Discussion on Grand Prix Selection Process

[Sam-Skwantch]

Does anyone else feel the selection process with Fed's picking who skates at their events a little uncomfortable? Does it not have a 6.0 type of feel that ultimately creates favoritism even if just in appearance? Skate America had a lot of US podium finishers and I'm not interested in getting into judging disputes and performances (although I'm sure it's unavoidable for some) but is it not a scemerio that the US Fed set up to sort of hedge the odds. JGP is fun the way the Feds can shift and add skaters to different events and I much prefer it even though it too favors the federations playing with and making the best options available. Heck...sometimes events could even trade host picks if so inclined to benefit one discipline could they not?

I know we do a lot of reinventing the wheel type threads but I'm genuinely interested if people like this set up or if they think it's a bit unfair.

I'd love to see the rankings and even qualifying events determine not only who skates but where they skate and take the federations out of it. I know one of the first things I'll hear is that they want to market to the host country to get better attendance but I'm not sure how sporting of them that defense of the system actually is. Willing to be convinced...maybe

So what do ya think? Should skaters be assigned based on scores and previous placements and results from qualifying with maybe one host pick and can you imagine maybe even a sponsorship exemption or is this system the best option we have?

Thoughts?

 

[4everchan]

Does anyone else feel the selection process with Fed's picking who skates at their events a little uncomfortable? Does it not have a 6.0 type of feel that ultimately creates favoritism even if just in appearance? Skate America had a lot of US podium finishers and I'm not interested in getting into judging disputes and performances (although I'm sure it's unavoidable for some) but is it not a scemerio that the US Fed set up to sort of hedge the odds. JGP is fun the way the Feds can shift and add skaters to different events and I much prefer it even though it too favors the federations playing with and making the best options available. Heck...sometimes events could even trade host picks if so inclined to benefit one discipline could they not?

I know we do a lot of reinventing the wheel type threads but I'm genuinely interested if people like this set up or if they think it's a bit unfair.

I'd love to see the rankings and even qualifying events determine not only who skates but where they skate and take the federations out of it. I know one of the first things I'll here is that they want to market to the host country to get better attendance but I'm not sure how sporting of them that defense of the system actually is. Willing to be convinced...maybe

So what do ya think? Should skaters be assigned based on scores and previous placements and results from qualifying with maybe one host pick and can you imagine maybe even a sponsorship exemption or is this system the best option we have?

Thoughts?

ermmmm..well... I think we have to look at it from the responsibility point of view... the hosts have huge commitments in organizing these year after year... logistics and financial commitments... getting host picks is just a small perk.

Do I imagine other systems? There could be some tweaking in the rules to avoid having two seeded skaters from the same country (i.e Ashley and Gracie) at one event, but then again, you cannot blame Skate America for wanting both of them to compete at their event.

I also think that every year is just so different ... yes there is something to do with the "draws" but for instance this year, Virtue and Moir are returning, so are not seeded, Bobrova Soloviev are also not seeded but probably would have been if they had gone to worlds.... many pairs are injured/not doing GPs.... with two brand new unseeded Chinese pairs...guys like Jason Brown aren't seeded because they were injured the year before... and that's not even mentioning the last minute withdrawals that change also drastically a discipline.... so the fields from GP to GP can be very uneven.

I thought that USA had definitely brought their A team to Skate America. It can be a good strategy but at the same time, you know that if you have 2 strong men, 2 strong ladies, etc that one of them will get a lower placement and may not qualify for GPF...

So... all of this rambling to show that :

whatever rules would be in place, each event ends up having its own vibe and feel due to a lot of unseen circumstances anyways...so why change the rules when you cannot control how the event will go on... ?

 

[karne]

You can't predict how anyone's going to skate, either. Last year Brendan scored like 203 and finished 8th, beating the likes of Denis Ten and Florent Amodio. This year he scored 211, skated better, and finished last. No-one knows what's going to happen.

 

[YesWay]

I kind of like the current system... with the only concession to ranking being that last season's podium finishers at the final, do not face each other at the following season's GP's.

Because you never know what's going to happen. There are face-offs that may include or exclude key World's contenders and affect who makes it to the final. Skaters may have to really fight to overcome strong or "strategically chosen" lists of competitors... or they may get "lucky" and only face a comparitively "weak" field. Skaters can reach the final through consistency but sometimes also by sheer luck. There are always a few surprises in who makes it to the final (or doesn't)... some top-ranked skaters may not make it, which shakes up the podium. Etc etc.

I think it all adds interest and excitement. Otherwise, it would become just a "spread out" version of World's... and what would be the point of that?!

