don't retire now

[Eeyora]

I don't want Michelle Kwan my favorite skater of all time to retire. However I think it is time for another rebirth or stage of her eligible career. I think she needs to kick it up a notch technically, add more difficulty,and keep the same emotional drama with the audience.

Sorry I did not mean to start another subject I meant for this to be posted under the subject "Kwan ain't going anywhere"

 

[jesslily]

It's great to start a new thread. People can specifically focus"Michelle should't retire now. Why?

She is not the oldest lady competitior at Worlds. Quite a few are a lot older than her. Arakawa is about same age as Michelle, why should Michelle retire?

She is not the only "rich" eligible lady skater. There are a few lady skaters making quite a bit money out there.

Michelle did not really start the training early last year. After COI tour she did some promotion tour, and did not start serious training till August. If she considers 2006, she should focus technique after the COI tour is finished, and attends at lease two grand prix events(The number does not include the grand prix final.)

Michelle should and can add some 3/3s to her program.

Please don't let Nicolai do the program again. And find a peace of music nobody has used.

 

[JonnyCoop]

I'd like to see Michelle re-hire Lori Nichol as her choregrapher; the combination of Nichol's choregraphy and Michelle's ability to interpret it made for some marvelous skating. Though I do think her "Feeling Begins" SP from this year (and I believe last year as well) is one of her best, I think her free programs have lost something; "Scheherezade" especially was for me a major disappointment; I thought that would be a can't miss combination of skater and music.

However, I do realize that since Lori Nichol has a close working relationship with Frank Carroll, I can understand Michelle not going that route. Since we do not know the particulars of the Kwan-Carroll split, there is a possibility that this would cause some sort of animosity among the 3 parties potentially involved.

Getting more or less to the subject of the post -- I don't think Michelle should retire yet either. At the very least, she's 1 away from the Worlds record; why not go for it? I just wish she'd stop with the back-and-forth in regards to the next Olympics. Every time she is asked if she's going for Turin (which I am sure is a question she is getting EXTREMELY TIRED of having to answer every 20 minutes), it seems to be a different answer than the one before. Yes. No. Maybe. Yes. Maybe. No. After Nationals, it was pretty much yes, now it's back to maybe again. They may as well just stop asking her the question and publish the reply as the total oppisite of whatever she said last time.

What I would like to see happen is Michelle going to Turin and HAVING A GOOD TIME. She didn't really soak in, IMO, too much of a "true Olympic experience" at either SLC or Nagano; she kind of went into isolation/sequestered mode and it didn't help her skating either time. I think she should go for it just to go and have a good time and really enjoy her last Olympics (because let's face it, she's NOT going to do 2010) on the simply "being there" level and even if she were to end up finishing 6th or something, who cares?? At least she'd have had the good time.

 

[soogar]

She's probably not sure herself as to whether she will try for Turin. I think this was a tough Worlds for her, especially with so many skaters doing more difficult elements and the tide is starting to turn. She isn't the favorite skater of the judges anymore and now it's going to be an uphill battle for her to get the technical elements, compete in more events etc. So many people are talking about her in terms of age. I don't see it as an age thing at all. I see it more as a she's been competing at this level for 11 years does she really want to continue level. Yeah Arakawa is the same age as Kwan, however Arakawa hasn't been consistently at the top like MK either. She's just starting to come into her own as a skater , as is Sasha.

I think that worlds is going to get harder for MK in the next two years. I keep bringing up Todd Eldredge but I see so many similarities between their careers. In 1997, Todd was a gold medal contender in Worlds then finished second. In 1998 he skated clean programs and was judged 3rd man in Grand Prix. At that point, Todd wasn't a favored man with the judges anymore but rather the judges would save the marks for other clean performances. I see this trend with MK. Judges are human too and want to see variety in the sport. It's also not healthy for the sport to constantly hold up one person. The other skaters *have* caught up and the judges are going to make room at the top for them.

Maybe I'll be flamed, but I don't see MK on the podium for Turin if she does not make technical improvements in her skating and I'm not sure if she has the drive to do them. She's been competing for 10 years and hasn't focused on jumps since she was 16 years old. Now with more wear and tear on her body, I can't see her getting excited about adding another triple-triple combo to her repertoire. Watching her at Worlds, MK wants to win. She doesn't want to go to the Olympics just to skate: she wants GOLD. I think that if she would have a hard time motivating herself to train so hard just for another Olympic experience.

While I don't care one way or the other whether MK retires, I don't think that retirement will be the end of MK. She might find new avenues of expression in the pro ranks and grow even more as a skater without worrying about jumps. Kristi did many wonderful programs as a pro skater and Surya skated better in pros than she ever had as an amateur. I think MK is stale b/c she's always doing the same thing. Pros would be good for her b/c she can experiment with new programs and music and grow as a skater.

