she was not slow and had her usual good ice coverage and amazing connection to the audience!

I was kinda disappointed that I liked the SOI show better this year. Normally, for me, COI tops it, but I don't know...somethings seemed off to me. But I'm glad I went! I'd go all the way to LI in total miserable weather just to see Michelle anytime!

 

[R.D.]

I went to Long Island yesterday. It wasn't as good as I expected-I thought there would be more skaters and it seemed pretty rushed to me. I didn't like the opening number, very all over the place, but the closing number was much better! The crowd was pretty warm and appreciative to all the skaters, but not really as enthusiastic as it has been in the past.

Some random observations and thoughts-

~Normally I'm tired of all the gimmicky, comedy routine the guys do, but I enjoyed seeing Evan's program with some personality coming through! He is enjoyable and he definatelt plays to the crowd.

~I could do without Irina Hula Hoop Girl. I was disappointed with Vlad and Oleksiy's routine. It was the one with the slow and boring moves and then the boxes. Their part in the closing was so much better!

~Kimmie got a loud reaction from the crowd when she was announced and after her solo, probably the 3rd loudest behind Michelle and Plushy. Remember how she was quoted as saying she wants to make her elements "bigger" to reach the people in the rafters? Well, I was way up high and she reached me allright! She had a fall in the opening number and in her solo, but I really love the song, her dress and her skating. She really impresses me live, as opposed to on TV-I thought that last year, too!

~On the other hand, Sasha's skating seems "bigger" on TV. Not that she isn't very beautiful to watch and captivating live, but I just find her moves bigger and her skating overall more appealing on TV. She has this "snow globe" feeling to me (as does Johnny, TT/MM and G/M), like they are putting on their own show and I'm just watching on the outside, I don't think they are "cold", but I don't feel the same connection that the rest of the cast gives off. Regardless, red is a great color on her and the white closing dress was very pretty. She had a couple of stumbles. I loved her scratch spin in her solo and she landed a very nice salchow. The audience reacted to her spins and jumps in the solo, and her number was well-received.

~Plushy sure knows how to play up the crowd! He was pretty entertaining and dramatic.

~For all the beillmann complaints, it seemed like everyone who had a camera was taking pictures of Irina's beillmann. Irina always looks like she's having a great time, flirts and interacts with the audience very well, looked right at home!

~Michelle got the loudest reception all in all. Noone got standing ovations, Michelle got a small partial ovations. The audience was SO quiet through her performance-my mom said it was like everyone was in tears, not just me! I didn't think Michelle looked uncomfortable or tentative. Even without the jumps and a lot of spins, she was still beautiful to watch. Her spirals and MITF were stretched out and held long enough to really enjoy them. Compared to the rest, she was not slow and had her usual good ice coverage and amazing connection to the audience!

I was kinda disappointed that I liked the SOI show better this year. Normally, for me, COI tops it, but I don't know...somethings seemed off to me. But I'm glad I went! I'd go all the way to LI in total miserable weather just to see Michelle anytime!

Thanks for the report. Sounds like Kimmie's being recognized as the WC now and is getting the response for it. I take it that the audience is quiet during MK's performance because they're all taking it in. Maybe even a few uberfans in tears. And I get the impression that SC is "putting on her own show" even through the TV. JMO, though- without even having been to a skating show before.

 

[antmanb]

nymkfan51 - Like so many mk fans (I am one) I love to see her skate in exhibition as well as competition - but competition is the most important to me.
I still believe she is hurting and has been for some time. That is a sad state of affairs but apparently that is keeping her from competitive pursuits. Yet it does not prevent her from continuing her skating contractual obligations without any worry toward how bad they may affect her body. I can't believe that "they" as you called them put restrictions on what she can and can not do. How do 'they' know about skating twists and turns on the ice as well as in the air?

I never heard of skaters with injuries doing partial skating. Skaters as far as I know stop skating till the injury is healed and then do some careful partial skating to get back into shape. It's not easy and if Michelle was waiting off the ice to be healed I could understand this better. But she continues to skate with little trouble without jumps, and only without jumps. Fine is she getting better? Would it be faster if she stopped skating all together for a year? None of us know the answers. They are not discussed openly. The rumor has it that she signed for another 4 years with COI. How bad can she be hurting?

