- Joined
- Dec 9, 2017
And also some spin positions, but other times too much turnout can interfere with spin technique. Not to mention jump technique.
How does it interfere?
And also some spin positions, but other times too much turnout can interfere with spin technique. Not to mention jump technique.
How does it interfere?
On the subject of attempting to translate dance to ice... I am generally not a fan for several reasons, firstly (and perhaps unkindly), most skaters simply don't have the requisite training to pull it off. Alina's program was mentioned somewhere on the thread, and it's a good example of a skater trying very hard to "be balletic" without really being able to. And that's not a reflection on her alone; it was also the program itself. Movements that would look fluid on a stage with a trained dancer look really choppy on the ice. Carolina's modern program (was it last year? I can't remember) was, however, an example of a dance-like program I thought was done very well.
Skating and dancing are also different enough that movements don't translate well. Ballet music is also set in such a way that it suits dance timing and rhythms, which don't always work with skating rhythms. It winds up looking oddly misplaced/mismatched. Someone mentioned too that music from traditional ballets is quite grand, and skaters seem to forget that it's usually adult professional dancers (soloists and principals no less), who tend to have the kind of skill that allows them to not be swallowed up by such large music.
Thanks for this, too! Yes, I do sometimes find it weird that some claim it's a foundation for all dance. Of course it wouldn't be a foundation for folk dances from, say, Asia. Also, while standard and latin ballroom likely draw from ballet technique at this point (at least for ease of movement, arm placement, lines, etc.), the roots of latin are definitely not based on ballet, as far as I know.
How does having good turn out affect skating? I can see the use of deep knees/plie, but what does turnout do?
Keep in mind that good skating technique involves gliding smoothly on edges on one foot at a time. Skaters will include a lot of that kind of locomotion in their competitive programs because that is what is rewarded in the scoring. They'll also include a lot of crossovers and similar simple stroking to gain speed for jumps. They'll do what they can with the upper body and free leg to try to match the musical style and just generally to make the simple skating look interesting and attractive.
Dancing on the ice with moves that rely a lot on having two feet on the ice or a lot of up-and-down movement that impedes horizontal flow, or really any staccato movements, will need to be used sparingly in a competitive program. They may add to the Interpretation and other program component scores, but to the extent they detract from the Skating Skills score or get in the way of executing the elements, they would be more likely to lead to lower overall scores than overuse of non-gliding moves.
In a show program, there's no need to worry about scores so anything goes.
“The impetus for our movement as a pair should be quite similar to that of the ballroom world,” said Virtue. “But we have just that forward-backward plane of motion with our blades. It’s very tough to transfer ballroom technique onto the ice, to give the illusion of the proper hip motion and position, with the speed and glide of the blade.
“You have to figure out how to incorporate the lateral movement and still keep the flow and integrity of the skating,” she said. “We try to give the effect of ballroom, but we often have to get there through very different means.”
“We always claim that we do contemporary stuff, but don’t really,” Moir said, of their competitive routines.
Virtue started studying ballet, “my first love,” as a girl, going to summer classes at the National Ballet School, where she was eventually offered a place as a full-time student. By that time, she had already committed to skating with Moir, and decided that ballet would be better as a second pursuit. “But it was disheartening, because skating trains the opposite muscles,” she said. “My proficiency with ballet was on a steep decline the more I skated.”
Oh, yes, arabesques are not really done. But why would you not classify the back charlotte spiral as arabesque penche with the upper body reaching your legs, then? Though it does look more like a Yoga pose.
Wouldn't the bent leg be an interpretation of arabesque in attitude? (I don't remember how it looked though)
I didn't know it was called a needle! The people on that show called it an assisted arabesque penche https://youtu.be/Ar_N_miwCGI?t=1m45s
I know it's not in classical ballet, that dancer is a jazz/contemporary dancer. What's a Kerrigan, then?
I don’t think classical ballet lines or trying to achieve the classical ballet ideal is necessary nor even truly possible in figure skating
Those photos linked to earlier are not classical positions other than the first photo - I think that is Gillian Murphy from ABT?
I do like the use of classical epaulment though - and classical arm positions. Honestly I think Nathan is quite balletic in this regard and he does have 180 degree turnout as well. Wondering what other (current) skaters have had serious ballet training?
Speaking of Asia, and let me know if this is OT because the OP was talking about Western forms of dance, one of the things that struck me recently re: Yuzuru's Seimei is the drawing on different Japanese movement vocabularies. Not just the movements such as the opening pose, which are tied to the ritual of exorcism as performed in the movie, but a certain quieter passage that leapt out at me because it reminded me of classical dancing I've seen done by geisha/geiko but iirc also by dancing onnagata performers in kabuki. I'll have to look up videos, but the what I informally call "sleevework" combined with a soft downward, almost coy glance was one of those moments that grabbed my attention.
Keeping this short in case it is deemed OT...
Speaking of Asia, and let me know if this is OT because the OP was talking about Western forms of dance, one of the things that struck me recently re: Yuzuru's Seimei is the drawing on different Japanese movement vocabularies. Not just the movements such as the opening pose, which are tied to the ritual of exorcism as performed in the movie, but a certain quieter passage that leapt out at me because it reminded me of classical dancing I've seen done by geisha/geiko but iirc also by dancing onnagata performers in kabuki. I'll have to look up videos, but the what I informally call "sleevework" combined with a soft downward, almost coy glance was one of those moments that grabbed my attention.
Keeping this short in case it is deemed OT...
When Yuzuru did Seimei and won Olympics because of it, my hope is that it will become an impetus for future skaters to skate to traditional non-Western songs too, since we better be true about the meaning of "Worlds" in Worlds Championships I think.