Do You Think Skaters Should be Able To Start Over???

[Dee4707]

Do You Think Skaters Should be Able To Start Over???

What are your thought on this subject? Dick Button seemed adamantly against the skaters being able to start again. I am undecided about how I feel about the subject. Dick's analogy was if a skier messes up, it's over for them. I am interested in what you think.

Dee

 

[Joesitz]

Re: Do You Think Skaters Should be Able To Start Over???

If something happens on the ice that is not the fault of the skater - Yes, e.g. a teddy bear not picked up.

If the skater's equipment (laces, blades, boots, etc.) are not in order then too bad. When a skier has his problems because of equipment, he can't start over. Why should a skater?

Joe

 

[SteveKmetko374]

Re: Do You Think Skaters Should be Able To Start Over???

I agree, that if is is something being thrown on the ice or flower petals on the ice, fine. But if equipment fails or if a skater skates into the boards, although it would be sad, they should have to continue skating or forfeit.

 

[CB1AB2]

Re: Do You Think Skaters Should be Able To Start Over???

I agree with what the posters before me said

cb

 

[icenut84]

Re: Do You Think Skaters Should be Able To Start Over???

One example to take into account when debating this is when it happened to Tonya Harding at the 94 Olympics. She restarted her LP after problems with her skate, which you could say is fair enough if something she couldn't control was wrong (her lace problem). But as a result of this, not only did she land the jump she missed in the reskate (some of her competitors could have said that was unfair, if she messed up the first time she shouldn't get a chance to redo it, nobody else does, etc), but Josee Chouinard had to skate before she was ready to, so it affected more people than just the skater with the problem. Interesting debate. I also saw a pro competition where Todd Eldredge and Alexei Yagudin were skating. Todd was first, and about halfway through he went for a triple lutz, fell hard, and broke his cufflink on his shirt. He picked it up (it would have been dangerous to carry on with it on the ice), took it over to the referee and got a new one (IIRC), and was allowed to restart his programme from just before the jump. The second time, he landed it. Was that fair on the other competitors, that Todd got the chance to redo something in his programme that he made a mistake on the first time? (The same jump in the same part of the programme, not a repeat attempt later on).

 

[megsk8z]

Re: Do You Think Skaters Should be Able To Start Over???

I think the "one-shot" approach is a good one and it's fair to everyone.
Having to skate a program one time and one time only is part of the charm/horror that skating competitively brings us.
There was a local competition I went to some years ago and there was a very nervous young man skating. He actually threw up while skating (but in time to the music) and did manage to finish his program. If the little kids know that it's a one shot deal, why not the elite skaters, too?

 

[Princess Leppard 625]

Re: Do You Think Skaters Should be Able To Start Over???

<span style="colorurple;font-family:georgia;font-size:x-small;">My only problem with skaters not being able to restart is that Matt Savoie could have hurt himself if he hadn't stopped. Now, if y'all are changing the rules to say that an equipment failure is just too darn bad, he probably would've kept skating, at risk to himself, rather than forfeit.

So I say, leave the rule as it is.

But I think if you've missed a jump, you should restart AFTER the jump....

Laura </span>

 

[LADSKATER]

Re: Do You Think Skaters Should be Able To Start Over???

I think it depends on the circumstances; sometimes the wrong music is played or a skater misses his or her que. If a skater is at risk of injuring themselves then I think they should be forced to forfeit.

Kris and Kritsy Wirtz had to pull out at the last minute at Canadians because Kris had an old injury (his shoulder) that flared up during warm up. Everyone was gravely disappointed - including them - but he would have not been able to perform the lifts.

I think skaters like Tonya Harding (with the broken skate lace routine) should be yanked off the ice. That was ridiculous.


Ladskater

 

[heyang]

Re: Do You Think Skaters Should be Able To Start Over???

I think I"m with the majority thinking that the skater should not be able to re-start from the beginning.

In regards to Matt Savoie, the program definitely had to come to a halt. He could've been seriously injured if his blade had landed on that strap coming out of a jump. If his strap had not broken, there was no reason for him to stop his program.

As for Weir, my initial instinct says that he should have continued immediately after the 1st fall. He should not have been able to re-start - there was no equipment failure. Withdrawing after the 2nd fall was obviously the correct thing to do since only he knew the pain.

Tonya's lace at Oly's. It was an equipment failure that put her at risk on the jumps. I do think that she should've realized that the lace was frayed and replaced it before starting her program, but I'll give her the benefit of the doubt and say that she hoped it would hold together. It was unfortunate for Josee - I'm not sure if her nerves would've held up , regardless. Was Josee given the option of waiting for Tonya to fix her skate and for Tonya to skate? Given her nerve problems, she may have opted for 'getting it over with' instead of prolonging the agony.

Did Weir's withdrawl psyche out Savoie - it shortened his anticipated start time for sure.

 

[mike79]

Re: Do You Think Skaters Should be Able To Start Over???

ITA about the whole Tonya/Josee thing. Josee really got the short end of the stick there.

 

[SteveKmetko374]

Re: Do You Think Skaters Should be Able To Start Over???

