Why is music recycled so often in figure skating?

[Magill]

One question: Was Hanyu's SEIMEI revolutionary ?

I am not sure if I understand you correctly and I am by no means an expert on the history of the sport, yet, if I got what you mean, I did watch a documentary on Yuzuru which claimed Seimei was in fact "revolutionary" in that it introduced Asian "traditional" music (I mean, not Jpop or Kpop etc) into competitive figure skating setting. The doc claimed this music genre had not been used this way before because Asian skaters were worried about the judges reactions, were afraid it might badly affect the way they would be scored and preferred going for safer, Western or Westernized, musical choices. Further on, the doc claimed it was one of the reasons why Yuzuru's Seimei was met there with such a wide applause (apart from the fact it was an iconic program on its own anyway) as it was very strongly stressing his ethnic Asian identity, and he was the ruling OGM then, so it was widely appreciated.
Again, I am not sure how true it is but I do not recall any eye-catching inconsistencies in this doc otherwise so I just took it at face value and tend to believe this is how it was. If true, it might indeed bring some insight into the musical choices regarding warhorses against music more characteristic of individual skater's background or ethnicity.
If true, it also speaks tonnes on the racial bias in the sport (or its perception).

 

[denise3lz]

I am not sure if I understand you correctly and I am by no means an expert on the history of the sport, yet, if I got what you mean, I did watch a documentary on Yuzuru which claimed Seimei was in fact "revolutionary" in that it introduced Asian "traditional" music (I mean, not Jpop or Kpop etc) into competitive figure skating setting. The doc claimed this music genre had not been used this way before because Asian skaters were worried about the judges reactions, were afraid it might badly affect the way they would be scored and preferred going for safer, Western or Westernized, musical choices. Further on, the doc claimed it was one of the reasons why Yuzuru's Seimei was met there with such a wide applause (apart from the fact it was an iconic program on its own anyway) as it was very strongly stressing his ethnic Asian identity, and he was the ruling OGM then, so it was widely appreciated.
Again, I am not sure how true it is but I do not recall any eye-catching inconsistencies in this doc otherwise so I just took it at face value and tend to believe this is how it was. If true, it might indeed bring some insight into the musical choices regarding warhorses against music more characteristic of individual skater's background or ethnicity.
If true, it also speaks tonnes on the racial bias in the sport (or its perception).

I remember FCCJ interview in 2018, when he was questioned about next program he talked about current program.
So he had strong commitment about it.

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www.youtube.com

I was impressed about it. But reaction was very little.
I interpreted it
1. As the program was actually recycled from 2015-16 season thus these kind of talk was done in 2015.
2. So called western people did not like it but downplaying is not politically correct so they just ignored.

 

[TallyT]

I recall an article that said Yuzuru was actually (behind the scenes) advised against doing a piece so strongly outside the comfort zone of figure skating's admittedly narrow musical confines because yes, conservative judges might look squint-eyed at something that sounded so different. I would call Seimei unique (how many music cuts are instantly recognised before the second note has played?) rather than revolutionary, simply because few major skaters from other non-Western cultures have tried to bring those cultures' music in (costumes, yes that's safer, but even there Seimei and Tenchi were far in advance) or done so much research or been... well, a GOAT. And I don't blame them. But it will take a real shakeup for skating to embrace world music, I don't see it happening myself.

I love love love Rita's Breakfast in Baghdad but can't really say how successful an attempt it was to break new music in (not very, I fear). Now of course, there's more kpop being used. And people complaining about it

 

[Magill]

I remember FCCJ interview in 2018, when he was questioned about next program he talked about current program.
So he had strong commitment about it.