 

[sk8ing_lady2001]

Simply put, I hope that Michelle remains free of injuries and stays in figure skating at least until Torino. I even expressed my sentiments regarding the situation at MKW.

 

[yelyoh]

I doubt that Michelle will retire anytime soon. She has JUST switched to a new coach and I think she switched to him because she was convinced he could bring her to a new level. The Eurosport commentators spoke about her improving jumps, speed, spins. I think Michelle likes a challenge and that is why she came back strong in the LP. I think she is taking care of her body but will include a 3/3 combo next year.

 

[mzheng]

Michelle did not really start the training early last year. After COI tour she did some promotion tour, and did not start serious training till August.

Actually with her boot problem I would say she start serious trainning at Nov, when she hired RA as her coach. But once she started she is the most focused one. If she wants to compete at that level and get her consistancy of 3/3 down, she has to start earlier. But again that's the test of her body, as she said in her intervew, if her body can sustain. As a fan I'm going to just cherish every performance she has yet to deliver.

 

[sarahmistral]

As much as Michelle insists that she enjoys competing, I think that remaining at the "top of the world" level has to be draining and even she admitted that it's impossible to maintain (in her interview about being at a peak at Nats and having had to come down from that because she couldn't stay up there right through Worlds but had to wind down in order to then prepare to peak again...).

All this has GOT to get tiresome, and I think she should go with what makes her happiest, be it practicing 3/3s in isolation at Lake Arrowhead or making fans of people who enjoyed some (though not all) of her eligible programs with kicka## show routines like Fallin'. Let's face it, folks, Michelle Kwan has been in the unusual situation of being a consistent world-beater, the gold standard, the class in her field, and within that pressure cooker, she has been developing two fundamental aspects of her as figure skater, the tough-as-nails, unflappable competitor and the expressive artist. It's sort of like she's been hacking away at a diamond all these years, polishing and polishing to express exactly all the beauty she has to offer.

She has an incredible amount of pure unrestrained joy and creative inspiration to show off in all the show programs that await, once she retires, whenever that is. It's basically a win/win situation for fans, I think; though most fans are accustomed to seeing her competing and holding on to her top spot, I imagine it'll get old for her at some point.

And can you imagine her NOT winning in Turin, for a third time? She'll certainly be the talk of the games (I see the headlines now--"third time's a charm for charm-wearing Kwan?" Remember the immortal, "can Kwan kick ice?"), but the other ladies are running at a pace to have made great strides in improving their presentation to match their technical skills by then. How would it feel to have held out and battered her body to wind up with yet another medal of the wrong color? It's a risk the competitor takes, but after so many competitions, despite the special importance of the Olympics, I think it's only symbolic meaning they can still hold for Michelle, because from where I'm standing, a competition is a competition is a competition, grueling, long, unforgiving of errors and fallibility, and Worlds are technically harder than the Olympics from the mere duration standpoint!

I guess it will be worth it for her if she finds joy in the challenging process of reinventing herself technically and artistically yet again (in the company of a wonderful and caring coach who seems to have her best interests at heart and wants to see her do well and receive her due, I might add) to face off against the fearsome jumps and ever-improving artistry of the Japanese on the one hand, and against Sasha's imminent X factor, when the fire in her is blazing and the power is harnessed most effectively, which we saw in the SP round at Worlds.

I dunno; just my two cents and then some

Sarah


p.s. I don't think she had a bad Worlds, soogar, though I enjoyed your post. She had two major mistakes in her QR (a fluke, not a sign of decline, IMO) and cut the music too close for comfort in the SP, and still had 4/9 1st place ordinals over Arakawa in her SP...hardly a sign of falling out of favor with the judges when you end up with bronze at an event at which you were not at your best competitively.

 

[JOHIO2]

My 2 cents.........just how many people can say they have won 3 Olympic medals, in 3 Olympics? (we are not talking speedskaters or track and field competitors here, OK?) If Michelle went to Italy and came home with a medal of any color, she would still have 3 medals.

Only skaters I can think of offhand to collect 3 different medals in 3 different games were Klimova and Ponomorenko (sure I spelled that wrong!) or maybe some pair skaters. I doubt there are many more dancers besides them, since dance was a fairly recent addition to the Olympics. (recent being a relative term. the older you get, the more "relative" it seems to become LOL).

And I still say that an uninjured Michelle is still in the medal hunt in 2006.

 

[jesslily]

People may somrtimes complained that Michelle every year has the same old stuff. But how many skaters have been putting out same good quality performance for many years after you got few national, world, and Olympic tiltles? Some skaters obtained a couple of titles and left the skating scene right away, and some skaters before they achieve some major titles already show the sign of wearing out.

Michelle's personality, elegant style, and passion for the sport helped her make a very successful skating career in eligible circuit.
She should keep going for her OGM.

