Could one of the Russian ladies become the best ladies skater EVER next season?

TallyT

Record Breaker
Joined
Apr 23, 2018
Country
Australia
Raf was right. Disposable cups.

I wouldn't go that far, and to be fair, one day the fantasy may very well turn into fact, they are very good at what they do. That's part of the problem, they are all very good at what they do, and while one or two may be at the top at any given moment none of them have as yet that really unique and iconically 'it' factor that sets them not only above but also apart from their countrywomen. Part of that may be their extreme youth, part of it may simply be they tend to blur in the public eye.

I just think of all the predicted-to-be-GOATS (and god, there have been a lot of them) who have for one reason or another faltered or fallen back. Let's just wait till one of those girls actually has pulled herself off the revolving wheel and maybe just maybe had at least one or two GOAT-worthy seasons before handing them the label, hmmm?
 

Amei

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 11, 2013
Figure skating is a tough sport to say best ever even of a "period" of time because part of the sport is tied to artistry and performance and not everyone is going to agree on what equals greatest. Determining "greatest ever" is difficult because competition programs are generally geared towards the scoring system, which we've seen get changed over the years.
 

ELEk3k

Rinkside
Joined
Jan 8, 2021
No. “Best skater ever” isn’t a title for one good senior season. It implies longevity, a presence in the sport for years and potentially multiple Olympics. As good as they are even Kamila who will be a first year senior next season is unlikely to make it to a second. Especially with how competitive Russian Ladies is someone would have to be head and shoulders above the rest for multiple years to be able to claim they’re the best.
Okay. But in sports competitions they do not record the number of years in sports, and the WR plate appears when someone makes it better in history: runs the fastest, passes, swims, jumps higher, etc., that is, they are measured in seconds, meters, score, etc., but not in the years of being in a particular sport, medals are not given for this.
 

Amei

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 11, 2013
Okay. But in sports competitions they do not record the number of years in sports, and the WR plate appears when someone makes it better in history: runs the fastest, passes, swims, jumps higher, etc., that is, they are measured in seconds, meters, score, etc., but not in the years of being in a particular sport, medals are not given for this.

Except most other sports jumping high, running the fastest, etc. is what determines the winner; figure skating not exclusive to jumping the highest or being the fastest across the ice, its the totality of 2 programs.
 

readernick

Medalist
Joined
Dec 5, 2015
In my opinion, it isn't possible or necessary to pronounce anyone the GOAT in figure skating or any other sport. Sports change as the years go on, and so does what is valued by the public and judges. Thus, it isn't possible to compare different eras. Even among the current skaters, people differ in their opinion about whose skating is the best or most beautiful. The current group of Russian girls are great figure skaters, the technical feats they accomplish are impressive. I think it is possible to appreciate these things, without declaring someone the GOAT. Such a title is really meaningless and only reflects the values of the one giving the title.
 

kirauza343

On the Ice
Joined
Oct 1, 2020
Okay. But in sports competitions they do not record the number of years in sports, and the WR plate appears when someone makes it better in history: runs the fastest, passes, swims, jumps higher, etc., that is, they are measured in seconds, meters, score, etc., but not in the years of being in a particular sport, medals are not given for this.
Even in those though the WR holders aren’t the end all be all in determining the best ever. The people that are considered GOATs have a legacy of wins, whether it’s Michael Phelps (5 Olympics, most decorated Olympian of all time), Usain Bolt (3 Olympics, 8/9 gold medals) or Simone Biles (only one Olympics at the moment because of Covid but more World Championship medals than any other gymnast).

It’s not Michael or Usain’s world records that cemented them as the best (in fact only one of Michael’s individual records still stands) or Simone’s best score but what they did time and time again. They weren’t the best in the world for one season or two but for a prolonged amount of time (and Simone’s case is even more impressive considering gymnastics skews young like figure skating does).
 

TallyT

Record Breaker
Joined
Apr 23, 2018
Country
Australia
Okay. But in sports competitions they do not record the number of years in sports, and the WR plate appears when someone makes it better in history: runs the fastest, passes, swims, jumps higher, etc., that is, they are measured in seconds, meters, score, etc., but not in the years of being in a particular sport, medals are not given for this.

No, but you need some level of longevity simply to be able to rack up a decent body of success. Yuna has 11 WRs and 17 international medals including 9 gold (and the OGM). Michelle Kwan also has 17 international medals including 9 gold. Both ladies are noted as one of if not the greatest of all time.

Because after all, what do you (the OP or anyone else for that matter) mean by Greatest of All Time anyway? Your own personal GOAT? The one your country/part of the world recognises? History's ruling, which is not going to come down on it for years, and probably overtaken before it does? General/fannish consensus, which no skater ever has or ever will get?

Who gets to control the narrative, after all? No one. Maybe one of the Russian girls will join Yuna and Michelle and their equivalents in the other disciplines in that elite "one of if not" group. But they'll have to build up some body of success first, or end up a shooting start like Yulia.
 

Thrashergurl

On the Ice
Joined
Oct 27, 2019
I think it will take more than a blip on the radar to become the GOAT. While Russia has amazing talent, it’s just for a short period of time. So far we haven’t seen any of the senior girls remain successful past 2, maybe 3 seasons. Did Medvedeva have 3 or4? Last years #1 isn’t considered competitive today (and that’s sad, because she has the potential to become a GOAT)
I think to be considered the GOAT there should be consistent results, longevity and obviously remaining at the top of the sport. One or 2 seasons and then being done might be more of a phenom, but not a GOAT.
 

