Doesn't allowing people to compete lower than their test level defeat the point of the excel track?

[Arwen17]

Now having seen the data here: https://www.goldenskate.com/forum/threads/data-analysis-view-my-sheet-on-the-test-failure-rates-of-mif-fs-and-ice-dance-for-standard-and-adult-tests.94600/

I was thinking about how they're considering letting kids do higher level FS tests, but let them compete in whatever level they want. While this is good for skaters who are just trying to get their tests finished (Novice thru Senior tests) before they age out of Intermediate and go off to college, I feel like it defeats the purpose of the excel track.

For example, our rink isn't competitive at all, but everyone skates the competitive track because excel track gets treated like a dirty word essentially. Everyone likes to be able to call themselves a "competitive" figure skater, even if that means they're literally still skating in no test, pre-pre, or prelim because they only have an axel and maybe one double. There's always a couple skaters in pre-juve and juve if they have more doubles, but Intermediate and Novice is rare and never someone with any triples or double axel anyway, so they're not a "competitive" Intermediate or Novice. Nobody ever tests Junior or Senior FS unless they're ready to quit skating and go coach etc.

While I think letting skaters test Novice, Junior, and Senior FS makes sense (because that's usually skaters just trying to finish their tests before they age out), I don't know that that makes sense for the lower FS levels. It feels like it's going to defeat the purpose of the excel track.

Even though nobody likes to use the excel track, the point of it was to have competition levels that better align with the test levels. The point of it was to let skaters test higher and still be in a reasonable competition. But instead, most of them stay in the competitive pipeline because they see "excel" as a dirty word and just stay in no test, pre-pre, or prelim etc all their lives.

I guess if they're going to allow skaters to test higher but compete lower, then the excel track is just redundant and it may disappear completely.

Thoughts?

 

[mskater93]

I don't know that the Excel Track would disappear entirely but may just mutate if people are allowed to skate down

 

[iceskating21]

What I saw is almost the same. When I knew Excel series, I was pretty happy and thought it's something very reasonable. However, in my uncompetitive rink, people seem to look down on it. No one think it is "real" competition. Most skaters only go to Excel events when they use it as a test. There was one girl entering national excel final last year. The club even didn't advertise it as what they normally do for regional competitors. My club even seldom has anyone entering sectional, probably once in a couple of years. I feel that's hard to understand. When the requirements align with testing, you need to do all elements perfect in order to win. That's not easy either.

My skater had been in Intermediate forever and finally tested her Novice FS. It's not because she can't. It's because she is not competitive at Novice level. My skater did have difficulty with triples, especially after her puberty. Later, we started to realize that no matter how hard she works, she probably cannot be good enough to win significant medal at high levels, not to mention there is not much time left for high schooler. I can see many skaters in the similar situation. After all, being competitive needs talent besides hard work. I do think Excel is a good chance. They can still compete and see the reward from their hard work.

Well, I don't think Excel series will be abandoned if skaters can compete low. But it is true that many more skaters will choose to test up. On the other hand, I don't think allowing competing low is fair. Splitting into two competition systems make sense to me. People need to look at skaters in different ways and understand that people can choose different track and pursue different goals.

 

[mskater93]

What I saw is almost the same. When I knew Excel series, I was pretty happy and thought it's something very reasonable. However, in my uncompetitive rink, people seem to look down on it. No one think it is "real" competition. Most skaters only go to Excel events when they use it as a test. There was one girl entering national excel final last year. The club even didn't advertise it as what they normally do for regional competitors. My club even seldom has anyone entering sectional, probably once in a couple of years. I feel that's hard to understand. When the requirements align with testing, you need to do all elements perfect in order to win. That's not easy either.

My skater had been in Intermediate forever and finally tested her Novice FS. It's not because she can't. It's because she is not competitive at Novice level. My skater did have difficulty with triples, especially after her puberty. Later, we started to realize that no matter how hard she works, she probably cannot be good enough to win significant medal at high levels, not to mention there is not much time left for high schooler. I can see many skaters in the similar situation. After all, being competitive needs talent besides hard work. I do think Excel is a good chance. They can still compete and see the reward from their hard work.

Well, I don't think Excel series will be abandoned if skaters can compete low. But it is true that many more skaters will choose to test up. On the other hand, I don't think allowing competing low is fair. Splitting into two competition systems make sense to me. People need to look at skaters in different ways and understand that people can choose different track and pursue different goals.

This is exactly the case that not everyone will be successful at the highest levels, but for some reason, people think Excel (old Test Track) is less than Standard Track in the same way that for a long time, people thought Adult Track was less than (and some skaters still look down on Adult Track skaters). Excel is fairly new (Excel/TT has been a competitive stream for what? 10 years), and it takes the PTB time to accept things as "normal" especially in this sport which is glacial in its changes.