Per Matt SAvoie: the referee should have stopped the music immediately after his pant was ripped -- this happend when he bumped into the boards -- he went on skating for quite awhile, did several dangerous moves, considering the condition of his pants, before he was stopped by the referee right at the end of his program.

I guess the ref wasn't paying attention -- when matt wsa finally stopped he only had a few spins left in his program - no major elements and he was forced to re-skate 2 jumps that he had already landed. Frankly, it was not handled well. But this problem was not caused really by faulty equipment, it was caused because he banged into the boards and broke his equipment during his program. At any rate, the referee should have stopped him immediately to fix the pants or disqualify him. There should be a clear rule in any case.

 

[Dee4707]

Re: Do You Think Skaters Should be Able To Start Over???

SteveKmetko374, I think the referee did blow the whistle prior to when Matt heard it. I think with the music and all--Matt didn't hear it the first time. Anyhow, Matt did cut the strap when he bumped into the board, so what do you do. There are so many ifs/ands/or buts to the rule or how it is applied. I think that's what Mr. Button was grumbling about--the skaters should be allowed a one time shot. You either go on and skate or forfeit. I don't think that Matt's deal fell under equipment failure--because Matt caused it. And as you say Steve, should he have had to complete a couple of jumps because of this. But then I look at the situation where Matt could have hurt himself if the referee didn't stop him. Look at John Baldwin's partner who crashed into the boards and kept on skating. She had to have 5-6 stitches in here knee. She finished the skate, probably didn't even realize how hurt she was.

Dee

 

[SteveKmetko374]

Re: Do You Think Skaters Should be Able To Start Over???

Oh -perhaps they should give the referee the ability to stop the music in such a case if Matt didn't hear the whistle. As Mr. Button said, there should be a clear rule. Either the ref can stop your music and allow you to start where you stopped or the ref can stop your music and disqualify you because it is too dangerous to continue. Hopefully the USFSA will address this issue before next season.

I also think if something happens like the Tonya lace issue and the Johnny Weir injury - the next skater should not be hustled out onto the ice like cattle and should be give ample time to prepare themselves.

 

[icenut84]

Re: Do You Think Skaters Should be Able To Start Over???

<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>It was unfortunate for Josee - I'm not sure if her nerves would've held up , regardless. Was Josee given the option of waiting for Tonya to fix her skate and for Tonya to skate? Given her nerve problems, she may have opted for 'getting it over with' instead of prolonging the agony.[/quote]

When Tonya started again, she skated last in the group IIRC, whereas she had initially been first (?). I don't think she was going to start again straight away after the first time. Josee had to go onto the ice pretty much straight away I think, and she looked really really nervous. She had been thinking she had something like 5 minutes before she even had to be on the ice and suddenly she didn't, that's enough to throw anyone off guard when you're trying to prepare yourself for something like that.

 

[Jill127]

Re: Do You Think Skaters Should be Able To Start Over???

In the case of Matt Savoy, I feel he could've gotten hurt, so I would permit him to restart at that point. As far as Johnny Weir, he wimped out and I have no time for that.

As far as Tonya and her boot lace, that was negligence on HER part, not an accident. I think if it was any other skater they would've been disqualified. Probably everyone was afraid she'd sic her lawyers on the whole judging panel, the other competitors, the concession stand workers, the USOC, USFSA, ISU, etc,etc.

Does anyone remember when Kovarikova/Novotny tripped on the string of lights around the rink at one of the Pro competitions? It was rather dangerous as the lights were glass and were all over the bloddy ice. It should've been stopped. Like everything that has to do with Figure Skating, it just depends on the mood of the powers that be....

 

[heyang]

Re: Do You Think Skaters Should be Able To Start Over???

If I recall correctly, Korakova and Novotny took out that string of lights during World Pro champs - that rink is smaller. Nonetheless, they were skating too close to the boards and she caught her skate on the lights.

They were not having a good performance. The judges (or rules) allowed them to start over from the beginning. During the re-do, they skated clean and won the competition.

Not real fair since the fault was their own.

 

[Lady Lutz]

Re: Do You Think Skaters Should be Able To Start Over???

I'm in the majority with a situation like Matt Savoie's--he could have seriously hurt himself. They should have let him start after the Lutz jump, because he missed it the second time around.

Don't forget about Tonya's costume problem when her strap came undone at Skate America, was it? Again she stopped and skated to the referee, and was able to start over from that point. Contrast that with poor Melissa Gregory and her costume problem at this year's Nationals. I give her and her hubby credit for continuing their free dance without stopping, even though her bare booby was hanging out. Guess she felt it was her fault for a dress that wasn't properly designed. I wonder if something like THAT, the whistle should have been blown....what would that have been, for Indecent Exposure???:lol:

At the Olympics, Harding had no excuse--she forgot to bring extra laces that were long enough. So when her lace broke, she didn't have one in reserve, and that her fault. Perhaps she got a break from the referee as a "Thank You" for all the attention and ratings she brought to the Olympics because of the Nancy Knee Whack Incident.

Heyang, I have the Novotny program on tape where they tripped on the lights, and I have to agree with you on that. Apparently the judges wanted them to win no matter what.