Cup of China - Ladies Short Program - LIVE!!!!!!!!!!!

[Doggygirl]

Interesting Mathman...

...especially to the degree the other high scores happened to be on home ice (not sure if that was a factor anyway) and Irina was not on home ice. On the other hand, I don't think China really had a serious "dog in the hunt."

It's cool to be able to track scores and make some sort of relative comparison between competitions. I wonder if someday the Grand Prix finalists will be selected based on scores rather than podium placements. That might take all the fun out of it though. Maybe not. Hmmmm....yet another COP possibility to ponder.

But at any rate, good for her and I sure wish I could SEE it!!

My fingers are also crossed for Angela to make the GPF!

DG

 

[wvgal57]

I'm so happy for Irina. This program most likely will be tweaked a bit too to get better component scores. Great for the debut for Irina under COP. Also, she was shaky on a couple of the new spins she said and she expects to improve on them!

 

[GlitterTwist]

I'm very happy for Irina because I know she's been working so hard, and she's been through so much since SLC, it's finally paying off. I'm also very glad for Angela, who's also been through a lot. Hopefully Angela will take the silver here and make her way to the GPF, to a possible medal I sure picked the wrong person in the ladies event for Gold Picks lol I picked Miki, who looks like she struggled during the short program. Guess I'll have to hope for the right picks on Trophee Eric Bompard. Is it just me, or does Trophee Lalique sound a million times better?

 

[Doggygirl]

I agree Glitter...

That LaLique (sp) has a more lyrical ring to it IMO.

However....

When it comes time for the Rusty Hanger awards....

"And the Rusty Hanger Award for Trophee Eric Bombard goes to Brian Joubert for his Boat!"

I guess that has a certain ring to it as well.

DG

 

[ATW27]

Woo-hoo! I'm more than happy; the top-6 are all the skaters that I wanted to be in the top-6 (I realize that this is only the Short, but it's half the battle, at least)! Great to see Irina and Vika back to form. And good to see Elina holding her own with the big guns again, too; she's one of my favorites, and I was so sorry for her that last season went so poorly. Cudos to Angela and Joannie, as well. High marks for Jenna, too, for a solid performance. It's gonna be interesting to see how it all turns out Saturday; this should be some competiton to see.
Kick some major butt, girls!

Andy W.

 

[mzheng]

Irina.

I just knew she will on fire at CoC. It's about the time since her winning of 2002 worlds.

If she is holding on in LP, I'll add her into the mixing of SA and MK at the worlds.

 

[GlitterTwist]

Mzheng, don't forget about Sasha Cohen for worlds! If she can heal and start training, I'd say it's about time she won a world title!

 

[Nadine]

Interesting...

First off, CONGRATS to Irina Slutskaya, knew she would be back with a vengeance! :agree:

That said, have read the official ISU report, as well as some other skating sites, and one from a person whom actually saw this live. And all said that Miki Ando did not miss a thing -- i.e. 3Z/3R, 3F, 2A. However, once again (just as at SkateAmerica & NHK) her 3Z/3R was downgraded to a 3Z/2R (double whammied also). Hmm, I can understand her 4S always being downgraded b/c I have never seen it fully rotated by 1/4 or less. But, her 3Z/3R is pretty consistent, and is rarely if ever more than a 1/4 rotation short. Seems like in the SP, it gets downgraded but not in the FS, which makes me think that the SP is far stricter than the FS. Thus, I think Miki should reserve her 3Z/3R/2T for the FS only, and instead just do a simple 3Z/2R in the SP (thereby avoiding the double whammy; same thing with the 4S). JMHO. Btw, Miki's SP score here practically matches the one she had @ NHK (i.e. 49.76 vs. 50.90; SkateAmerica was her best SP score so far btw - 53.64).

***Note: what's interesting is that the competitors in 3rd-5th place are virtually tied at 49+ pts. total, with VV only 4 pts. above them in 2nd. Which means it's going to be a DOG FIGHT for silver & bronze! Btw, at NHK, Miki was 14 pts. behind Shizuka after the SP, but she made up ground during the FS to close that gap to only 9 pts.; whereas here at COC, she's 13 pts. behind Irina. Never say never!***

One last note, read that other than Irina & Miki, everybody else had probs. ~ Angela stepped out of her 3Z & one spin ~ Viktoria had similar problems. And Joannie Rochette fell on her combo., which just reinforces to me that Miki Ando needs to just go for the simpler 3Z/2R. Thereby she will receive more points than she currently is with the downgraded 3Z/3R, which takes TWO hits -- one for being downgraded to a 2R, then another for receiving a negative GOE. Still, she should keep it for the FS. JMHO.

***Note: oops, also Miki needs to improve her spins (though they're getting there) & spirals if she wants to stop being the bridesmaid and start being the bride. ***

Peace & Love, Nadine

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

They ganged up on me when I said Irian to win Worlds in Moscow. This is a sign I just may be right.

Just look at Joannie Rochette's component scores. Way up there with Angela.

