Didn't like Coronation Ace blades, not sure if because 7' rocker or short tails?

[khi]

EDIT: original post title was: "I didn't like Coronation Ace blades, but is it more likely that I didn't like the 7' rocker, or that I didn't like how short the tails are?" it got changed by the forum, I guess it was too long, here I am changing it again and adding the original for context

I already posted about boots here but I have a blade question too! And I do have an appointment with apparently a very reputable skate fitter, so I will be asking them this question too, but people here seem knowledgeable so just getting some extra opinions to think about.

From my other post: "I'm looking to return to casual figure skating (lessons etc) after a break of several years. I'm only working on basic footwork - edges, getting back all my 3 turns, stuff like that. Eventually hope to get back to learning basic jumps and spins but that's about the limit. 130lb."

In the past before taking a break, I briefly owned a pair of edea skates (which i hated) with the Coronation Ace blade (which i was super excited to skate on, but in the end, didn't like it either). The blade had a much shorter tail than my other blades, which are Jackson Mark V - not IV - I asked Jackson and they said these are a 8' skate which were replaced by the Aspire and then the Aspire XP. I found the CoroAce easier to learn to spin on, but I also found them rather unstable. It was hard to get my weight situated well on the blade, and I found the tails short and I found myself over-compensating by having my weight further forward and tripping on the toepicks. I know, I know, it's a skill issue, but I'm just a casual adult skater and I'd rather have an easier blade than a better blade

Anywho after I sold the edeas+CoroAce, i went back to my Mark V. I need new boots though and I suppose I should get new blades for them. I guess my options are:

go with a 8' blade similar to what i already have - Aspire XP
go with an intermediate 7' blade but with a longer tail - MK Pro
go with an intermediate 8' blade - Legacy 8 ?
?? other options ??

thanks !!

 

[khi]

An old photo of the CA vs my current blades. (not my current boots though) Both are 9"

 

[Diana Delafield]

I already posted about boots here but I have a blade question too! And I do have an appointment with apparently a very reputable skate fitter, so I will be asking them this question too, but people here seem knowledgeable so just getting some extra opinions to think about.

From my other post: "I'm looking to return to casual figure skating (lessons etc) after a break of several years. I'm only working on basic footwork - edges, getting back all my 3 turns, stuff like that. Eventually hope to get back to learning basic jumps and spins but that's about the limit. 130lb."

In the past before taking a break, I briefly owned a pair of edea skates (which i hated) with the Coronation Ace blade (which i was super excited to skate on, but in the end, didn't like it either). The blade had a much shorter tail than my other blades, which are Jackson Mark V - not IV - I asked Jackson and they said these are a 8' skate which were replaced by the Aspire and then the Aspire XP. I found the CoroAce easier to learn to spin on, but I also found them rather unstable. It was hard to get my weight situated well on the blade, and I found the tails short and I found myself over-compensating by having my weight further forward and tripping on the toepicks. I know, I know, it's a skill issue, but I'm just a casual adult skater and I'd rather have an easier blade than a better blade

Anywho after I sold the edeas+CoroAce, i went back to my Mark V. I need new boots though and I suppose I should get new blades for them. I guess my options are:

go with a 8' blade similar to what i already have - Aspire XP
go with an intermediate 7' blade but with a longer tail - MK Pro
go with an intermediate 8' blade - Legacy 8 ?
?? other options ??

thanks !!

The only comment I can contribute is that I've always used MK blades with 7' rockers, the Pro for many, many years up into senior competition, and now the Phantoms. The only time I experimented briefly with the Coronation Ace, I felt as if I had a section of train track attached to my boots. I don't know if it was the 8' rocker, or the weight, or the height...they just felt clunky, like there was too much blade getting between me and the ice. I'd recommend the MK Pro for you, but acknowledging that it's just personal preference. (I don't recommend the Phantom for a beginner-ish casual skater. It has a notoriously tricky toepick.)