I am also very confident she's going to do great when she turns pro in the future.

 

[adamlondon]

she wont retire

I can say with confidence MK wont be retiring I reckon she's so hooked onto skating and competing it's like a drug for her. WHat is she going to do if she retires? Coaching, get married and have kids, Study or do professional stuff?? Come on, a girl like her is unstoppable when it comes to competition and the adrenaline. She might say she'll retire after coming third but shell get itchy feet when all this is over and she starts practices again.

Another think I reckon for her is that the judges did hold her up in Dortmund. If you look at the QR which she totally blew (for her standards) she still came in third whilst Fumie ended up in 7th place. Even in the LP she got so many sixes for a bothced performance and I really think the messae for her is to stay on, compete. I can tell you MK has brought so much more to skating than most people think. I bet about 20% of the ticket sales have in part to do with her being there. Then there's TV audiences, merchandise and all the stuff about inspiration for young skaters... So just like they were ready to crown her Olympic CHampion in Salt Lake they will be more than ready in Turin to give it to her.

 

[gezando]

Re: she wont retire

Even in the LP she got so many sixes for a bothced performance and I really think the messae for her is to stay on, compete. I can tell you MK has brought so much more to skating than most people think. I bet about 20% of the ticket sales have in part to do with her being there. Then there's TV audiences, merchandise and all the stuff about inspiration for young skaters... So just like they were ready to crown her Olympic CHampion in Salt Lake they will be more than ready in Turin to give it to her.

The botched performance is doubling a lutz did not interupt the flow of the program, 6.0 does not mean perfect, just a place holder. Cohen botched her lp with a failed 2s that looked scratchy, and an unchecked triple flutz with a bledning jump exit, she received 3 ordinals over Michelle. Overall I think the judges called it right.

Judges ready to crown MK in Turin LOL. Were jduges ready to crown Cohen as 2004 world champion going into the free skate, and did Shizuka made them change their mind.

Glad to see you are so supportive of Fumie. In fsu, some people who were there just like you said Fumie actually deserved to be placed #1 in the sp over Sasha.

About 20% ticket sales, did you pay 20% of your ticket to watch Michelle or did you pay 100% of your tickets for a good competition?

 

[euterpe]

I was simply amazed the way Michelle was able to handle her own disappointing QR performance, then go on to skate a spirited SP. Following the SP and the disappointing marks, she had to accept the time deduction and 4th place ranking. Having gotten past that, she was faced with a streaker, but was able to regroup and go on to skate a splendid FS.

How many skaters could have done that? Certainly not Sasha, probably not Arakawa. She is one in a million.

 

[mzheng]

There is no way judges are ready to crown MK or Sasha at this 2004 worlds. The word is no one can talk to Judge panel during the competetion except TT. She must have some special ISU official authority to do so. No denying Arakawa fully deserve her win, also no denying 'politics' plaied hand.

If you say MK was held up in QR then how do you justify Ando's 2nd place ahead of MK, with her very first skate in Senior worlds, complete the same number of triples as Michelle, also had a fall the only thing Ando had MK didnot is that 3/3. But MK sure had better spiral, basics and some than Ando.

Whatever done is done. MK deserve the 3rd placement, Sasha deserved her silver place and Arakawa deserved her gold. The top 3 final placement was right. Though it is another story that had it be a truely fair judged event and not so many things happened around MK, every one would have different mind set going into the free.

I don't see her retire now even she wants to. USFSA needs her to secure 3 berthes into 2006 Turino.

I agree many of what sarahmistral said in her post. In my heart, for her own sake I hope she just retire, with accomlishments like that why contiune push yourself so hard in the risk of destroy you body and still can't please some of fans (lol, I know she dosn't care so much of fans has to say to her skating caree). but for myselfish own sake, I hope she stay, I saw she needs the adreanine in competetion to drive her to gave those magical performance. I don't think the show env competitve enough to drive her skated all out. JMO.

 

[nymkfan51]

mzheng, you are so right about the USFSA needing MK to secure berths for the 2006 Olympics.
I hadn't really thought about that until this morning. If Michelle were to retire now ... we would be sending Sasha and who else ?to Worlds next year. I am not confident that we would be able to get the placements required to secure 3 spots.

 

[soogar]

So many people are concerned that if MK isn't around we won't get 3 spots. Come on! The ladies field at Nationals is a deep one and just b/c jenny was a dud in this championship doesn't mean all of the ladies are like that. One trend I've noticed is that whenever a skater retires, there's always another lady to bring up the slack. There are juniors who will be seniors next year who might make an impact. Plus with the code of points, there won't be so much reliance on holding up the champion and the judges will just score what they see which will open the doors to new people. I think that COP might be why the field was so deep this year b/c you have a lot of skaters who feel that they have a shot with this new system and are stepping up.