Joe

 

[diver chick]

I am really happy to see Irina back and seemingly in fighting form. She is one of my favourite skaters and I love that she is so honest! However, as much as I would love to see her win here, I am not holding my breath.

Coming back from an illness like hers and training as little as she has in the past year is going to severely affect her fitness levels and the free skate is going to be a real test for her. Still if anyone can pull it out of the bag, Irina can and by all accounts neither Angela or Viktoria are at full fitness so she has every chance in the world of winning this.

 

[alain707]

However, once again (just as at SkateAmerica & NHK) her 3Z/3R was downgraded to a 3Z/2R (double whammied also). Hmm, I can understand her 4S always being downgraded b/c I have never seen it fully rotated by 1/4 or less. But, her 3Z/3R is pretty consistent, and is rarely if ever more than a 1/4 rotation short. Seems like in the SP, it gets downgraded but not in the FS, which makes me think that the SP is far stricter than the FS. Thus, I think Miki should reserve her 3Z/3R/2T for the FS only, and instead just do a simple 3Z/2R in the SP (thereby avoiding the double whammy; same thing with the 4S).

I think this stupid rule of downgrading an underrotated triple to a double should be gotten rid of in the first place. An 1/4 short triple is by no way a double especially if the landing is on one foot and there is good flow out of it. Currently, it is even considered as a bad double. That mistake should be penalised in the GoE. Things are absurd as they are now. If the triple jump is within1/4 underrotation it is counted as a triple (base value 5,5 for a flip, the jump could get 4,5 if the average GoE is -1), and if there is just a little bit more underrotation, it becomes a bad double (base value for double flip 1,7 and you can get as low as 1 with a GoE of -2). Over 3 pts of difference between two jumps that otherwise look the same.
At the same time judges are BLIND at flutzing and lipping. And how about jumps that are underrotated on takeoff (ie the skate lingers on the ice a bit too long, and too much of the rotation happens on the ice) ? That kind of error is pointed at in the ISU judging rule, but do judges apply it ?

 

[diver chick]

I haven't seen the skating so I can't comment on this particular incident.

However I agree, it is not right to ignore 'lips' and 'flutz's' yet downgrade under-rotated triples to doubles. The jump should be marked for what it is and not what it was supposed to be. In all cases!

I wonder how many of these underrotated jumps are severly under-rotated. 1/4 turn short is a bit in my terms and some skaters have a habit of not only under rotating on the landing but actually doing a partial turn on the ice before take off. IIRC Volchkova does this a bit.

Also I rarely see a skater manage to get a clean flowing edge out of a jump they have underrotated so I am not sure that would be a way to judge the quality.

Anyway, just some random thoughts.

 

[tukinowaguma]

I have watched Ando's 3L-3R more than 20 times in last 3 yeas ｉｎｃｌｕｄｉｎｇ lives
I think that's 3－3 ｉｓ the worst that I have seen.
However, I cannot be convinced to the score of Ando's TCS. especially skating skill. Do referees dislike Ando?

By the way, do you know the meaning of Miki's name? Japanese and Chinese people could understand. A meaning is a [beautiful princess] with a Chinese character. I like her name. And Ｉ hope that she is to be the princess of figure skating .

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

I haven't seen the skating so I can't comment on this particular incident.

However I agree, it is not right to ignore 'lips' and 'flutz's' yet downgrade under-rotated triples to doubles. The jump should be marked for what it is and not what it was supposed to be. In all cases!

I wonder how many of these underrotated jumps are severly under-rotated. 1/4 turn short is a bit in my terms and some skaters have a habit of not only under rotating on the landing but actually doing a partial turn on the ice before take off. IIRC Volchkova does this a bit.

Also I rarely see a skater manage to get a clean flowing edge out of a jump they have underrotated so I am not sure that would be a way to judge the quality. Anyway, just some random thoughts.

Absolutely on underrotated jumps. (The underroted also begins on the ice at the takeoff but that is overlooked.) The Caller can actually change the attempted jump to a lower jump, yet he can not change a flutz to a flip which is exactly what a skater does. And the lip to a lutz. Where is the rationale?

Joe

 

[Ptichka]

Well, according to ISU, "severe change of edge on take-off of flip or lutz" is an automatic -3 on the jump. Now, if they apply it, then a triple lutz with -3 is 6.0-3.0, which is 3 points. That's less than a triple flip with -2 (that would be 5.5).

 

[ks777]

I think this stupid rule of downgrading an underrotated triple to a double should be gotten rid of in the first place. An 1/4 short triple is by no way a double especially if the landing is on one foot and there is good flow out of it. Currently, it is even considered as a bad double. That mistake should be penalised in the GoE. Things are absurd as they are now. If the triple jump is within1/4 underrotation it is counted as a triple (base value 5,5 for a flip, the jump could get 4,5 if the average GoE is -1), and if there is just a little bit more underrotation, it becomes a bad double (base value for double flip 1,7 and you can get as low as 1 with a GoE of -2). Over 3 pts of difference between two jumps that otherwise look the same.
At the same time judges are BLIND at flutzing and lipping. And how about jumps that are underrotated on takeoff (ie the skate lingers on the ice a bit too long, and too much of the rotation happens on the ice) ? That kind of error is pointed at in the ISU judging rule, but do judges apply it ?