Ask your fitter at your upcoming appointment. It's hard to get a feel for a blade off the ice, though, apart from perhaps a difference in weight, or tilt if new boots have a higher heel. Good luck!

[Edit: Now I can't remember what the other blade I tried once was, but it was something with an 8' rocker when I'd learned everything on the 7', that I do recall. The Ace has a 7' rocker. Sorry, senior moment there.]

 

[Query]

I can't really answer you. I'm not an expert. But:

BTW I think Jackson Mark V and Aspire XP blades are a fair bit different, in terms of the front of the blade - both the toepick position, and the curvature of the "spin rocker" section between the toepick and the main portion of the blade. From your picture, the main purpose of the Mark V is to make sure you don't accidentally touch your toepick. Which might be fine for a beginner.

Some people claim that the point at which the curvature of the blade changes, and the curvature of the spin rocker, are more important than the main curvature (7' vs 8' rocker radius) itself. In particular, AFAICT, both the Mark V and the Coronation Ace have a point of change fairly far back - maybe almost as far back as the ball of your foot. Whereas the MK Pro has it fairly far forwards. Some people would therefore say that the Coronation Ace blade would be easier to control for a low level skater, whereas the MK Pro requires more finesse. But we haven't seen you skate. That said, a fair number of advanced skaters do like the Coronation Ace. (Some companies claim it is the world's most popular figure skating blade.) But a fair number like MK Pro too.

My impression, from your pictures, is that the Mark V was designed as a beginner blade. You had to rock quite far forwards before the toepick would touch. That made it easy to avoid the toepick. But many beyond the "March & Glide" phase (and since you say you are working on 3-turns, you are beyond March & Glide phase) of figure skating work best if you can use the toepick without trying too hard.

I suspect Diana Delafield is a very experienced skater, who has the subtle control the blades she likes require. So for her, having to rock through that extra distance to the toepick (on the Coronation Ace, and probably even more if she used the Mark V) seems clumsy. Maybe that is what she was talking about when she said it was clumsy. Really good skaters often love blades best that let them do things with very subtle movements.

Have you spoken to your coach about blade choice? She/He/etc. might have opinions based on your skating level and how much control you have transitioning between different parts of your blade. Not all coaches know much about blades, but a lot of them do. If your coach isn't comfortable making a recommendation, could you ask your figure skating director?

Some good skate techs can do this too. If your skate tech hasn't seen you skate, and try to do the things you are trying to do, he might have trouble figuring out what to tell you to get. Could you present him with a video of you trying to do those things?

BTW, I'm not at all sure about the Aspire XP. I think it is meant to be a sort-of beginner blade, but not so much as the Mark V. But Jackson does put it on some boots that were designed for your mentioned skating level, but they are pretty low level. Also, they rust quite easily - I've been running into that problem myself on a pair I tried, even though I wiped them dry after use. Even if I remove the rust, sometimes it comes back during a single skating session. Also, looking at Aspire XP blades of the same size, they had very different shapes straight from the factory, sometimes even between the left and right blade of the same pair. I don't think Jackson/Ultima puts a lot of effort into making them consistent. However, they may be a fair bit cheaper than the other blades you mentioned. (My impressions of cost are based on living in the U.S. - maybe tariffs changes that?) Other people with more experience might disagree, but if you are paying for lessons, especially private lessons, the cost of lessons + ice time might more than justify getting better blades than Aspire XP in the long run. The way I see it, why pay for extra lesson time to compensate for dubious quality blades?

But maybe there are people here who like Aspire XP?

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

I already posted about boots here but I have a blade question too! And I do have an appointment with apparently a very reputable skate fitter, so I will be asking them this question too, but people here seem knowledgeable so just getting some extra opinions to think about.

From my other post: "I'm looking to return to casual figure skating (lessons etc) after a break of several years. I'm only working on basic footwork - edges, getting back all my 3 turns, stuff like that. Eventually hope to get back to learning basic jumps and spins but that's about the limit. 130lb."