 

[Alex D]

Does anyone else feel the selection process with Fed's picking who skates at their events a little uncomfortable? Does it not have a 6.0 type of feel that ultimately creates favoritism even if just in appearance? Skate America had a lot of US podium finishers and I'm not interested in getting into judging disputes and performances (although I'm sure it's unavoidable for some) but is it not a scemerio that the US Fed set up to sort of hedge the odds. JGP is fun the way the Feds can shift and add skaters to different events and I much prefer it even though it too favors the federations playing with and making the best options available. Heck...sometimes events could even trade host picks if so inclined to benefit one discipline could they not?

I know we do a lot of reinventing the wheel type threads but I'm genuinely interested if people like this set up or if they think it's a bit unfair.

I'd love to see the rankings and even qualifying events determine not only who skates but where they skate and take the federations out of it. I know one of the first things I'll here is that they want to market to the host country to get better attendance but I'm not sure how sporting of them that defense of the system actually is. Willing to be convinced...maybe

So what do ya think? Should skaters be assigned based on scores and previous placements and results from qualifying with maybe one host pick and can you imagine maybe even a sponsorship exemption or is this system the best option we have?

Thoughts?

My personal opinion is, that home federations / hosts, want to fill the venue and sell the event to local TV stations and for this, they need skaters from home. Please don´t take this the wrong way now my fellow Americans, but without Mao I am afraid, the crowds would have always looked so spare as at Dance and Dance had the Shibs! The home support was not that big in numbers, but they made some good noise, especially one lady who kept screaming all the time.

In Germany we notice a similar trend, people are not coming to our events anymore, even with our top skaters and the US has even more top class skaters and yet, they can´t fill a venue like at Chicago, it´s sad.

So yes, the hosts need to be able to select their own, but I believe that we could do something about those mini fields. We had 8, 10, 10 and 11, which makes about 15 hours of competition in total and all of that for a whooping 400 bucks at the top seats? This is a lot of money and hotels at Chicago cost a lot and traveling in the US takes a lot of time and we did start on Friday, finished late on sunday - its a big commitment for fans.
Compare it to events in Europe - there you get 30 hours for 100 bucks, short travel times and cheap hotels - bar some countries of course especially France and Scandinavian territories. Don´t get me wrong, the OC is doing a fantastic job, I like the website - very professional, I like the fact you had TV there and that you treat journalists as guests, but with all that effort, it was still a very tiny crowd.

I am afraid that without Ashley & Co. even less would have come

They could go for a third starting group and do the whole event on weekend I think, it might help with the attendances and maybe the event´s could also go into "cheaper" towns, but this is really something only you locals can know, but Boston last year with 200+ a night, crazy...

On a final note, you can be happy with so much passionate people in your nation that support the sport, I only hear good about those from skaters and other members, great community you seem to have and a very professional approach to the sport and it´s marketing. It may be annoying to hear all the time that this and that sponsored the event, but it´s really important to motivate such companies and to get the TV involved is very good as well and I enjoyed that the local skaters had a chance to step on ice, really skilled people in your OC´s there.

 

[Princessroja]

My personal opinion is, that home federations / hosts, want to fill the venue and sell the event to local TV stations and for this, they need skaters from home. Please don´t take this the wrong way now my fellow Americans, but without Mao I am afraid, the crowds would have always looked so spare as at Dance and Dance had the Shibs! The home support was not that big in numbers, but they made some good noise, especially one lady who kept screaming all the time.

In Germany we notice a similar trend, people are not coming to our events anymore, even with our top skaters and the US has even more top class skaters and yet, they can´t fill a venue like at Chicago, it´s sad.

So yes, the hosts need to be able to select their own, but I believe that we could do something about those mini fields. We had 8, 10, 10 and 11, which makes about 15 hours of competition in total and all of that for a whooping 400 bucks at the top seats? This is a lot of money and hotels at Chicago cost a lot and traveling in the US takes a lot of time and we did start on Friday, finished late on sunday - its a big commitment for fans.
Compare it to events in Europe - there you get 30 hours for 100 bucks, short travel times and cheap hotels - bar some countries of course especially France and Scandinavian territories. Don´t get me wrong, the OC is doing a fantastic job, I like the website - very professional, I like the fact you had TV there and that you treat journalists as guests, but with all that effort, it was still a very tiny crowd.

I am afraid that without Ashley & Co. even less would have come

They could go for a third starting group and do the whole event on weekend I think, it might help with the attendances and maybe the event´s could also go into "cheaper" towns, but this is really something only you locals can know, but Boston last year with 200+ a night, crazy...

On a final note, you can be happy with so much passionate people in your nation that support the sport, I only hear good about those from skaters and other members, great community you seem to have and a very professional approach to the sport and it´s marketing. It may be annoying to hear all the time that this and that sponsored the event, but it´s really important to motivate such companies and to get the TV involved is very good as well and I enjoyed that the local skaters had a chance to step on ice, really skilled people in your OC´s there.