Amei

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 11, 2013
I think it will take more than a blip on the radar to become the GOAT. While Russia has amazing talent, it’s just for a short period of time. So far we haven’t seen any of the senior girls remain successful past 2, maybe 3 seasons. Did Medvedeva have 3 or4? Last years #1 isn’t considered competitive today (and that’s sad, because she has the potential to become a GOAT)
I think to be considered the GOAT there should be consistent results, longevity and obviously remaining at the top of the sport. One or 2 seasons and then being done might be more of a phenom, but not a GOAT.

As a senior Medvedeva had:
  • 2 seasons 2015-2016 and 2016-2017 where she won everything
  • 2017-2018: she won her challenger and GP events, placed 2nd at Europeans and the Olympics (GPF, Worlds and nationals she WD from)
  • 2018-2019: she placed third at Worlds and won the Russian Cup Final. She had 2 other podium finishes: silver at a challenger and third at Skate Canada. She also finished 4th at GP France and 7th at Nationals.
 

Sweet Dream

Final Flight
Joined
Nov 16, 2014
For how long can these Russian girls skate and how many world titles can they get?Up to now the best female skater artistically is Kostornaya.
 

TallyT

Record Breaker
Joined
Apr 23, 2018
Country
Australia
The good thing is that skaters care much more about winning the upcoming competitions, getting into the team, staying healthy, etc. rather than about missing the title of the GOAT by some random biased fans.

Agreed, but let's not pretend that many if any of them do not dream of having their names inscribed and remembered in that top layer of the history of the sport.
 

brakes

On the Ice
Joined
Jan 31, 2020
Is that a real question?
Midori.
Well, I guess it is. For instance - by "jumping" I mean whole spectrum of a figure skating jump, which includes speed of rotation as well. We can discuss entrances/air position as well. What about versality when it comes to different types of jumps? I don't know the answer to my question, but I think there is a question.
 

yume

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 11, 2016
Well, I guess it is. For instance - by "jumping" I mean whole spectrum of a figure skating jump, which includes speed of rotation as well. We can discuss entrances/air position as well. What about versality when it comes to different types of jumps? I don't know the answer to my question, but I think there is a question.
Both made a revolution in the jumping game. Midori with 3-3 and 3A, Sasha with quads. But:
1. Midori has better jump quality (speed, height, distance, rotation). Don't talk to me about the leg wrap.
2. Midori was killing everyone on jump layout. Especially in 80's. While you have girls who can jump multiple quads like Sasha +3A. Though no one has jumpd 4 types of quads yet. I give her that.
3. Midori had massive jumps with heavier skates. A 4T wouldn't have been unreachable with today's skates.
4. A controversial one but Sasha "started" the revolution a bit by luck. She wasn't the first or the only one who could jump quads when she started. Luck played and huge role in her being the first to land 4T and the only junior to land quads during her 1st intl season. Had Shcherbakova had not injured herself, she could have done the same and Sasha wouldn't have had the spotlight for herself and wouldn't have been called "quad queen".
5. Some Midori's jumps layouts fom 30 years back would give a run for their money to nowaday's layouts.
6. Midori was doing rippon jumps way before Eteri made that compulsory in her camp.
7. Midori had combos like 2lo-3lo. So i think 3-3lo wasn't unreachable.
8. Midori jumped a +5GOE 2A at 48yo.
 

FelineFairy

On the Ice
Joined
Sep 13, 2020
In my opinion, it isn't possible or necessary to pronounce anyone the GOAT in figure skating or any other sport. Sports change as the years go on, and so does what is valued by the public and judges. Thus, it isn't possible to compare different eras. Even among the current skaters, people differ in their opinion about whose skating is the best or most beautiful. The current group of Russian girls are great figure skaters, the technical feats they accomplish are impressive. I think it is possible to appreciate these things, without declaring someone the GOAT. Such a title is really meaningless and only reflects the values of the one giving the title.
My thoughts, too. You can't choose the GOAT in any sport. You will always be stuck at the difference of the criteria. Number of Olympic victories: a wrong criterion. It depends on the number of events an athlete can compete in. Michael Phelps was able to achieve his record because it is swimming. He is a great athlete, but it is simply incomparable to someone who excels in another sport with few Olympic events. Bjørndalen, who competed in more Games, just couldn't get a comparable number of events. Even within one sport the number of victories depends on the number of admitted events, if it grows from Games to Games. World records: a wrong criterion. Some world records are quite close to the borders of human abilities, they might stay untouched for decades, others are raised step by step. Take the great Sergey Bubka in pole vault, he simply tried to add a cm or two, not 10 cm, to his next height, thus setting so many records. Longevity: a wrong criterion. The development of some sorts simply eradicate longevity. Who is greater, Latynina or Biles? Both, it's incomparable. Technical complexity: wrong criterion. It depends not only on the abilities, but also on the rules. Olga Korbut's bars element is prohibited now because of being too dangerous, does it make Olga GOAT in gymnastics? And everything "artistic" is mostly subjective. Incomparable, too, although people can argue about it for ages.
In ladies' FS the sport has changed so much and so quickly that it is simply impossible to find suitable criteria. While new strong athletes appear constantly without skipping generations (on a different scale in different schools), it is both fantastic to enjoy what they can do and sad to never see one's past favourites compete and win again. It seems to me that choosing a GOAT among any group of skaters is just a fan's wish to express the love for one's favourites. Nostalgic if it is one from the past, happy if it is one of the young newcomers. But the latter should not forget that the newcomers will be ousted by more newcomers. And the former should not forget that their favourites, although they had stayed longer in the sport to gain fans, had also ousted somebody's "GOATs".
 
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