Yes, I am the skeptic. I know some fans are all for her skating the Olys in 2010 but to me that is more like wanting to see her skate more than it is to see her compete. I will continue to think of Kwan's competitive days with a raised eyebrow and have no objection to some of her fans holding on to the hope that she will be back in shape eventually. I'd like that too, but..............

Joe

I have had several injuries which have made me unable to jump on the ice but still pefectly able to do everything else on the ice. Notably its back injuries i get that stop me from jumping. Also there are many many skaters out there who start out in singles, get a jump ending injury and then switch to dance. One that i know of in the UK is Mark Hanretty who suffered an injury that made it very dangerous for him to continue jumping and he now does ice dance, also Tristan Cousins (newphew of Robin) seems to have a notoriously bad problems with his knees as Robin did. He sat out the last season after knee surgery and is now turning his attention to ice dance.

Skaters can get injuries that end their jumping careers and nothing else and can go on to be great ice dancers, with no noticable limitations to the turns, edge work, spins and lifts required in dance.

Personally i don't think there's a hope in hell that Kwan will be competing in the 2010 Olympics - i don't think her body will hold out, and even if it does, unless the CoP is drastically changed i don't think she'll have the jumping arsenal she requires to get anywhere near the podium, or whether she could even get on the team to go.

I don't think there is anything weird or inconsistent about what she has said to the public about loving to compete, and taking each day at a time.

The other thing to consider is if she is contractually obliged to do certain things then she will likely pull the stops out to do them on the basis that i would be willing to bet a huge sum of money that her contracts probably have clauses in allowing for injury etc but that if the injury prevents her from performing for more than X months then the contract can be terminated with little or no compensation. If she can avoid that clause kicking in by skating jump free programs (and still bringing the house down) i would expect her to do it.

Ant

 

[Dee4707]

She has this "snow globe" feeling to me (as does Johnny, TT/MM and G/M), like they are putting on their own show and I'm just watching on the outside, I don't think they are "cold", but I don't feel the same connection that the rest of the cast gives off.

What exactly does this mean??? I have such a hard time understanding this. What does a skater who makes a connection do that is different? I really don't see a difference and wondered this for quite a while.

I don't know if I want to see the show -- I guess I don't want to pay as much for the tickets and not see any connections or jumps in a show. I'm paying to see jumps, high and triples!!

Dee

 

[Tinika]

What exactly does this mean??? I have such a hard time understanding this. What does a skater who makes a connection do that is different? I really don't see a difference and wondered this for quite a while.

I don't know if I want to see the show -- I guess I don't want to pay as much for the tickets and not see any connections or jumps in a show. I'm paying to see jumps, high and triples!!

Dee

I don't know if you can define what gives a skater the ability to 'connect'. It's an intangible thing. An emotion, a genuine quality, a communication of the skater's love for skating to the audience. For me, MK is the ultimate ladies' example of this, Gordeeva and Grinkov for pairs, and Torvill and Dean for dance. Maybe Paul Wylie for men? Need to think about that one.

 

[Mathman]

Dee, to me a good example of this "connecting" is to compare Alexei Yagudin to Johnny Weir. I know these are two of your favorite skaters, so I don't mean to say that one style is better than the other, just that they are different.

When Alexei skates he reaches out to the audience and, for a few minutes, you feel like he is your personal friend, skating just for you. He becomes a person in your world.

With Johnny it's more like, Johnny is allowing you to come into his own private world and share his internal vision and emotions.

MM

 

[MKFSfan]

Tinika and Mathman explained it very well!

I just think of how I personally feel while watching performances. It can be a competitive program or an exhibition.Dick Button said it well,"She (MK) makes you love her, makes you feel she loves you. That's a great quality to have." (paraphrase) Michelle is one skater that constantly moves me, sometimes to tears, which is why, in part, I am a Michelle fan. I feel like I am sitting on the ice and she's performing FOR me. I'm not a Rudy fan, as far as COI skating goes, and he really knows how to get the audience going. He's fun and gets the audience clapping along and just involved. It's a great way to begin the show, IMO.