I really think the finances are a huge part of it. I looked into going to Skate America and by the time I included airfare and hotel and the tickets and the food, it would have been a good $1000. IF I had that money to spend on skating (which I don't, because I spent it all on worlds, lol) it wouldn't be on a measly GP event. I'd be going to worlds again. Now, my mom and I are planning on SA next year because we can split a hotel room and it's very near us, making transportation costs nil, but it takes a person with a lot of money to be willing to spend over $1,000 to see 8 or 10 skaters in each event. It's simply not worth it for me, or I'd guess most people. Skating is my hobby and I love it to pieces, but there's only so much of the family budget I can justify for a hobby.

 

[silverfoxes]

My personal opinion is, that home federations / hosts, want to fill the venue and sell the event to local TV stations and for this, they need skaters from home. Please don´t take this the wrong way now my fellow Americans, but without Mao I am afraid, the crowds would have always looked so spare as at Dance and Dance had the Shibs! The home support was not that big in numbers, but they made some good noise, especially one lady who kept screaming all the time.

There was a very healthy Japanese turnout thanks to Mao and Shoma. Without the Japanese fans, the crowd size would have been similar to a Junior Grand Prix, I think.

 

[chuckm]

The selection process isn't quite that simple. For each discipline, in addition to their Host Picks, Hosts HAVE to pick two from the top 6 at Worlds, two from 7-12 at Worlds, two from the top 24 on the Seasons Best list, top 24 on the World Standing list, etc. The hosts draw lots at each phase of selection for pick order, so the ones with the last draw get the skaters who are left, not the ones they'd prefer.

It's only when it comes to substitutes that hosts have more say as to who will replace a withdrawn skater. In some cases, transportation costs are a consideration, as the host is responsible for the costs of bringing the skater to and from the venue. Russia recently made replacements with skaters from ARM and LTU---they train in Russia. And sometimes, hosts pick replacements who will be less competitive with host skaters.

Replacements are supposed to be chosen from the top 10 on the Seasons Best list who do not already have two GP assignments. However, in some cases skaters on that list may not be eligible because a) there are already 3 skaters from their country at that host b) they are already at that host c) they have withdrawn from a previous assignment d) they have an assignment before or after at a host that is at a far distant location e) visa difficulties f) cost of transportation, etc.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

The selection process isn't quite that simple. For each discipline, in addition to their Host Picks, Hosts HAVE to pick two from the top 6 at Worlds, two from 7-12 at Worlds, two from the top 24 on the Seasons Best list, top 24 on the World Standing list, etc. The hosts draw lots at each phase of selection for pick order, so the ones with the last draw get the skaters who are left, not the ones they'd prefer.

Isn't even more specific that that? Like 1 for top 3, 1 from 4-6, etc.? It looks like Ashley, Evgenia and Anna have no overlapping events.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

Isn't even more specific that that? Like 1 for top 3, 1 from 4-6, etc.? It looks like Ashley, Evgenia and Anna have no overlapping events.

It's my understanding the top three at Worlds will not face each other in GP events and it's always like that per the selection process which seeds them and puts them in separate events.

 

[elle_e]

It's my understanding the top three at Worlds will not face each other in GP events and it's always like that per the selection process which seeds them and puts them in separate events.

Could someone (a lot more knowledgable than me) please explain how exactly skaters are seeded for the GP series. I know the mechanics of it but what determines which skater goes to which event?

 

[chuckm]

The top 3 seeds in each discipline (the World medalists) never meet each other in the GP.

Traditionally, the top seed (Fernandez) can designate his two preferred events, and this is usually honored by the hosts. However, because host picks come first in the selection process, this can limit choices: Japan picked Hanyu for NHK, and China picked Jin for CoC, so Fernandez could choose only from SA, SC, CoR and TDF. In turn, Hanyu could state a preference for one event from the two Fernandez didn't name, and Jin would by default get the other one. If the top 3 seeds didn't name any preferences, then the hosts for SA, SC, CoR and TDF would draw for selection order (JPN and CHN would already have their 1-3 seed).

In the scenario where no preferences were stated, the host (CoR) who has the first pick chooses Fernandez. The second host (SC) picks Hanyu, who then has two events (with host pick) and is no longer eligible to be picked. The third host (TDF) picks Fernandez, who then has two events and is no longer eligible to be picked. The last host gets Jin, who is the only remaining seed.

The 4-6 seeds are chosen by the hosts in the usual manner, after a draw for order of selection. Host picks may also be involved with these seeds (as well as with any of the other selection categories).