In the past before taking a break, I briefly owned a pair of edea skates (which i hated) with the Coronation Ace blade (which i was super excited to skate on, but in the end, didn't like it either). The blade had a much shorter tail than my other blades, which are Jackson Mark V - not IV - I asked Jackson and they said these are a 8' skate which were replaced by the Aspire and then the Aspire XP. I found the CoroAce easier to learn to spin on, but I also found them rather unstable. It was hard to get my weight situated well on the blade, and I found the tails short and I found myself over-compensating by having my weight further forward and tripping on the toepicks. I know, I know, it's a skill issue, but I'm just a casual adult skater and I'd rather have an easier blade than a better blade

Anywho after I sold the edeas+CoroAce, i went back to my Mark V. I need new boots though and I suppose I should get new blades for them. I guess my options are:

go with a 8' blade similar to what i already have - Aspire XP
go with an intermediate 7' blade but with a longer tail - MK Pro
go with an intermediate 8' blade - Legacy 8 ?
?? other options ??

thanks !!

But Coronation Ace is a 7ft rocker.

 

[khi]

But Coronation Ace is a 7ft rocker.

The title of my post got changed somehow!! My original title was: "I didn't like Coronation Ace blades, but is it more likely that I didn't like the 7' rocker, or that I didn't like how short the tails are?"

It kinda changes the context of my post

 

[khi]

I can't really answer you. I'm not an expert. But:

BTW I think Jackson Mark V and Aspire XP blades are a fair bit different, in terms of the front of the blade - both the toepick position, and the curvature of the "spin rocker" section between the toepick and the main portion of the blade. From your picture, the main purpose of the Mark V is to make sure you don't accidentally touch your toepick. Which might be fine for a beginner.

Some people claim that the point at which the curvature of the blade changes, and the curvature of the spin rocker, are more important than the main curvature (7' vs 8' rocker radius) itself. In particular, AFAICT, both the Mark V and the Coronation Ace have a point of change fairly far back - maybe almost as far back as the ball of your foot. Whereas the MK Pro has it fairly far forwards. Some people would therefore say that the Coronation Ace blade would be easier to control for a low level skater, whereas the MK Pro requires more finesse. But we haven't seen you skate. That said, a fair number of advanced skaters do like the Coronation Ace. (Some companies claim it is the world's most popular figure skating blade.) But a fair number like MK Pro too.

My impression, from your pictures, is that the Mark V was designed as a beginner blade. You had to rock quite far forwards before the toepick would touch. That made it easy to avoid the toepick. But many beyond the "March & Glide" phase (and since you say you are working on 3-turns, you are beyond March & Glide phase) of figure skating work best if you can use the toepick without trying too hard.

I suspect Diana Delafield is a very experienced skater, who has the subtle control the blades she likes require. So for her, having to rock through that extra distance to the toepick (on the Coronation Ace, and probably even more if she used the Mark V) seems clumsy. Maybe that is what she was talking about when she said it was clumsy. Really good skaters often love blades best that let them do things with very subtle movements.

Have you spoken to your coach about blade choice? She/He/etc. might have opinions based on your skating level and how much control you have transitioning between different parts of your blade. Not all coaches know much about blades, but a lot of them do. If your coach isn't comfortable making a recommendation, could you ask your figure skating director?

Some good skate techs can do this too. If your skate tech hasn't seen you skate, and try to do the things you are trying to do, he might have trouble figuring out what to tell you to get. Could you present him with a video of you trying to do those things?

BTW, I'm not at all sure about the Aspire XP. I think it is meant to be a sort-of beginner blade, but not so much as the Mark V. But Jackson does put it on some boots that were designed for your mentioned skating level, but they are pretty low level. Also, they rust quite easily - I've been running into that problem myself on a pair I tried, even though I wiped them dry after use. Even if I remove the rust, sometimes it comes back during a single skating session. Also, looking at Aspire XP blades of the same size, they had very different shapes straight from the factory, sometimes even between the left and right blade of the same pair. I don't think Jackson/Ultima puts a lot of effort into making them consistent. However, they may be a fair bit cheaper than the other blades you mentioned. (My impressions of cost are based on living in the U.S. - maybe tariffs changes that?) Other people with more experience might disagree, but if you are paying for lessons, especially private lessons, the cost of lessons + ice time might more than justify getting better blades than Aspire XP in the long run. The way I see it, why pay for extra lesson time to compensate for dubious quality blades?