When you go to SOI, those skaters REALLY know how to work an audience. Alexie is great, I love him! To me, that's what makes them professional performers-their job is to perform for an audience and get them to come back for another show. If you leave your audience cold, or leave them feeling they may as well stay home and watch TV, they failed their job! There is a lot of audience interaction there, not neccessarily physical, but there is a connection (kinda like when you go to a pop concert as opposed to a symphony, if that makes sense!)

So, "snow globe" is the exact opposite. I do enjoy Johnny, Sasha and TT/MM. I find them to be beautiful, somewhat private skaters. In a way, I'd put Fumie's competitive programs in here (I've never seen an exhibition live, so I can't comment). There's something reserved about them, I almost feel I'm spying on them, not quite invited in to the performance.

For me, I feel Sasha can be detached. A lot of her elements are "look at me!" show-off moves, but not a connection. She doesn't draw me in like Fumie or Johnny can, but while I do get captivated by her skating, it's not "personal".

JMHO!!!

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Sasha, for me, is not detached. She is a bravura skater and reaches out to show the audience her virtuosity. Her flexibility in spirals and spins are wow moves to the audience. Sasha knows this and she reaches out to a large fan following to please them.

Michelle, for me, is a lyric skater and it is the audience who tend to move toward her fluid understated moves.

Both master styles are valid. One can enjoy one or the other or in my case both.

The above, of course, is JMO.

Joe

 

[R.D.]

It's a matter of taste...I think there's a formal definition for what "detached" from the audience means but it's so subjective. What's true for one isn't for the other.

 

[Mathman]

So, "snow globe" is the exact opposite. I do enjoy Johnny, Sasha and TT/MM. I find them to be beautiful, somewhat private skaters. In a way, I'd put Fumie's competitive programs in here (I've never seen an exhibition live, so I can't comment). There's something reserved about them, I almost feel I'm spying on them, not quite invited in to the performance.

Did you see Fumie's Olympic and Worlds exhibition? I think it was the same one that she performed of COI last year, where she used a ball as a prop.

To me, that was a "candle in a snow globe" program. Private, introspective, yes, but with that "home-hearth" glow. Like she was inviting you to step into the globe and join her, but then just as you are reaching out for her, she dissolves into moonlight and slips away.

She even used the ball in this way, seeming to offer it to the audience, then drawing back at the last moment.

MM

 

[Tinika]

To me, that was a "candle in a snow globe" program. Private, introspective, yes, but with that "home-hearth" glow. Like she was inviting you to step into the globe and join her, but then just as you are reaching out for her, she dissolves into moonlight and slips away.


MM

Beautifully put!

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

It's a matter of taste...I think there's a formal definition for what "detached" from the audience means but it's so subjective. What's true for one isn't for the other.

Haven't a clue what your home spun philosophy is all about.

 

[MKFSfan]

Did you see Fumie's Olympic and Worlds exhibition? I think it was the same one that she performed of COI last year, where she used a ball as a prop.

To me, that was a "candle in a snow globe" program. Private, introspective, yes, but with that "home-hearth" glow. Like she was inviting you to step into the globe and join her, but then just as you are reaching out for her, she dissolves into moonlight and slips away.

She even used the ball in this way, seeming to offer it to the audience, then drawing back at the last moment.

MM

No, I didn't see it! I gotta find it to download. I agree with what you wrote-I adore Fumie! And I love your "candle in a snow globe" descriptoin!


Sasha definitely knows what her strengths are and what is going to get the audience's attention-her spirals, MITF and spins are all highlighted in her exhibitions. I feel Michelle highlights her emotions and a different artistic quality, she uses her strong basic skating skills, with fabulous edging and pretty movements with her whole body to reach the crowd, combined, and of course, with her trademark COE spiral, which is why her fans always say she "moves them to tears". Other skaters, like Irina, are so flirty and fun, that they get the audience engaged in the personailty they display. So, while Sasha gets the audience going with gorgeous lines, extensions and pretty spins, I don't feel an emotional connection to the audience, or in my case, from the audience. It's more a show, like a display of brilliant talent. JMO!!!

 

[Dee4707]

Dee, to me a good example of this "connecting" is to compare Alexei Yagudin to Johnny Weir. I know these are two of your favorite skaters, so I don't mean to say that one style is better than the other, just that they are different.

