- Joined
- Apr 3, 2012
Good for them! ( and also good for me cause i won't need to hear Edvin Marton's music 
)
) oops, I misread as "Mishin won't..."
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David Wilson will work with Gachinski and Tuktamysheva
- Thread starter johnny 80
- Start date
People are too harsh towards Artur and Liza, IMO. Artur especially, the kid definately has his short-comings but he does rather well for himself. He's not a young new star maybe like Yuzuru but compare him to Adam (i.e. another kid who was promising), he's not worse medals-wise. And he had not the best season but nothing like Alissa's disaster (lol, and her choreo was not a masterpiece either, such an old princess-ly boring BS). It's a pity Artur's an only somewhat decent Russian male skater at the moment but that's not his fault.
It's not to hear that Mishin's trying out new choreographers though. I think he's really trying to find a new style for the young kids, he's still bend on the jumps but somewhat but he's entitled to his vision on the sport.
It's not to hear that Mishin's trying out new choreographers though. I think he's really trying to find a new style for the young kids, he's still bend on the jumps but somewhat but he's entitled to his vision on the sport.
- Joined
- Mar 23, 2010
Okay so David Wilson is doing programs for Patrick Chan, Hanyu and Artur next season? Who else?
That is pretty incredible and I can't help but wonder if there could be some potential conflict of interest? It would be interesting to see which out of the 3 programs ends up being the best. He might have to play this very carefully and not to have favourites (pretty impossible if you ask me) otherwise he might ends up on either Canada, Japan or Russia's black list next year.
I really look forward to see what he does for Liza, David is capable of producing great lyrical choreography, and Liza is one of the most musical young skaters today. Would it be another match made in heaven or mediocre hell?
That is pretty incredible and I can't help but wonder if there could be some potential conflict of interest? It would be interesting to see which out of the 3 programs ends up being the best. He might have to play this very carefully and not to have favourites (pretty impossible if you ask me) otherwise he might ends up on either Canada, Japan or Russia's black list next year.
I really look forward to see what he does for Liza, David is capable of producing great lyrical choreography, and Liza is one of the most musical young skaters today. Would it be another match made in heaven or mediocre hell?
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- Joined
- Nov 19, 2010
^^^^Where did you get the information that Wilson is doing Chan's choreography next season? Is this confirmed? I only know he did Mannish Boy for Chan's ex program.
Have there been cases of Lori Nichol's choreography being watered down? I know she works with the skater's current abilities and adjusts the program on an on-going basis if needed. She tells her clients to come back when they have actually acquired a new skill instead of putting in the element/steps in anticipation. It is indeed a collaborative effort with her. Some skaters, with their coaches, tend to simplify the choreography designed for them because they can't keep up with it and still do the jumps. IOW, the choreography is too difficult. In such cases, the choreographer has a responsibility in the subsequent result as well, either they were led to believe too much of the skater's abilities or they design more of their own program than what suits the client best.
Have there been cases of Lori Nichol's choreography being watered down? I know she works with the skater's current abilities and adjusts the program on an on-going basis if needed. She tells her clients to come back when they have actually acquired a new skill instead of putting in the element/steps in anticipation. It is indeed a collaborative effort with her. Some skaters, with their coaches, tend to simplify the choreography designed for them because they can't keep up with it and still do the jumps. IOW, the choreography is too difficult. In such cases, the choreographer has a responsibility in the subsequent result as well, either they were led to believe too much of the skater's abilities or they design more of their own program than what suits the client best.
- Joined
- Mar 23, 2010
Oh I thought Patrick have expressed he want try someone else other than Lori now? Especially now he seems to want to relocate back to Toronto for good having parted with his previous coach. Am I wrong? I assumed he'd goto Wilson since he is doing Mannish boy with already, you might as well get 2 - might be cheaper ;P Same with Buttle I guess?
Yeah choreography is a funny thing, as with anything that requires creativity, there's literally no guarantee if something will work even if you have the best talent and the most knowlegeable choreographer. The only thing that work is probably the scoring provided the skater hit the elements as prescribed. This should not be the sole objective of a successful program. Any number of things can go wrong, ie/ chemistry, the content, the conceptual framing, the musical qualities, xfactors (something beyond on paper), and critically the 'honesty' and the 'truth' fully realized by the performer etc. It is like sometime very expensive productions from Hollywood may have some of best people and special effects in the business, it can still feel kind of empty, dry and shallow. Devoid of spontaneity and surprise, especially when it is too carefully thought out to be 'suitable' for the skater, with in the 'limitation' of the skater based on tried and tested results.
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- Joined
- Nov 19, 2010
Too many assumptions which may just get spread as facts. Patrick is friends with various Canadian choreographers and it's good and natural he has them do his exhibition programs to showcase his versatility. Lori is said to be in conflict with a Team Chan member and a skater twitted a catty comment that she was "done with Patrick" but we fans have not heard official words about the state of Chan/Nichol relationship or who would choreograph Patrick's new programs. It's wait and see for now.
eta. I just checked Chan's ISU Bio and while Kathy Johnson is listed as his coach and Krall as a former coach, Lori Nichol is still listed as his choreographer.
The coach too is involved. S/he may have different ideas from the skater and/or the choreographer about the skills, the style, or the direction for the skater. If the coach does not believe the skater could, or should invest in developing skills to, execute the program well, the coach may prefer to drop certain parts. This tends to happen more with jump-centric skaters and coaches. OTOH, skaters are known to go back to Lori Nichol to fine tune specific segments of the program worth a couple of seconds and she takes on a coaching/trainer role working with the skater to get it just right for him or her. Not surprisingly, these tend to be the very elite skaters including World or even Olympic champions. There is a commitment from all involved. They don't buy a choreography like a blueprint.
