Comments on ESPN coverage

[Joesitz (RIP)]

We must be pure in mind and thought. We must ask what is this dating all about? What is the significance of the people involved? What will it lead to? Is it happening already. What is the difference between friends and lovers? Will any of this lead us down the path of rightousness? or to the depths of transgression? Then again, if we spend too much time thinking and not doing we'll be on the street of regrets. N'est pas?

Joe

 

[Tonichelle]

What possible evidence do you bring to support this bash against Michael Weiss? What has he ever said or done to make anyone think he has a homophobic bone in his body?

I always feel the same way... he roomed with Rudy Galindo several times on tour! I hardly think he has a 'phobia'

 

[Piel]

Why wouldn't they show the SO of a gay person? They do it all of the time at the award shows. I went back and watched my tape of the men's free skate and I did not hear one word that sounded like bashing. If someone could give me an actual quote I would appreciate it......maybe I missed something. My tape stops at the end of Johnny's FS due to bball. Was it after that? TIA

 

[Tonichelle]

Piel - I don't remember anything that was offensive... the commentators were sympathetic... and during the K&C they showed a very relaxed Evan.

There was a grimmace from Evan that people are either saying it was nothing or that it was a huge display of unsportsmanlike conduct (I would say that Ryan Bradley doing the backflip after his scores was more unsportsmanlike, and I'm a fan of his) some are saying it was a smile... I thought he was uncomfy with the situation of Johnny being shown sobbing on the moniter

there's a big thing right now about something Kurt said (again I don't see how he's homophobic considering he not only idolizes Brian Orser, but is a good friend) but I don't have a direct quote, and I don't remember being offended or surprised by anything he said.

 

[JACJR]

there's a big thing right now about something Kurt said (again I don't see how he's homophobic considering he not only idolizes Brian Orser, but is a good friend) but I don't have a direct quote, and I don't remember being offended or surprised by anything he said.

If you have not found anything offensive or surprising about Kurt's comments regarding Johnny Weir, your filter is thicker than most. I do not have a copy of the senior mens commentary, but I do remember (and it has be noted here) Kurts commentary on Johnny Weirs modeling career complete with a description of the high heels Johnny wore. Followed by his unsolicited opinion.

His comments had nothing to do with the competition and I do question his motive. I believe it is becasue Johnny does not conform to homophobic rules as to how male skaters are to behave. Its don't ask don't tell.

 

[Piel]

OK I just replayed my tape (again) and wrote down word for word exactly what was said.

TG: Johnny Weir has demonstrated power, passion, and the desire to win over the last three years. If he discovers that again tonight he will capture another national title. Evan Lycochek has never beaten Weir at these championships. If he relies on his distinctive finishes the title could be his. Both are equal part artist and athlete. each driven to self expression and to victory.

TG: Johnny Weir a three time champion. Evan Lycochek who has great succes internationally and has been better than Weir at those events, has not been able to win this one yet. Weir back stage loosening up has the headphones on ipod in. He has been very focused and he says for the last month he has trained harder than ever. Evan Lycochek says he is in the best shape of his life. Two very distinct personalities and they are quick to tell you that. They have been all season long and especially this week here in Spokane. So guys let’s break this down. And first Evan Lycochek. Dick he was first in the short program.

DB: Well you know I have got to tell you something. I have great admiration for him. He had an enormous meltdown last year in the short program at the Olympic games. It destroyed his chances. But he has addressed that problem. He has apparently so far at least in the short program here learned how to deal with that and has skated a first rate performance. The end result is what he will do in the long program. But I have got to take my hat off to him for an intelligent and very hungry approach to this whole thing.

TG: Now Weir is just a little bit behind him. Virtually tied but he is in second. Does that make a difference?

KB: I talked to Priscilla Hill his coach and she said it’s good. You know with Johnny you just never really know what’s going to happen. You gotta stick around and wait and see. His press conferences have been as much about his fashion sense, decisions questionable, about his modeling career. I mean he looks good on the ice. Great short program. There is a beautiful, huge triple axle. And he looks to be in good shape. But like I said so many distractions. Like high heels and fur come on it’s kind of what’s going on?

TG: Will you be wearing any of the fashion he has been modeling lately?

KB: ugh (puts fingers to lip as in shhhh)

TG: That’s the question.

DB: You would look wonderful in it.

KB: Absolutely not. I couldn’t pull it off. I don’t have the hair.

IMO anyone who wears high heels and doesn't absolutley have to is just crazy................whatever their gender or sexual orientation. The mental picture I got here was of the guy in drag in "Some Like it Hot" and that was hilarious.