66å¹´ã¶ãäºè¼ªé£è¦ ç·åãã£ã®ã¥ã¢ç¾½ççµå¼¦é¸æãä¼è¦ï¼2018å¹´2æ27æ¥ï¼Press Conference: Yuzuru Hanyu

https://thepage.jp/detail/20180226-00000005-wordleafå¹³æäºè¼ªç·åãã£ã®ã¥ã¢ã®éã¡ããªã¹ããç¾½ççµå¼¦é¸æï¼23ï¼ã27æ¥åå¾1æåããæ±äº¬ã®æ¥æ¬å¤å½ç¹æ´¾å¡åä¼ã§ä¼è¦ãããä¼è¦ã¯1æéã®äºå®ãâ THE PAGEï¼ã¶ã»ãã¼ã¸ï¼ - æ°ã«ãªããã¥ã¼ã¹ãããããããhtt...

www.youtube.com

I was impressed about it. But reaction was very little.
I interpreted it
1. As the program was actually recycled from 2015-16 season thus these kind of talk was done in 2015.
2. So called western people did not like it but downplaying is not politically correct so they just ignored.

I remember this interview, yes. I think Seimei was indeed very important and had a very special significance both for Yuzuru and for his fans, As for its reception in the West, I know many many people who love it and it is generally believed one of the most iconic skating programs ever. So I wouldn't say it wasn't well received. It also gave Yuzuru several world records so it got very high scores from the judges. But obviously people here are mostly unaware of who Seimei was, the story behind it, its impact, so they do not fully appreciate it for what it is just because they do not know Japanese culture well enough. I also do not think many people would be aware that skaters from Asia and even from less "mainstream" Western countries hesitate to use their ethnic music fearing for its reception by the judges and by the public and how it might affect their scores. It is just not common knowledge so I think it is actually good that it was brought up here in the context of music choices.
As for downplaying or ignoring, well, I think if it happens, it is more about fighting fandoms than anything else. Although I do not deny that despite political correctness, racism, sadly, exists also within figure skating community, just like within all our societies in general.
As for your question about Rika and Breakfast in Baghdad -oh, I love it, it was great. And again, it was so fresh, so unique, so different and uniquely hers., and such a great and unusual music choice! I miss Rika so much!

 

[labgoat]

I would like someone to recycle this piece of music, Sunflower, preferably one of the Ukrainian teams. I first remember it used by Judy Blumberg & Michael Seibert and haven’t forgotten it to this day They became my favorite US dancers that day. The music is Malagueña-Sunflower-A Bicycle Built for Joy from Butch Cassidy & the Sundance Kid

I Girasoli ï¼ã²ã¾ããï¼Sunflowerï¼ ï¼ Love theme from 'Sunflower'

Musicï¼é³æ¥½ï¼ï¼ 'Love theme from Sunflower' by Henry Mancini #ãã³ãªã¼ãã³ã·ã¼ãAlbumï¼ã¢ã«ãã ï¼ï¼Sunflowerfrom movie "I Girasoli"ï¼"Sunflower" 1970 Italy1970å¹´å¬é ã¤ã¿ãªã¢ã»ãã©ã³ã¹ã»ã½é£ã®åä½æ ...

youtu.be

Judy Blumberg and Michael Seibert - 1980 U.S. Championships FD

youtu.be

 

[icewhite]

I recall an article that said Yuzuru was actually (behind the scenes) advised against doing a piece so strongly outside the comfort zone of figure skating's admittedly narrow musical confines because yes, conservative judges might look squint-eyed at something that sounded so different. I would call Seimei unique (how many music cuts are instantly recognised before the second note has played?) rather than revolutionary, simply because few major skaters from other non-Western cultures have tried to bring those cultures' music in (costumes, yes that's safer, but even there Seimei and Tenchi were far in advance) or done so much research or been... well, a GOAT. And I don't blame them. But it will take a real shakeup for skating to embrace world music, I don't see it happening myself.

I love love love Rita's Breakfast in Baghdad but can't really say how successful an attempt it was to break new music in (not very, I fear). Now of course, there's more kpop being used. And people complaining about it

Is there really a lot of K-pop being used? Apart from Semenenko's free last year I only remember galas? (Okay, maybe there's some BTS here and there but I don't even regard them as k-pop, and I can't remember such a competition program from the top of my head, but that might also be due to the complete blandness of the music...)