 

[Arwen17]

and some skaters still look down on Adult Track skaters

Oh this is definitely still going on. But I do see Adult track get used more than Excel track anyway. Mainly because the people who choose adult track do so because they feel like they don't have enough TIME to pass in standard track. I've seen several people who could have passed standard track, but were running out of time because of life circumstances and wanted to get their Novice/Junior/Senior MIF/FS tests over NOW, so they tested under the "easier" adult track just to get it done as quickly as possible. They tested standard track as kids until that moment.

I do adult track for the same time reason. Even though I always planned to go all the way to Senior and not stop at Adult Gold, I'm not getting any younger. It's going to take years and years to pass all of the tests, so anything that lets me pass quicker is good. Standard tests are harder and take longer to pass. I don't have the time. I started at age 26 and I'm age 32 now. I've got to get it done before what youth I do have left runs out. (I'm working on Novice MIF and intermediate FS currently)

Kids don't feel that time pressure so severely like adults and they have to test standard track anyway, so most don't like the Excel pipeline and stay in the normal competitive pipeline. It isn't until they're about to graduate high school that some of them will be like "oh sht!" and finally move up in test levels. It's like they live under a fantasy that they still have plenty of time to complete everything until the last year.

 

[Vicki7]

I do adult track for the same time reason. Even though I always planned to go all the way to Senior and not stop at Adult Gold, I'm not getting any younger. It's going to take years and years to pass all of the tests, so anything that lets me pass quicker is good. Standard tests are harder and take longer to pass. I don't have the time. I started at age 26 and I'm age 32 now. I've got to get it done before what youth I do have left runs out. (I'm working on Novice MIF and intermediate FS currently)

This is interesting to me - I started skating at 23 and am now 33 - I've not tested yet and I'm only just starting loop. There have been some breaks in my skating, but I don't feel like I'm running out of time. I'm never going to get a full set of doubles, but still think I have plenty of youth left in me to achieve what I want in the sport. Age is just a number, and although it does limit what we can do in terms of jumps and spins, I wouldn't say MITF would be affected by that.

We don't have an adult track in the UK, so I'll be taking the same tests as the kids, whether I like it or not. We also don't have anything equivalent to the Excel track that I'm aware of, but adults can choose to compete in adult events, or with the younger skaters in order to obtain a test pass. In adult competitions, you enter on an honour system, and I see that abused a lot. I've also heard it's the same, if not worse for our younger skaters, although apparently changes have come in to make this more difficult, and force people to skate at their correct level (apart from adult events - we get left to our own devices).

 

[christy]

Living in Canada I don't know much about the different tracks, but do feel that offering adults the opportunity to test at a different level is a real positive because it recognizes that adult skaters are different to child skaters. We do however, like the UK and ISU, allow skaters to compete at the level they feel comfortable instead of their test level assuming that people will be fair but sadly that is often abused.

 

[Arwen17]

Age is just a number, and although it does limit what we can do in terms of jumps and spins, I wouldn't say MITF would be affected by that.

I agree age won't limit your ability to pass MIF, BUT if you spend a lot of time on MIF because you're being graded at the harder kid standard, that means you have less time left over to work on the jumps before you get too old to do them. I need to get MIF out of the way so I can maximize the time spent on jumps. In the USA system, you must pass MIF test before you can pass the equivalent FS test level. Plus, nobody likes to see someone who can only jump and has no skating skills. So you can't just tell someone "well if you don't have enough time for MIF, just forget the tests and work on jumps!"

While I think it is important you have to pass MIF first before the FS (to encourage people to improve their skating skills. Similar to encourging people to eat their veggies before dessert.), I don't want to get so stuck on MIF that it soaks up a ton of years that could have been spent on the jumps. I do want to get double jumps before I get too old to do them. Hell, I'd go for triple jumps if that were likely, but it isn't.
I've looked closely at the US Nationals and Sectional events and there are adults in their 30s, 40s, 50s jumping doubles. It starts to peter out in the 50s age range. So I know if I can get these jumps before 50, I have a chance.
As for singles, there is no age limit. Even some people in their 60s and 70s were still doing singles.

Age is also why I'm not that focused on dance tests. They are lowest priority because I know dance tests are something I can pass in my old age and they aren't required to pass before the FS tests. So MIF tests are urgent, to get it out of the way so I can focus on FS elements before I get too old. And then once I am too old (or just bored or whatever), I can add extra stuff like dance tests.

I feel bad about missing out on stuff like Pairs elements and synchro, but I would have to move to a rink that has coaches and teams on hand for stuff like that. Most rinks just don't have it. Maybe one day....

P.S. I just passed Adult Gold recently. They were nice enough to wink at my under-rotated axel. I had all of my single jumps (except axel) within the first year of skating. But once I hit axel I've been stuck on it for years now. I've worked on trying to double my single jumps, but it's a long, slow process because I'm better at MIF and spins than I am at rotating quickly in the air.