But maybe there are people here who like Aspire XP?

Thank you for all your thoughts! Interesting to hear the differences between Coro Ace and MK Pro, I normally just hear that they're basically interchangeable but some people prefer one over the other for ? reason. I'm in the process of sorting out lessons/coach again - I realised while skating again recently that I just really desperately needed new boots that were more appropriate to my level, so I figured I'd take a look at blades while I was at it. In the end, at my boot fitting appointment today, the fitter looked at my blade and said it would be okay for the sort of things I'm doing at the moment, and it fits on my new boots. For some reason I'd been thinking that I'd necessarily need a new blade for some new boots... but in fact no So I can push the decision about a new blade a bit further down the track. That makes sense to ask my coach (once I get a new one - I moved countries since I last skated regularly haha!!), someone who has actually seen me skate, and can provide an opinion, if they have an interest in blades.

Indeed it will probably be worth getting a better blade than the Aspire XP, when I do eventually replace my current Mark V (whether that be sooner or later)

 

[Diana Delafield]

But Coronation Ace is a 7ft rocker.

Right, and I do apologize again for my misleading typo when I said the Ace had an 8' rocker. The brain was not attached to the typing fingers at the time.

(I plan to quote the compliments re my abilities, as described above, the next time my coach gets on my case about footwork. She will undoubtedly point out that "he has never seen you skate, I have. Get back to work. I want to see clean lines on the ice, not little piles of shavings .)

 

[Query]

BTW, there are short tailed 7' and 8' rocker blades. There are long tailed 7' and 8' rocker blades.

The Coronation Ace blades you tried - were they new? New or not, most skate techs re-sharpen MK and JW blades, creating a significantly different shape. It is possible that badly sharpened blades (by a poor skate tech) could have a shape that caused you to rock to places you didn't want to be. For example, suppose that the center had a fairly abrupt change of shape. That could cause you to rock from there to either the back or the front of the skate. If you had blades that were badly sharpened, you might not have given Coronation Ace blades a fair trial.

I mention this because in the picture you show, the position of the tail of the Mark V and the Coronation Ace are not all that different relative to the stanchion positions. At least not different enough for me personally to have such strong feelings.

Some opinions about blade shapes, including Coronation Ace, are at

Choosing Figure Skating Blades

Content: Rocker Toe Pick Blade Styles Blade Profile Blade Recommendation This post will be all about blades for the freestyle figure skater. Rocker Rocker is named for the blade’s ability to …

scarletskater.wordpress.com

Another issue is that the two boots in your picture look to be rather different lengths, though I'm not sure of that because of the different heel heights. And the boot shapes, in terms of the part your foot rests on, look a lot different. It may be hard to figure out what is causing all the unhappiness generation if you change too many variables at once. Hopefully the expert fitter will put you in boots that work very well for you. Do you still have the Coronation Ace blades? If you could show them to the expert fitter, and he thinks that they were sharpened well, or are correctable, he might be able to have you try them on the new boots too. But you may need some experience with the new boots before being able to make good judgements about blades with them.

Since your skate tech did not tell you to change blades at the same time, he doesn't always tailor his advise for the purpose of maximizing profit, as some techs do. Perhaps that's a good sign?