 

[BridgetJ]

(snip)
One of the "huh?" things for me about the Evan / Tanith / Dating thing was this. Do you know who lots of other skaters in the competition are dating? Who is Ben dating (or not)? Who are all the others dating (or not)? Personally, I don't WANT ESPN/ABC/USFSA wasting valuable TV coverage time telling me who ANY of these people are dating. Why do they think it's so important that we know who EVAN is dating, but not very many others????

ABC did indeed tell us who Ben is dating a few years ago in a fluff piece. They showed Tanith & Fedor and Ben & Mary walking around outside with their dogs. They said that Mary was a pairs skater.

C'mon, they showed Tanith because it's exciting when one skater is dating another! You have to be looking pretty hard for homophobia, imo, to think it was to show that Evan is not gay. She is TANITH who became *extremely* popular in America afer becoming the first icedancer to win an Oly. medal in how many years? So the fact that she is dating the man who was going for a Nats title and had a very good chance at winning it, made perfect sense to me.

So, what are we to make of how CBS showed Yuka in the stands rooting on Jason at the '98 Olympics? Was it some conspiracy to prove that Jason was not gay, unlike his rival, Todd Sand? No, wait, Todd's married to his partner... See, it's just fun to tell us when one skater is dating/engaged/married to another skater. It's not only news, but fun for the audience. I personally was thrilled that they showed Tanith because I think they are a really cute couple. I also loved how much they showed the family members all throughout the broadcast; it was so sweet! They usually show a few family members, but never this many. I really enjoyed that they interviewed Taylor Firth's parents, too. They are in need of ratings and this was a cute thing, imo.

I just don't see the anti-gay stuff that a lot of others are. I also don't see any proof of the conspiracy that the USFSA has been out to dethrone Johnny either, and I usually love a good conspiracy theory! But as someone earlier said, if the media does talk about stuff, Johnny seems to put it out there first. Case in point, the only reason that Button said that his programs were "more masculine" was because Johnny said so himself first at Skate America. And as someone else again said earlier, it shouldn't be a surprise that they mentioned Weir's modeling, they did that about Nicole Bobek, too. And then to top it off, he was wearing heels which is pretty "out there" to most Americans.

 

[JACJR]

OK IMO anyone who wears high heels and doesn't absolutley have to is just crazy................whatever their gender or sexual orientation. The mental picture I got here was of the guy in drag in "Some Like it Hot" and that was hilarious.

Forty five years ago maybe. Your idea of hilarious explains alot. The point is, what does a discussion of an ad (its a series of ads, in which Johnny Weir apears in one photo in the series) have to do with an athletic event.

And since we delve into personal matters, we need to know that Evan is dating a GIRL. Suprised Kurt wasn't asked if he dated Tanith during lively banter passing as commentary.

 

[enlight78]

I don't think their are trying to put Johnny down. I believe it's more of raising Evan up to become an household name than hectero vs homo. They try to get people to care about Evan by showing his determination and his romantic life.
They also try to emphasize Evan is the guy nest door by comparing Evans down to earth style to Johnny's "unusual activities." Evan is already doing the best internationally. They're are just putting all their eggs in one basket.

Here is a conspiracy theory. They are trying to attack and put johnny down to point that he will retaliate by giving better peformances at international events. Johnny has all ready reported he work his hardest the last month. It seems to be working already.

 

[Piel]

Forty five years ago maybe. Your idea of hilarious explains alot. The point is, what does a discussion of an ad (its a series of ads, in which Johnny Weir apears in one photo in the series) have to do with an athletic event.

And since we delve into personal matters, we need to know that Evan is dating a GIRL. Suprised Kurt wasn't asked if he dated Tanith during lively banter passing as commentary.

Johnny's ad relates to the skating event because according to what KB said THAT is what Johnny was talking about in his press conference. It wan't said as a bash. It was said in the context of..................we really don't know that much about Johnny's training because instead of telling us in his press conference he CHOSE to discuss modeling in heels and fur. Now Johnny put this out there to begin with. It is an interesting thing about him. If he didn't want it discussed than maybe HE should not have mentioned it in his press conference.

And WHY should the fact that Evan is dating another gold medal winner from the competition NOT be shown? It was a nice little sidebar to the event and totally appropriate to be shown and or discussed just as Johhny's modeling career is. Some of us like to know about what the skater's do in their off ice time. It makes them seem more human. There is nothing negative about either of these things IMO. I believe that if Evan were dating Ben they would have shown Ben's reaction while watching his partner skate. It wasn't to show that Evan was dating a girl but another gold medal winner from the same event. Now if you think Johnny's modeling and Evan's dating are shameful things that need to be kept secret than maybe YOU have a problem.

And yes a good drag show is extremely entertaining.