I totally agree with you. I am so confused about this judging system. It seems like all of Miki Ando's jumps got deductions including the double axel. It seems as if the judges hate Ando. I think Irina was overmarked. It's just absurd.

 

[Nadine]

RIGHT ON, Alain77...

I think this stupid rule of downgrading an underrotated triple to a double should be gotten rid of in the first place. An 1/4 short triple is by no way a double especially if the landing is on one foot and there is good flow out of it. Currently, it is even considered as a bad double. That mistake should be penalised in the GoE. Things are absurd as they are now. If the triple jump is within1/4 underrotation it is counted as a triple (base value 5,5 for a flip, the jump could get 4,5 if the average GoE is -1), and if there is just a little bit more underrotation, it becomes a bad double (base value for double flip 1,7 and you can get as low as 1 with a GoE of -2). Over 3 pts of difference between two jumps that otherwise look the same.
At the same time judges are BLIND at flutzing and lipping. And how about jumps that are underrotated on takeoff (ie the skate lingers on the ice a bit too long, and too much of the rotation happens on the ice) ? That kind of error is pointed at in the ISU judging rule, but do judges apply it ?

ITA, alain77!

Really no need for me to repeat what you just stated b/c you were right on! However, I will add that in Miki Ando's case she should get at least one +GOE on practically ALL her solo triple jumps due to the power, ice coverage, and height on them. That being the case especially where the 3Z is concerned -- absolutely NO extra turn or half turn whatsoever on the takeoff (also it's a true lutz) -- simply amazing (especially considering the fact that most skaters do take a 1/2 turn on the takeoff)! One only need do a slo-mo on his/her VCR to know what I speak of. 'nuff said. Oops, one more thing, her 3F & 3S are also beauts (no wonder she goes for the 4S; her 3S is humongous)!

***Note: however, she can be inconsistent at times ~ one day she'll skate what she's capable of ~ another day she'll have an off day (like night & day). And I found out this was the case @ COC ~ finally read a report where it said her jumps were "shakey" ~ now her marks make sense, at least to me.***

tukinowaguma, thanks for your input on Miki as well. Just wanted to add that I, too, have watched Miki since I first saw her @ 2002 Jr. Worlds. And have slo-moed each & every one of her elements since that time to catch any underrotation. And, yes, when she first started out her 3Z/3R was horrible -- severely underrotated by more than a 1/2 -- then the next year 1/3 underrotated -- however this past year it has been no more than 1/4 underrotated (no lie). She has definitely come A LONG WAY, BABY! :agree: But, that said, I think she should just forget about adding a second 3/3 b/c it seems to take a lot out of her in the way of rotation. For instance, at SkateAmerica the 3S/3R was underrotated by more than a 1/2 (more like 3/4th). And that goes for the 4S as well -- have to be honest & say that I have never seen it not underrotated -- has always been either 1/2 underrotated or at best 1/3rd, nothing less. So, I say, get rid of it, though I feel like shedding a tear b/c it was totally AWESOME to see her go for it (& with the old system I'm sure she would've got credit for it). I really feel it's just a matter of time, just like the 3Z/3R took a period of around 3 yrs. to get to the point where it's only 1/4 underrotated (it started out as 1/2 underrotated the 1st yr., then 1/3 the 2nd yr., until now only 1/4). But, with the Olympics only a year & a half away, she doesn't have time for it ~ not with concentrating on BOTH the 3Z/3R and the 4S ~ takes way too much out of her, and also I think is the reason why she has an injured right shoulder right now, since the salchow jump is known for using that particular shoulder to get the torque & rotation to do the jump in the first place. Time to let it go, and concentrate on the finer elements (aka spins, spirals, footwork, entries, etc.), thereby eliminating any further injury to her right shoulder, which could put her out of contention all together (ala Angela Nikodinov's shoulder surgery took her out of competition for almost a year; was due to the 3S jump btw). Just my zero cents worth.

Peace & Love, Nadine

P.S. My hope for the future is that the COP is tweaked by next year so that skaters don't get double-whammied for risk, as has been the case where Miki Ando is concerned. NO downgrading when it is quite obvious that a skater is attempting a triple jump (or quad). Just take off on the GOE (-3 if underrotated by more than a 1/2 and/or two-footed, -2 if underrotated by a 1/3, -1 if poorly executed on takeoff or landing ala turnout, et al).

:yes:BRING ON THE FS IN 3 HRS. TIME!!! WOOHOO!!!

 

[RealtorGal]

Too bad that Angela is skating first in the 2nd group in the FS. That is probably not going to work to her advantage. Hopefully she will lay down a great skate.