Aside to Diana: I assume you chose your current coach because you like the way she coaches. Maybe you wouldn't want a coach who only said nice things about your skating, and didn't give you things to improve? I'm sure you know that sharper blades might create fewer shavings and cleaner lines, but perhaps you don't like ultra-sharp blades. I've noticed many skaters don't. They either want the skate tech to slightly dull the blades after sharpening (by running a flat abrasive stone against the edge, sometimes called deburring, though unless the tech uses a fine grain wheel, there may not actually be a sideways facing burr) or they do it themselves, one way or another. But, have you tried sharper blades? (I'm not just talking about radius of hollow - I'm mostly talking about that so-called deburring operation, which also rounds off the edge a bit - sometimes more important than ROH.)

I sometimes like very sharp edges, though it means I can't take even a single step off-ice onto a rubber mat without blade guards. So I've varied a little about this. Ultra sharp edges are great on very cold ice, or not-so-smooth ice where you need to cut through the bad stuff on top, or ice so warm you need to cut through the slush. But maybe proper weight/blade alignment is more important? I think one probably won't skid if the vector sum of your weight under gravity and centrifugal force aligns with the blade direction. But your coach can probably explain that better. And you probably already know it.

 

[tstop4me]

They either want the skate tech to slightly dull the blades after sharpening (by running a flat abrasive stone against the edge, sometimes called deburring, though unless the tech uses a fine grain wheel, there may not actually be a sideways facing burr) or they do it themselves, one way or another. But, have you tried sharper blades? (I'm not just talking about radius of hollow - I'm mostly talking about that so-called deburring operation, which also rounds off the edge a bit - sometimes more important than ROH.)

This is off topic. But I want to point out that dulling (rounding off) edges and deburring edges are not the same operation, they are separate and distinct operations. That is, if an edge has a burr to begin with (created, e.g., from sharpening or skating), and if you wish to remove the burr, the final edge can be duller or sharper than the initial edge, depending on the tool and technique used to remove the burr. Similarly, if an edge does not have a burr to begin with, you can manually touch up the edge, and the final edge can be duller or sharper than the initial edge, depending on the tool and technique used for touch up.

 

[khi]

BTW, there are short tailed 7' and 8' rocker blades. There are long tailed 7' and 8' rocker blades.

The Coronation Ace blades you tried - were they new? New or not, most skate techs re-sharpen MK and JW blades, creating a significantly different shape. It is possible that badly sharpened blades (by a poor skate tech) could have a shape that caused you to rock to places you didn't want to be. For example, suppose that the center had a fairly abrupt change of shape. That could cause you to rock from there to either the back or the front of the skate. If you had blades that were badly sharpened, you might not have given Coronation Ace blades a fair trial.

I mention this because in the picture you show, the position of the tail of the Mark V and the Coronation Ace are not all that different relative to the stanchion positions. At least not different enough for me personally to have such strong feelings.

Some opinions about blade shapes, including Coronation Ace, are at

Choosing Figure Skating Blades

Content: Rocker Toe Pick Blade Styles Blade Profile Blade Recommendation This post will be all about blades for the freestyle figure skater. Rocker Rocker is named for the blade’s ability to …

scarletskater.wordpress.com

Another issue is that the two boots in your picture look to be rather different lengths, though I'm not sure of that because of the different heel heights. And the boot shapes, in terms of the part your foot rests on, look a lot different. It may be hard to figure out what is causing all the unhappiness generation if you change too many variables at once. Hopefully the expert fitter will put you in boots that work very well for you. Do you still have the Coronation Ace blades? If you could show them to the expert fitter, and he thinks that they were sharpened well, or are correctable, he might be able to have you try them on the new boots too. But you may need some experience with the new boots before being able to make good judgements about blades with them.

Since your skate tech did not tell you to change blades at the same time, he doesn't always tailor his advise for the purpose of maximizing profit, as some techs do. Perhaps that's a good sign?