The commentators did not report this about Johnny as a negative thing......just an activity that Johnny CHOSE to do and to discuss. Those of you that are upset about it are drawing the conclusion that it is a negative thing. If you do then your complaint should be at Johnny not Kurt. Whenever a skater fails to perform at their previous level or has any kind of change in their performance it is discussed whatever the reason. Irina's was sick, Kwan was coachless, Sarah went to Harvard, Sasha baked cookies, Tanith and Ben toured too much, Angela's coach died, these issues are always brought up in the attempt to find out what changed that caused the drop in performance level. It was not mentioned in a homophobic way but in a why would you be doing this when you should be training way.

Yes sadly homophobia exists and it is an evil thing. But it is not the case here. I think these announcers like Johnny and want to see him and all skaters do well.

 

[Mathman]

I agree with Piel. Especially the part about everybody likes a good drag show. Role reversal is a staple of comedy. The reason children like clowns is because of child/adult role reversal -- the child becomes the sensible mature one and the adult clown is the silly one. Milton Berle wearing a dress was funny.

"Nobody's perfect" -- but that's the all-time perfect movie line.

When a person in the public eye takes the outre route, of course people will think he is "out there."

Do you think figure skating is homophobic? What do you think would happen if Payton Manning (quarterback for Indianapolis Colts football team) posed for a photospread wearing women's clothes, high heels and make-up? I have a feeling that the Superbowl commentators would have more to say about it than just to show Rex Grossman's girl friend in the audience.

Anyway, go Johnny! Skate your skate, live your life, and whoever doesn't like it can kiss the hem of your CCCP jacket.

 

[R.D.]

Johnny's ad relates to the skating event because according to what KB said THAT is what Johnny was talking about in his press conference. It wan't said as a bash. It was said in the context of..................we really don't know that much about Johnny's training because instead of telling us in his press conference he CHOSE to discuss modeling in heels and fur. Now Johnny put this out there to begin with. It is an interesting thing about him. If he didn't want it discussed than maybe HE should not have mentioned it in his press conference.

And WHY should the fact that Evan is dating another gold medal winner from the competition NOT be shown? It was a nice little sidebar to the event and totally appropriate to be shown and or discussed just as Johhny's modeling career is. Some of us like to know about what the skater's do in their off ice time. It makes them seem more human. There is nothing negative about either of these things IMO. I believe that if Evan were dating Ben they would have shown Ben's reaction while watching his partner skate. It wasn't to show that Evan was dating a girl but another gold medal winner from the same event. Now if you think Johnny's modeling and Evan's dating are shameful things that need to be kept secret than maybe YOU have a problem.

And yes a good drag show is extremely entertaining.

The commentators did not report this about Johnny as a negative thing......just an activity that Johnny CHOSE to do and to discuss. Those of you that are upset about it are drawing the conclusion that it is a negative thing. If you do then your complaint should be at Johnny not Kurt. Whenever a skater fails to perform at their previous level or has any kind of change in their performance it is discussed whatever the reason. Irina's was sick, Kwan was coachless, Sarah went to Harvard, Sasha baked cookies, Tanith and Ben toured too much, Angela's coach died, these issues are always brought up in the attempt to find out what changed that caused the drop in performance level. It was not mentioned in a homophobic way but in a why would you be doing this when you should be training way.

Yes sadly homophobia exists and it is an evil thing. But it is not the case here. I think these announcers like Johnny and want to see him and all skaters do well.

Good post. Now, after reading the transcript I absolutely see nothing offensive. I mean, come on, high heels? That's over the top IMO. Especially if it was Johnny himself that brought it up. That's what he likes to do, and there will be folks who will use that as fuel against him (or armor to defend him, or whatever).

It's not what might have been said that convinces me that something is wrong...it's reading all the comments here. I mean good god. Some people will always find a way to make a statement offensive.

 

[SeaniBu]

Why wouldn't they show the SO of a gay person?

:agree: If Johnny said he had a boyfriend, and he was in the crowd I think the camera crew would hunt them down and show them. :agree: Right on Piel for showing some optimism! It is like a breath of fresh air sometimes around here.

 

[gkelly]

It was said in the context of..................we really don't know that much about Johnny's training because instead of telling us in his press conference he CHOSE to discuss modeling in heels and fur.

Since I wasn't at the press conferences, I still have the question whether Johnny's modeling dominated the discussion because Johnny continually brought it up at the expense of discussing his training, or the reporters continually asked him about it instead of about his training. Kurt's comments don't enlighten me on that either way.

 

[Tonichelle]

Johnny could always decline comment and bring it back to the focus of skating.