Wilson is a world class choreographer and is likely to do well for these talented skaters. Evidently the Russian federation understands the benefits of going to the best for best results. So far Morozov seems to be the only Russian coach who has restricted his edification of foreign skaters contending for Sochi medals. Mishin never trains non Russians anyway, does he?
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- Joined
- Oct 22, 2005
Okay so David Wilson is doing programs for Patrick Chan, Hanyu and Artur next season? Who else?
That is pretty incredible and I can't help but wonder if there could be some potential conflict of interest? It would be interesting to see which out of the 3 programs ends up being the best. He might have to play this very carefully and not to have favourites (pretty impossible if you ask me) otherwise he might ends up on either Canada, Japan or Russia's black list next year.
If he does all three skaters' programs, I am guessing Hanyu's will be best because he will be able to work with him nearly every day.
- Joined
- Jun 3, 2008
If Wilson does a choreo for Liza like Yuna's James Bond Im all for it! 
I like his work with ladies best so I m not sure about Arthur there, with the exception of Daisuke, Kozuka and Abott that would skate anything great anyway, I cant recall much of his work with men. I know he has made a lot I just dont remember them. His work with Weir and Joubert I didnt like, I dont think it suited them.
I like his work with ladies best so I m not sure about Arthur there, with the exception of Daisuke, Kozuka and Abott that would skate anything great anyway, I cant recall much of his work with men. I know he has made a lot I just dont remember them. His work with Weir and Joubert I didnt like, I dont think it suited them.
- Joined
- Nov 14, 2007
If Wilson does a choreo for Liza like Yuna's James Bond Im all for it!
seniorita, David Wilson has done a lot of choreographies for Jeffrey Buttle's competitive programs over the years, which, I guess, may change your image on Mens programs by David. maybe?
I agree with you on "Daisuke, Takahiko and Jeremy could skate anything great anyway".:agree:
As for world's top chreographers such as Lori and David, while they professionally manage to cope with COP, they can do wonders with their creativity. You mentioning Weir and Joubert with David's works, Mirai with Lori's works comes to my mind. So yes, as others already indicated, it really depneds on its skaters and their coaches how their programs to come alive(, or make it look deadly boring
hwell.
- Joined
- Sep 10, 2009
Speaking about choreographers for Mishin's skaters
Plushenko gave an interview to championat.ru after the charity show in Moscow. There he talked about his work with Camerlengo.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=IL8nDhyr9V4
at 10:20:
-Journalist: Could you tell us about your work with Camerlengo?
-Evgeni: We have started to work on a new SP. Of course it's impossible to put a new program for two days. But the "skeleton" of the program is ready and more than a half of the program has been made. Pasquale will come to our training camp in Spain (in July-*let's talk) where we will continue our cooperation. We will be working together and I want him to make both of my programs for the next season- SP and LP. He is a great master in his field, a real specialist in choreography. I hope our work together will go on in the future too.
He also gave some comments about the WTT and the judging system in the light of that event:
at 7:30:
-Journalist: Talking about judging. Recently the judging system is a sore point in the world FS. Maybe it's time to change something about it? What do you think?
-I am an athlete. I can't change anything in the judging system. But I want to say that in principle the system was created well. The current FS is developing in spins, footworks, etc. But still the system seems uncompleted. During the last years every time they come with new changes, either in spins or footworks or others. The system has some good points that work well. But sometimes the system works just ugly. When a skater skates, makes 3 falls, gets the abnormal score and beats the guys who skated greatly with clean programs, it simply cannot be explained. It's just unbelievable. Maybe now, after the WTT, something will change. It seems that now judges see that FS community is angry and probably they are ready to change. We'll see.
The full interview has been published in Russian:
www.championat.com/other/article-121940-pljushhenko-sochi---dlja-menja-poslednij-start.html
Plushenko gave an interview to championat.ru after the charity show in Moscow. There he talked about his work with Camerlengo.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=IL8nDhyr9V4
at 10:20:
-Journalist: Could you tell us about your work with Camerlengo?
-Evgeni: We have started to work on a new SP. Of course it's impossible to put a new program for two days. But the "skeleton" of the program is ready and more than a half of the program has been made. Pasquale will come to our training camp in Spain (in July-*let's talk) where we will continue our cooperation. We will be working together and I want him to make both of my programs for the next season- SP and LP. He is a great master in his field, a real specialist in choreography. I hope our work together will go on in the future too.
He also gave some comments about the WTT and the judging system in the light of that event:
at 7:30:
-Journalist: Talking about judging. Recently the judging system is a sore point in the world FS. Maybe it's time to change something about it? What do you think?
-I am an athlete. I can't change anything in the judging system. But I want to say that in principle the system was created well. The current FS is developing in spins, footworks, etc. But still the system seems uncompleted. During the last years every time they come with new changes, either in spins or footworks or others. The system has some good points that work well. But sometimes the system works just ugly. When a skater skates, makes 3 falls, gets the abnormal score and beats the guys who skated greatly with clean programs, it simply cannot be explained. It's just unbelievable. Maybe now, after the WTT, something will change. It seems that now judges see that FS community is angry and probably they are ready to change. We'll see.
The full interview has been published in Russian:
www.championat.com/other/article-121940-pljushhenko-sochi---dlja-menja-poslednij-start.html
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Good interview but with some of the translation I read it is not clear what his plans are for 2013 worlds. It seems like he says people want to be done with him but then Voronov and Gachinski bomb at 2012 worlds and now they are like "save us!" and go to 2013 worlds!