 

[icewhite]

I can't tell how much petty racism from the year 1890 or whatever there is in today's figure skating. But it's not just Asian music that doesn't get picked. German teams also don't pick German music apart from the classical stuff that is well-integrated into the canon of warhorses. I don't think fear of racism is the reason. It's not even about choosing "world music" in my eyes. It's about using normal music that's commonly known in your own country, which often doesn't happen, for some weird reasons.

 

[TallyT]

Is there really a lot of K-pop being used? Apart from Semenenko's free last year I only remember galas? (Okay, maybe there's some BTS here and there but I don't even regard them as k-pop, and I can't remember such a competition program from the top of my head, but that might also be due to the complete blandness of the music...)

Not a lot, but more than there used to be I think (of course there used to be none)

 

[mrrice]

About the age, I don't get that. When I was younger I always heard "the judges are so old". It sounds like they are all in their 80s and 90s. Now I am in my late 30s and I see the judges at big competitions getting up and many are hardly older than me. Lady Gaga should be 100% mainstream for them. I mean, I really don't get it. It doesn't look like the judges are so old, but they must be extremely conservative people, and in addition not listen to much music if they only have a musical repertoire of 30 songs they know.
Urgh, I just don't know... I often wonder if the judges are such a weird folk or if it's more the skaters and coaches being so afraid and not knowing or liking much music themselves when they actually wouldn't be punished by the judges for different music...

This is a sad yet, absolutely true fact. When I was coaching, I knew before we stepped foot on that dance floor how we were going to place. When you've been out there for more than a decade, you know every judge and they know you. It does get contentious at times when you're being judged by one of your former students. That began to happen near the end of my coaching days. It was what helped my decision to go into judging. Look at Plushy and Yags......I know Plushy has competitive skaters, can you imagine Yags judging his skaters?? A nightmare. Or in my case.....A dream. I love Plushy.

 

[moonvine]

Then you would've really hated compulsory dance!

Also, it's kind of hard to not have some repeats as everyone doesn't consult with others in their competitive field around the world to see what they are and aren't skating to prior to picking their own music.

Sure, but you don't need to do "Bolero." What will you do with it no one else has done?

I doubt anyone else is doing "Cotton Eyed Joe" this season.

 

[moonvine]

About the age, I don't get that. When I was younger I always heard "the judges are so old". It sounds like they are all in their 80s and 90s. Now I am in my late 30s and I see the judges at big competitions getting up and many are hardly older than me. Lady Gaga should be 100% mainstream for them. I mean, I really don't get it. It doesn't look like the judges are so old, but they must be extremely conservative people, and in addition not listen to much music if they only have a musical repertoire of 30 songs they know.
Urgh, I just don't know... I often wonder if the judges are such a weird folk or if it's more the skaters and coaches being so afraid and not knowing or liking much music themselves when they actually wouldn't be punished by the judges for different music...

It's my understanding, though I could be wrong, that there's a mandatory retirement age of 65....so they can't be but so wrong if that's accurate. If it isn't, I'm wrong, lord knows that's happened before and will again.

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

Sure, but you don't need to do "Bolero." What will you do with it no one else has done?

I doubt anyone else is doing "Cotton Eyed Joe" this season.

Excuse me?

 

[moonvine]

Excuse me?

Oh sorry! Tomas-Llorenc GUARINO SABATE (yes, I copied and pasted it, in fear of typing it incorrectly) did a country western number that included horse noises and the Cotton Eyed Joe at Autumn Classic. It was not for everyone, but I LOVED it. Much better than yet another Roxxxannnnne, Rain in Your Black Eyes, PTO, whatever flavor of emo is in with the kids today, etc.

I have to say also my Keegan never had boring music and my man Jimmy doesn't generally either. If he does at least he dubsteps to it.

 

[eppen]

Sorry to return to a slightly earlier tangent - Japanese skating community seems to be still very convinced that their own music will not be accepted. Looking at the program choises by top Japanese skaters in the 2000s certainly seems to verify this. In that sense, Hanyu's decision to use Seimei with the traditional flute at the start and end was unusual. I have always thought that beside those seconds with the flute, the rest is pretty normal movie music strongly in the western traditions, it could be music from a movie from almost any place in the world. However, I think Hanyu's example has not been followed, as they're still not choosing Japanese music, not even stuff like the big movie music hits (eg Joe Hisaishi who has been used by skaters from all over the world a lot).

My gut feeling is that Chinese or Korean skaters are perhaps slightly less shy to go for music related to their cultures. Though the Yellow River Concerto is probably the big favourite for the Chinese and it is quite in the tradition of western art music... Yuna Kim went for HC Korean stuff after her OGM and every now and then you do get Korean girls doing something similar.

It would be cool to see skaters choose music from their own countries, in their own languages!

So far this seaons, it has been funny to see the return of Carmen and flamenco after a few low years...
E

 

[el henry]

I have a serious question:

Whenever I see "why don't skaters choose music from their own countries, in their own languages", it appears to be referenced by (East) Asian music.

Donovan Carrillo has selected music in Spanish every single year he has skated. Many of the years, the songs are by Mexican artists that I at least don't know.

Is it because Donovan is not as well known? He doesn't skate enough internationally? Is Spanish somehow less "cool" or do we feel too familiar with it? Are skating fans conflating tango with every single genre of music from Spanish speaking countries? Do they think that if they know "Cielito Lindo," they know Mexican music?

 

[moonvine]

Sorry to return to a slightly earlier tangent - Japanese skating community seems to be still very convinced that their own music will not be accepted. Looking at the program choises by top Japanese skaters in the 2000s certainly seems to verify this. In that sense, Hanyu's decision to use Seimei with the traditional flute at the start and end was unusual. I have always thought that beside those seconds with the flute, the rest is pretty normal movie music strongly in the western traditions, it could be music from a movie from almost any place in the world. However, I think Hanyu's example has not been followed, as they're still not choosing Japanese music, not even stuff like the big movie music hits (eg Joe Hisaishi who has been used by skaters from all over the world a lot).

My gut feeling is that Chinese or Korean skaters are perhaps slightly less shy to go for music related to their cultures. Though the Yellow River Concerto is probably the big favourite for the Chinese and it is quite in the tradition of western art music... Yuna Kim went for HC Korean stuff after her OGM and every now and then you do get Korean girls doing something similar.

It would be cool to see skaters choose music from their own countries, in their own languages!

So far this seaons, it has been funny to see the return of Carmen and flamenco after a few low years...
E

I would love to see skaters skate to music related to their cultures. I have always wondered why everything is in English and if the skaters understand the words (some are obviously fluent in English, others not so).
Of course, barring any Gracie skate, all of which are the best skates ever, this is one of the most epic woman's FS I have ever seen. I could watch her land that flip to "big fat fatty" every day.

Also, if I ever learn to skate, I am 100% skating to this.

 

[moonvine]

I have a serious question:

Whenever I see "why don't skaters choose music from their own countries, in their own languages", it appears to be referenced by (East) Asian music.

Donovan Carrillo has selected music in Spanish every single year he has skated. Many of the years, the songs are by Mexican artists that I at least don't know.

Is it because Donovan is not as well known? He doesn't skate enough internationally? Is Spanish somehow less "cool" or do we feel too familiar with it? Are skating fans conflating tango with every single genre of music from Spanish speaking countries? Do they think that if they know "Cielito Lindo," they know Mexican music?

These are very good questions.

 

[moonvine]

Excuse me?

Just so you can see this EPIC program, here you go!

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

Just so you can see this EPIC program, here you go!

Thank you so much for posting this! I was trying to find it last night and couldn't! And yes, it was fun and I kind of loved his choreo!

 

[synesthesia]

Japanese skaters choosing music of Japanese origin / by Japanese composers / songwriters is not that rare. A (non-comprehensive) list in chronological order – curiously there have been more male than female Japanese skaters to do so:

• 1987/88: Midori Ito, “Yotei no Matsuri” by Yasuhiro Sakurada
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pg8tLyMqTpA

• [1995: Yuka Sato, “Sozo” by Kitarō (Masanori Takahashi) (she competed professionally with it)
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Vn3xGq5jgA]

• 1999/2000: Takeshi Honda, “Kojiki” by Kitarō (Masanori Takahashi)
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=81egrF2YpTI

• 2001/02: Rie Arikawa & Kenji Miyamoto, “Kojiki/Orochi” by Kitarō (Masanori Takahashi) / „Sha Rion“ by Eri Kawai
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fno1beHHku4
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uTiqSK5sBWU

• 2003/04: Yamato Tamura, “Space Battleship Yamato“ by Hiroshi Miyagawa
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QGfSu1d8n7Q

• 2005/06: Nakako Tsuzuki & Kenji Miyamoto, „House of flying daggers*“ soundtrack by Shigeru Umebayashi
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AtvWfXExxhI

• 2005/06: Nobunari Oda, “Zatoichi” soundtrack by Keiichi Suzuki
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHHRdtNNzS8

• 2006/07: Daisuke Murakami, “The Vision of Escaflowne” soundtrack by Yoko Kanno
  
  
  
• 2008/09: Takahito Mura, “Kojiki” by Kitarō (Masanori Takahashi)
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iwgVt6hnw-0

• 2009/10: Cathy & Chris Reed, “Sakura” and “Lion” by Kodō
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dcN1Z81QJyQ

• 2009/10: Daisuke Takahashi, “Eye” by Coba (Yasuhiro Kobayashi)
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BAuNlFsrMT4

• 2010/11: Nobunari Oda, “Storm” by the Yoshida Brothers
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jyZ-4t3SqJY

• 2014/15/16: Yuma Kagiyama, “Zatoichi” soundtrack by Keiichi Suzuki
  
  
  
• 2015/16: Daisuke Murakami, “Anniversary (Theme for the Emperor of Japan)” by Yoshiki (Hayashi)
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jrO5p4Gyp2k

• 2015/16: Kazuki Tomono, “Japanese Doll“ by Mizuo Osawa and „Genkon” by Kaoru Wada
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I-yaB4C-Hg8
  [Great music choice and choreography incorporating kabuki movements!]

• 2015/16/17/18/20: Yuzuru Hanyu, “Seimei” soundtrack by Shigeru Umebayashi
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anl49G05148

• 2016/17: Yuzuru Hanyu, “Hope and Legacy” by Joe Hisaishi
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VY3IjHwFM54

• 2018/19: SotaYamamoto, “Nobunaga Concerto” by Masaru Yokoyama
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Jy_YFXCz-c

• 2018/19: Yuma Kagiyama, “Ryōmaden“ and “Kaikoku” soundtracks by Naoki Satō
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vj8bRZ1el_U

• 2020/21: Rika Hongo, “Reawakening” Ghost in the shell soundtrack by Kenji Kawai
  https://youtu.be/EdbOJtfCvX8?t=29

• 2020/21/22: Yuzuru Hanyu, “Ten to chi to” soundtrack by Isao Tomita
  https://youtu.be/pqzRpXGmM5U?t=462

• 2021/22: Kana Muramoto & Daisuke Takahashi, “Sōran Bushi” (Japanese traditional song) performed by Maïa Barouh
  https://youtu.be/WGJBQ3yDMLI?t=572

• 2021/22: Keiji Tanaka, “Shin Evangelion” soundtrack by Shirō Sagisu
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RanLJLEo3B0

• 2022/23: Rinka Watanabe, “Jin” soundtrack by Yu Takami, Seiko Nagaoka and Kan Sawada
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mwX0Ga4-jxc
  
  
  
• 2022/23: Nobunari Oda, “Princess Mononoke” soundtrack by Joe Hisaishi
  
  
  
• 2023/24: Kao Miura, “Attack on Titan” soundtrack by Hiroyuki Sawano and Kohta Yamamoto

I didn’t include any of the “Merry Christmas, Mr. Lawrence” (by Ryuichi Sakamoto) programs. There are way too many!



*Chinese movie