So, a more complete story: yes, brand new blades. I got brand new blades (Coronation Ace) and brand new boots (Edea Chorus) at the same time, and I didn't like either of them, for different reasons, and it's entirely possible that the boot issues were amplifying the blade problems. The boots had exactly zero lateral support and I could pretty much roll my ankle 90 degrees no matter how tight I tied them, and then the blade was very unstable fore-aft, so between those two problems it didn't feel like a great setup, though the boots were certainly worse. Eventually I got injured, partially because I was having such a miserable time with the fore-aft positioning, and then I sold the entire setup, so I no longer have either the boots or the blades. I have some confidence that the blades at least were sharpened well, because although at the time I lived in an area where it was a pretty miserable chore to get boots fitted, there was a decent blade sharpener that "everyone" decent at the rink went to, rather than use the rink pro shop for sharpening, and I had him mount and sharpen the blades. So it's possible he did a bad job but on the unlikely side, in my opinion.

Good observation, I did go from a too-long boot (old too-big Risport RF2 Super) to a correct length boot (Edeas)! Curiously enough the blade mount length was exactly the same between the blades though, and after that, I took the old blade on the too-big boots and had it mounted to a pair of boots that were the correct length (SP-Teri KT2), and I skated on that setup since, until now because those SP-Teris are really too stiff, so I'm in the process of getting new boots that aren't made of concrete! Having some trouble with the heel fit while skating as it turns out, but not very relevant to blades haha, I'm getting off topic.

And yeah, I know that one blade clearly has a longer tail than the other, but I agree, looking at the photos, the difference is probably a cm... not like an inch or anything. That's why in the end I'm not sure if it's the tail length or the blade radius or some other part of the blade profile (or maybe I simply had horrible fore-aft balance in edeas?? that never actually occurred to me) that was causing me unhappiness

 

[Query]

Yes, one blade has a slightly longer tail. Then again, since the boot was too big for you, maybe that blade is a little too longer than most people your size would use too - I'm not familiar with the sizing of that blade.

I remember reading at the Edea site that they didn't believe much angle support was needed - I think they said most of the support should be at the tongue and heel.

Regardless, if the boot was too big for you, that could only have made the loose support issue worse. I'm glad you found boots that work better for you.

I personally like firm ankle support. Sounds like you do too. Perhaps it takes a lot of physical training of the ankles to make do with less ankle support. Though some would say there is such a thing as too much support.

It's a shame there isn't a cheap way for you to experiment with different blades. That is an issue a lot of us have in common.

 

[khi]

Yes, one blade has a slightly longer tail. Then again, since the boot was too big for you, maybe that blade is a little too longer than most people your size would use too - I'm not familiar with the sizing of that blade.

I remember reading at the Edea site that they didn't believe much angle support was needed - I think they said most of the support should be at the tongue and heel.

Regardless, if the boot was too big for you, that could only have made the loose support issue worse. I'm glad you found boots that work better for you.

I personally like firm ankle support. Sounds like you do too. Perhaps it takes a lot of physical training of the ankles to make do with less ankle support. Though some would say there is such a thing as too much support.

It's a shame there isn't a cheap way for you to experiment with different blades. That is an issue a lot of us have in common.

Oh yeah so the thing is that both blades were actually identical in terms of mount sizing - quite interesting! Both 9". So even though one had come into my possession mounted on a too-big boot (and who knows where it came from before it got put on that boot haha), they're actually completely comparable.

Yeah, I briefly bought into the Edea philosophy just cause the brand was so dang popular at the time (and seems it still is) but I'll leave the loose ankles for skaters who have mega strong ankles and no hypermobility The Edeas certainly couldn't have been any tighter around my feet, my toes barely fit at all before a heat mould, but the ankle was loose regardless, just the style! I'm sure the design suits some people, just not my thing! Too many past ankle injuries + mild hypermobility, I've done a lot of physio but I'm never going to have the strongest ankles of all time and it was honestly a little daft for me to think they'd work, I regret the purchase, but I just didn't realise. Oh well, all in the past now I definitely have a stronger idea of my preferences now!

Right! If only it was as easy to test out different blades as it is to test different skis! I enjoy skiing too, and occasionally brand reps would come and set up areas on the snow where you could go and just borrow a ski for a couple of runs. As easy as adjusting the binding to your boot size which takes 1 minute.