 

[Alsace]

Since I wasn't at the press conferences, I still have the question whether Johnny's modeling dominated the discussion because Johnny continually brought it up at the expense of discussing his training, or the reporters continually asked him about it instead of about his training. Kurt's comments don't enlighten me on that either way.

Actually, the press asked and asked about his activities in the fashion world. The complete press conference is available on the icenetwork.com in the free section of behind the scenes nationals coverage. It occurred on Wednesday as a nationals preview. He handled himself and the press very well.

 

[JOHIO2]

I agree with Piel. Especially the part about everybody likes a good drag show. Role reversal is a staple of comedy. The reason children like clowns is because of child/adult role reversal -- the child becomes the sensible mature one and the adult clown is the silly one. Milton Berle wearing a dress was funny.

"Nobody's perfect" -- but that's the all-time perfect movie line.

When a person in the public eye takes the outre route, of course people will think he is "out there."

Do you think figure skating is homophobic? What do you think would happen if Payton Manning (quarterback for Indianapolis Colts football team) posed for a photospread wearing women's clothes, high heels and make-up? I have a feeling that the Superbowl commentators would have more to say about it than just to show Rex Grossman's girl friend in the audience.

Anyway, go Johnny! Skate your skate, live your life, and whoever doesn't like it can kiss the hem of your CCCP jacket.

Most of you are probably too young to remember when "Boadway Joe" Namath did a commercial shoot wearing panyhose. Payton would probably get the same kind of ribbing. As Johnny already has.

And I'll bet that Rosie Grier still gets ribbed because he does needlepoint.

 

[SeaniBu]

Johnny could always decline comment and bring it back to the focus of skating.

:agree: Thank you

You know I should just never say anything, because someone will come along and say it perfectly anyway! - I think it took me 12 posts and got some attacks trying to say practically the same thing.

 

[Doggygirl]

Johnny's ad relates to the skating event because according to what KB said THAT is what Johnny was talking about in his press conference. It wan't said as a bash. It was said in the context of..................we really don't know that much about Johnny's training because instead of telling us in his press conference he CHOSE to discuss modeling in heels and fur. Now Johnny put this out there to begin with. It is an interesting thing about him. If he didn't want it discussed than maybe HE should not have mentioned it in his press conference.

.

Did you watch Johnny's press conference on that Ice*whatever* link? I admit that between following both Euros and US Nats, I didn't catch much of the press conference stuff (hope it's still there though, so I can go back and watch that while I *detox* from such a skating week!)

I DID watch a press conference of Johnny's, (and I'll bet there were multiples - I only watched one so far..). Johnny didn't bring up his modeling interests - he was asked about it. IMO, he gave a quite reasonable answer - he can't FS forever, there are constant injury risks, and (my general understanding) he's keeping his future career options open.

He was specifically asked in that interview about modeling in high heels and a mini dress. I thought he addressed the question quite appropriately - (again I am giving my own understanding/paraphrasing of what he said). My impression is that it was not "high heels and a mini dress" to him. It was shoes and an outfit on a modeling job. That made sense to me - I suspect top level models would probably say something similar about the actual *stuff* they model, when it's a job.

Don't get me wrong. I don't have to know Johnny personally to be completely aware that he KNEW going in that this would be interpreted as a drag ad, and that it would be controversial. I give him enough IQ credit going in, to believe he knows what his controversial interviews and other activities will bring.

As a mere FS fan, I will never know the inside scoop. All I can do (and all most of us can do) is go with our impressions, based on the limited sports coverage we get. My personal impression remains... I think the USFSA is a bit homophobic, which for a long list of reasons seems silly and unfair to me.

NOTES TO KB:

1) At least Johnny HAS some hair.

2) Do YOU KB, have the athletic talent to walk in those shoes? (I don't, much to Mr. Doggy's dissapointment!)

Please take those last comments in the fun spirit intended.

Here are my hopes for the 4CC coverage:

1) The eligible skaters from all eligible countries highly participate.

2) We get some good scoop on other SO's - I want to know who peopl;e like Buttle, NNN, Davis, Kimmie, E-Man, Joannie, and a whole bunch of others are dating. And Mr. Doggy will just be fantasizing about the new US pairs champions - no matter who they are dating. Who is Carolina dating these days? Jeez - I'm dragging my own thread in a Dirty Old Lady type direction!!

If the USFSA is sexual orientation neutral, than I am very, very happy about that. If they are not, I hope we can encourage them to move ever further in that direction.

Thanks again to all for the well presented opinions!

DG

 

[twinsissv]

I

Anyway, go Johnny! Skate your skate, live your life, and whoever doesn't like it can kiss the hem of your CCCP jacket.

:thumbsup: :agree: :yes: