Controversial Olympic Competitons

[Buttercup]

When Mme. La Gougne later campaigned for President of the French Federation against Gailhaguet (Gailhaguet won), she claimed that she made a great contribution to the sport, because it was the Salt Lake City controversy, thanks to her, that spurred the ISU to rush it's CoP scoring system into place.

She seriously said that? Well, I guess that would be one way of presenting it. Points for originality! Does this mean that Mme. La Gougne and Speedy had the whole thing planned in advance?

 

[blue dog]

She seriously said that? Well, I guess that would be one way of presenting it. Points for originality! Does this mean that Mme. La Gougne and Speedy had the whole thing planned in advance?

Perhaps! LOL-- she can legally judge the next Olympics, since the ban is over (she was banned for three years, and the following Olympics).

I find this so hypocritical. They ban Tonya for life, but let Marie back in after three years. They even let Didier be president again!

But back to the original topic--

A controversial contest (the gold medalist, though, won within the rules) was the 1972 ladies, with Beatrisa Schuba winning the gold over Karen Magnussen and Janet Lynn. This was attributed to her strength in the figures, which were 60% of the total score at the time. The controversy was that the people who saw the contest on TV did not understand the results, since the figures were not broadcasted and Schuba only finished 7th in the free skate. According to some (I do not have the websites sourced; sorry) this led to the addition of the short program. This controversy resurfaced in 1980, when Annet Poetzsch won the gold over Denise Biellmann who won the free skate. Again, like Schuba, Poetzsch won by the rules, but the rules were what the people had a problem with.

Another controversial contest (this one had to do with judges) was the 1984 dance competition. Of course, many agree on who won the gold that night, but it was the contest between bronze and 4th that was and is still debated by many. Blumberg/Siebert, the defending world bronze medalists were favored by many to win the Olympic bronze. However, because some judges had deemed their music to not have a change in rhythm (like Torvill and Dean's Bolero), they were placed behind Klimova/Ponomarenko.

Here are their FD's

K/P - http://youtube.com/watch?v=jjdi20VectU
B/S - http://youtube.com/watch?v=qKxe3h3RrRI

 

[sillylionlove]

Yes, some fans still continue debating over that, but it was not a close decision, because 6 judges out of 9 were for Urmanov and only 1 judge for Stojko. Even the Canadian judge prefered Urmanov....

That includes this judge (well arm chair judge) as well. I was never really a big fan of Elvis Stojko.

While not one of the most controversial....the most hyped Olympic competitions in recent memory was the Battle of the Brians.

 

[hockeyfan228]

The argument that S/P were robbed started the moment the marks went up, before any wrongdoing was uncovered, and this is what I meant by a faulty premise that got the whole thing started..

The controversy over Bauil vs. Kerrigan is a bloc judging argument. The controversy over S&P vs. B&S in SLC was a judging scandal. (Had LeGougne voted for S&P, then from the point-of-view of B&S fans, it would have been a controversy based on bloc judging.) A debate over the merits of skaters is a debate.

In the CBC commentary, right after the event, Underhill and Martini did not agree with the decision giving B&S the gold, but they did did not scream "wuzrobbed" . They went on to the next event until LeGougne broke down.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Yeah, in USA... Besides, how can one judge be chosen tipping the scales? He just prefered artistic skaters, in Nagano Hoffmann gave the 1st ordinal to Michelle Kwan.

By the way, Hoffmann did not won an Olympic gold medal, but the World Championships twice.

Jaana - This was politics. He was brought up in that climate of must win at any cost. I am not knocking Hoffman's medals. I did not see his World Championships. While he moved on with the fall of communism in Germany, he still had to deal with the loss of his prior existence. Easy to understand that he may have hated the US.

Did you see the recent PBS program regarding the German female swimmers who all won gold, and all took experimental steroids? Sad, these ladies did not even know (nor did the scientists) what the long term results would bring. One actually turned into a man; a few developed cancer, all had hair in places only a man can have, one committed suicide. They won the gold medals but at what price.

Of course, this has nothing to do with Oksana, but it does show just what a totalitaarian government will resort to. Winning is everything. When you are brought up with that belief, it's not easy to just let it go.

Check out the Swimming event for women in the Montreal Olympics. It was in the 70s I believe. At first it's shocking, then sad.

Joe

 

[MissIzzy]

Perhaps! LOL-- she can legally judge the next Olympics, since the ban is over (she was banned for three years, and the following Olympics).

If she ends up on the Ice Dance panel I am going to laugh...because for debates to come, I don't think there's any way of avoiding yells of wuzrobbed no matter who wins that competition, unless Delobel and Scheonfelder were to stay and win, or *maybge* if Dom and Shabs were up to full level and K&N won. If, of course D&S win, or K&N with D&S injured out, there will be the obvious screams of Russian judges. If Virtue and Moir win, there will be grumblings about Igor Shilband and possible mentions of home-ice advantage(please note that it will not matter if they are at Torvill&Dean quality at that time; that will not stop said grumblings from happening). If Tanith and Ben win...well, I'm not sure how it'll be framed exactly, but I highly doubt everyone will assume they won fairly.

 

[hockeyfan228]

In 1994 (or 1992) Olympics there was no East Germany anymore, but one Germany.

Not to the people who lived in Germany, especially in East Germany, who saw their standard of living drop, key social services fall away, and we suddenly the "poor cousins" of Germany. It was never clear that the majority of East Germans wanted unification. Free flow to the West, yes. Additional freedom, yes. The end of the Stasi, yes. Unification: much trickier, since they had little to say in the timeline and conditions.

People rarely change their philosophy of life over the course of an hour, however happy they were to see the Berlin Wall fall.

No matter how much the North American media might have hollered at the time, it would have been forgotten the next day as the Olympics moved on to the next event.

The US media. Canadian TV had already gone on to the next event.

In ladies, Arakawa won with a non-CoP style program. She skated beautifully, but left out both of her planned triple-triples and doubled her triple loop. She still got by far the highest tech marks.

I disagree. Under 6.0, Arakawa could have tossed in underrotated 3/3's without penalty, while if she had performed 3/2's after doing 3/3's in practice, the judges could very easily have dumped her. Under CoP, she was given credit for what she did. The 2Lo was not intentional; it could have happened just as easily in a 6.0 program as a CoP program. However, under 6.0, this would have been a "mistake" rather than a valid 2Lo. Under CoP, she got credit for a 2Lo.

The only non-level 4 element in Arakawa's program was her L3 straightine footwork sequence. That was not her content in 2004.

 

[Tonichelle]

I find this so hypocritical. They ban Tonya for life, but let Marie back in after three years. They even let Didier be president again!

Yes, but Tonya's ban was from the USFSA, not the ISU....

 

[dorispulaski]

No one who ever saw Trixi Schuba skate figures would have questioned her huge lead coming out of figures in the old system.

 

[nubka]

since you went by judging 6 to 3 yes. but they didn't judge fair. in that competition.
the us was pushing tara by being the youngest. the judges also stated they didn't care if the jumps were incorrectly done. take off and landing.
michelle was the only us skater (except of sa) they didn't judge unfairly. they did for all the other skaters.
Michelle HAD to SKATE PERFECT. NO FLAWS, no little sloppy landing, no weak landings, no anything. Tara, Sarah, Sasha, could have improper technique, low landings, wrong take off, underrotatted jumps and still win or medal. MICHELLE couldn't.
It is worse under the COP. In fact the skaters complain , compliment themselves that we don't have to SKATE PERFECT TO WIN.

Poor little MK...

By the way, I CAN HEAR YOU FINE.

 

[DragonPhoenix]

Really? I have to disagree.. I thought Carmen was brilliant

Agree :agree:

I mean, talk about presentation impact, brilliance, artistic line, artistry.

I can watch their programs over and over, and always find something new and interesting.

Navka/Kostomarov totally rock

 

[Mafke]

A controversial contest (the gold medalist, though, won within the rules) was the 1972 ladies, with Beatrisa Schuba winning the gold over Karen Magnussen and Janet Lynn. This was attributed to her strength in the figures, which were 60% of the total score at the time. The controversy was that the people who saw the contest on TV did not understand the results, since the figures were not broadcasted and Schuba only finished 7th in the free skate. According to some (I do not have the websites sourced; sorry) this led to the addition of the short program. This controversy resurfaced in 1980, when Annet Poetzsch won the gold over Denise Biellmann who won the free skate. Again, like Schuba, Poetzsch won by the rules, but the rules were what the people had a problem with.

I don't think that 1972 was controversial at all. Many people thought the results were ... unfortunate in a way, but nobody's ever questioned the legitimacy of the marks in any way. And her name is Beatrix, nickname Trixi (not Trixie as sometimes reported).

1980 was (and is) controversial, but it's usually not Biellmann (too far back after figures) but Fratianne that people talk about.
The thing is, most people only ever talk about figures and the LP. And AFAIK no one seriously doubts that the lp placements (Biellmann, Fratianne, Poetzsch) were legitimate. I think if there was monkey business it was in the SP were Poetzsch was suspiciously high after what people describe as a pretty mediocre program (though it wasn't a good night and lots of potential medalists bombed). I've never been able to find a video of her SP (her biggest weakness) there.

As for people not understanding the results. Please, you sound like Sonia Bianchetti. I was about 12 in 1972, knew nothing about skating, and I understood the results just fine. From the commentators, it was clear that there were two rounds of competition and that Schuba had built up such a lead in the first part that no one could catch her. Anyone who couldn't understand that was an idiot (or was burdened by listening to commentators who were idiots because they mention compulsories).
If anything novice attendees at the live event would have trouble understanding things (unless arena announcers talked about the first round of competition a lot) but there were at most a few thousand of those.

 

[Ladskater]

Yes, the worst that can be said about Torino 06 was that Plushy was overmarked . But the medals went to the right people, in all four events.

I didn't start watching regularly until 1999, so I can't comment on Lillehammer or Nagano, but I always felt that the pairs controversy in SLC started out based on a faulty premise - i.e. that S/P were robbed. While I could certainly understand why many felt that S/P skated the best performance on the night, I personally thought B/S had the stronger program, even with the error, and that a subjective panel could have called it either way. In retrospect, of course, it was good that the matter was investigated, but the media frenzy was at times appalling. I wonder, if the programs were scored retroactively based on CoP, which would have come out ahead.

Wasn't there some issue with the dance in 1998? I think one of the top teams fell or stumbled or something. I've also heard that some people felt Paul Wylie skated better than Victor Petrenko in Albertville. Perhaps the judges just wanted Petrenko to finally retire his free skate program?

S&P would still come out the winners because they had the skate of the night.

 

[Ptichka]

2006 Olympic were only non-controversial for the gold medalists. The rest is a different story - Zhangs' silver was anything but certain.

 

[Mafke]

2006 Olympic were only non-controversial for the gold medalists. The rest is a different story - Zhangs' silver was anything but certain.

Not to mention the Ukrainians in dance or the 2-4 finishers in ladies (Suguri clean IIRC and left off the podium because she couldn't bend her knee around her neck...)

 

[hockeyfan228]

Or maybe she was left off the podium because very few of her jumps were landed well.

 

[Buttercup]

In the CBC commentary, right after the event, Underhill and Martini did not agree with the decision giving B&S the gold, but they did did not scream "wuzrobbed" . They went on to the next event until LeGougne broke down.

There I agree with you - they were professional about the whole thing. In fact, I generally prefer the CBC and Eurosport clips on youtube to the NBC ones (Yagudin's Olympic LP is certainly much better viewed on CBC - the commentary on NBC was ridiculous).

But from what I remember, the American and Canadian press did not offer the same measured response, even before the information about M. La Gougne came out. Here's Slate.com's summary of select headlines and editorials in Canadian media sources from around that time http://www.slate.com/id/2062053 (most of the links no longer work). Some media outlets handled it well (i.e. critical of the judging without being over the top), others not as much.

2006 Olympic were only non-controversial for the gold medalists. The rest is a different story - Zhangs' silver was anything but certain.

Well, considering the history of Olympic figure skating, that's better than what happened in most previous games .

 

[mycelticblessing]

In 1994 the Cold War was still on. You probably don't remember that. Athletics were part of the Communist regime. All the Athletes were given the best of care with housing, food, expenses, and the best teaching and coaching facilities in whatever sport being played in an international arena. You probably don't know the Hockey Games at the Olys. And all the judges were part of that system!!
Joe

The Cold War pretty much ended when the Soviet Union collapsed. It was over by 1992. The athletes had benefitted from the sports system prior to the collapse. The argument that I usually come across is that the European judges preferred Oksana's balletic style, thus giving her higher presentation marks.

2006 Olympic were only non-controversial for the gold medalists. The rest is a different story - Zhangs' silver was anything but certain.

While I do admire her courage to stand up after the fall, they were definitely overmarked. P/T were robbed of a medal in Turin.

There I agree with you - they were professional about the whole thing. In fact, I generally prefer the CBC and Eurosport clips on youtube to the NBC ones (Yagudin's Olympic LP is certainly much better viewed on CBC - the commentary on NBC was ridiculous).

NBC has the worse figure skating commentators. They seem to hate Russian skaters or something. Yagudin's performance was a masterpiece. They even criticised T/M's perfect performance in Turin.:sheesh: Who do they hire anyway? They should fire them and get new commentators who are more partial in their comments.

 

[antmanb]

Well, obviously - but Marie-Reine Le Gougne was confronted about the matter because of the perception of S/P being robbed. Maybe she would have come forward with the story even without an investiagtion - maybe not. But the the feeling that S/P should have won gold was what got the ball rolling.

Not quite. I believe that Sally Stapleford had a more or less unprompted tearful confession from Marie Reine Le-Gougne and she then blew the whistle on her which is what really set the media alight.

Ant

 

[antmanb]

Perhaps! LOL-- she can legally judge the next Olympics, since the ban is over (she was banned for three years, and the following Olympics).

I find this so hypocritical. They ban Tonya for life, but let Marie back in after three years. They even let Didier be president again!

The USFSA banned Tonya for life not the ISU. The ISU did ban for life Sally Stapleford and (argh i forget his name now...someone help me) for blowing the whistle on Le Gougne and informing the ISU immediately of her confession. The whistelblowers get banned for life for having integrity. The cheaters get a three year ban. That is the way of the ISU, and then people are surprised that figure skating is a corrupt sport.

Ant