When Alexei skates he reaches out to the audience and, for a few minutes, you feel like he is your personal friend, skating just for you. He becomes a person in your world.

With Johnny it's more like, Johnny is allowing you to come into his own private world and share his internal vision and emotions.

MM

I guess when I asked the question what does a skater who makes a connection do that is different? I really don't see a difference and wondered this for quite a while. I think with all your comments, there is no difference, it's what you as a person wants to feel or see.

So, while Sasha gets the audience going with gorgeous lines, extensions and pretty spins, I don't feel an emotional connection to the audience, or in my case, from the audience. It's more a show, like a display of brilliant talent. JMO!!!

Now that's what moves me. When Alexei skated Man in the Iron Mask, it was his beautiful perfomance that made it subjective for me as well with Johnny's Otonal program. I guess I don't have a need to feel a connection with any skater except through their performance. Again, it;s just my opinion that it;s what an individual wants to feel from that skater.

Dee

 

[MKFSfan]

I agree with what you said about Alexei, and to me that is "it". He's always been able to reach his audience and connect even before he started with the whole kissing someone and ripping off his shirt (thanks to SOI!). It's like he's an "outward" personality. Plushy has that going for him. So does Michelle, Evan, etc.

I think it really is all a matter of personal preference. Just like any painting or music, etc. different skaters will reach different audiences.

I can't explain it, but I get a very different vibe watching Sasha versus watching Kurt, for example (trying to get away from a Michelle comparision since it makes me sound like a Sasha hater, propping up Michelle). I find Kurt to be a very good performer. He creates programs that get the crowd into it. It doesn't matter if he's serious or silly, he connects with the crowd, makes it "personal". I don't think Sasha has done this.

Now, I do like Sasha, and loved her "R&J", "Hernado's Hideaway" and "Don't Rain on My Parade" exhibitions because I felt they highlighted her strengths and showed a bit of her personality (more so the later 2). The whole point of the "snow globe" is because I don't think she makes that same connection as others do. She makes me watch her because she's beautiful on the ice, kinda like listening to a symphony. I bet if she were to join SOI and be a highliner, she may come up with programs that allow her to be her supposedly spunky, fiesty self and then that connection may come out. I guess part of the thing is I find she's all about her elements, not selling her program as an extension of who she is...if that makes any sense!

Commentators have brought this up before. I think Dick said something about the "snow globe" reference I brought up. And he's talked about her being reserved, while saying Michelle "wears her heart on her sleeve" and mentions her "connection to the audience". Nothing wrong with either! Just two different approaches to performing, or to artistry. JMHO!

 

[R.D.]

I don't think it's so much what the fan WANTS to feel from the skater. It's just something that happens. If I got it right, it should be something you can't help. For example, when a MK fan watches MK's skating, she can't help but be moved, even if she tried not to be.

I agree that it's just like art, beauty, music, movies, whatever. Different strokes for different folks. Some people will be trapped in a particular skater's performance, others might think it's great but feel no connection, and still for others it may be their "bathroom break" so to speak. It's extremely subjective and there's no one right answer. There might be a majority opinion (i.e. MK "wears her heart on her sleeve") but that doesn't necessarily mean everyone sees it that way.

I agree with the posters that think Cohen (and many others) gives off the "snow globe" effect. But someone else might be totally into her. Neither of us can help the feeling we have. I couldn't get into it even if I tried, and likely that other person can't help liking her.

JMO

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

However, on the negative side there are things that detract from a skater

 

[Mathman]

I have to say that I do not fully subscribe to the view that art appreciation is entirely on the side of the viewer. There is, for instance, a reason why people have a different reaction to Beethoven's violin concerto than to Mendelssohn's.

I think this can be understood, analyzed and even quantified from the score itself, without mentioning the ideosyncrasies of the listener.

That doesn't mean that one work is "better" than the other, just that it is possible to come to objective conclusions about their differences.

IMHO performing artists are the same. I think there are objective qualities to their performances that affect the reaction of the audience. Otherwise, how could there be art at all? ("I'll just go out there and do any old thing -- some people will like me, some won't.")

JMO

Mathman

 

[MKFSfan]

However, on the negative side there are things that detract from a skater

So true!! But it's more fun to discuss the snow globe vs audience connection effect!