 

[adamlondon]

Gezando said
''The botched performance is doubling a lutz did not interupt the flow of the program, 6.0 does not mean perfect, just a place holder. Cohen botched her lp with a failed 2s that looked scratchy, and an unchecked triple flutz with a bledning jump exit, she received 3 ordinals over Michelle. Overall I think the judges called it right.''
I think 6.0 does mean perfect presentation, the place holder is the ranks i would think. And I don't know why Cohen was brought into the discussion, things like that are said in the michelle kwan forum. go have a look.

''Judges ready to crown MK in Turin LOL. Were jduges ready to crown Cohen as 2004 world champion going into the free skate, and did Shizuka made them change their mind. ''

I dont think they were ready to crown Sasha I dont know who said that. She is nowhere near Michelle's stature.

''Glad to see you are so supportive of Fumie. In fsu, some people who were there just like you said Fumie actually deserved to be placed #1 in the sp over Sasha. ''

I am supportive of Fumie. She's underrated I would say. I don't know what this has to do with Sasha again. Putting Fumie 1st over Sasha is completely ridicuolous. Who are these people?


''About 20% ticket sales, did you pay 20% of your ticket to watch Michelle or did you pay 100% of your tickets for a good competition?''

If anyone understand this statement please explain it to me, I must be going daft.

 

[tnt2002isnt]

Isn't it funny that whenever Michelle Kwan falters at a major competition (Which is always a silver or bronze medal btw), the subsequent hottest topic is whether or not she should retire. But when she would come back the following season with an amazing skate, suddenly we hear "Who says Michelle Kwan was going anywhere?!" I have no doubt that this young woman will make her detractors and critics eat their own worlds next season or at least refuse to retire just to p*ss them off. I have no doubt Michelle will retire when she feels she's no longer skating just for the joy of it and the passion to skate competitively is no longer there. I haven't seen that reflected in her skating yet, have you?

Although there appeared to be a big stink at this years World Championships, it didn't quite succeed in driving Kwan off the ice. And the skating world should breath a sigh of relief that she didn't just pack up her bags and leave. There might be a lot of people out there who are not Kwan fans, but I can safely assume that there are even MORE people who are devoted fans of her. It doesn't matter if you dislike her skating or love it beyond devotion, you will have to acknowledge that figure skating will never be quite the same again once she's gone.

 

[mzheng]

So many people are concerned that if MK isn't around we won't get 3 spots. Come on! The ladies field at Nationals is a deep one and just b/c jenny was a dud in this championship doesn't mean all of the ladies are like that. One trend I've noticed is that whenever a skater retires, there's always another lady to bring up the slack. There are juniors who will be seniors next year who might make an impact. Plus with the code of points, there won't be so much reliance on holding up the champion and the judges will just score what they see which will open the doors to new people. I think that COP might be why the field was so deep this year b/c you have a lot of skaters who feel that they have a shot with this new system and are stepping up.

Yes. US has a deep lady field. But no one is as consistant. It takes top 2 placements added to 13 to secure 3 berth for US. If MK choose retiring now, it would be like post 1992 Kristi went pro, leave US team on hand of Kerrigan, Harding, etc. they blew up at 1993 worlds only getting two spots instead of three.

Assume Sasha stay on podium next year, which is an IF, since Sasha has never been consistant like this world. A top 6 finish is a much safe betting. Who do you think US can send to worlds to get a top 10 finish?

People had a big expectation on Jenny, since she almost beat Sasha at SA, but look at where she finished under big pressure.

BTW,
besides the top 2 placement have to add up to 13. Is there any other way, like Gold or Silver finish, to get 3 berthes?

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Re: she wont retire

Another think I reckon for her is that the judges did hold her up in Dortmund. If you look at the QR which she totally blew (for her standards) she still came in third whilst Fumie ended up in 7th place. Even in the LP she got so many sixes for a bothced performance and I really think the messae for her is to stay on, compete. I can tell you MK has brought so much more to skating than most people think. I bet about 20% of the ticket sales have in part to do with her being there. Then there's TV audiences, merchandise and all the stuff about inspiration for young skaters... So just like they were ready to crown her Olympic CHampion in Salt Lake they will be more than ready in Turin to give it to her.

Very interesting post. Lots of analytical thought. I agree she was held up in the Quali but the next set of judges knocked her down in the SP (for revenge?) and the third set of judges thought she was super sensational and she got all those 6s. So in my analytical thoughts, she is a skater that is loved or hated not only with fans but with judges so placements are very much dependent on who is judging. One thing is sure, if she falters, she will pay the penalty. There will no holding her up.

Will she be Queen of Moscow or Queen of Torino? It's a slippery subjective sport. No one has that answer.

Joe