DWTS easy judging replace IJS?

[Mathman]

Its not about wanting to be important or deciding results. We just think math is cool and awesome and beautiful. Everywhere is right place to do math. Why not do math if you can do math?

Sorry, you just were extremely offensive to all the math lovers. Like, extremely.

When the CoP first came out, I was all over it, making charts and graphs and running statistical correlations. After a while, though, it occurred to me that the only mathematics involved is adding up a column of numbers.

What is really cool is ordinal judging systems. The reason why is because of a mathematical result called Arrow's Impossibility Theorem. This basically says that it is mathematically impossible to design a fair judging system based on ordinals.

 

[Rissa]

So how about combining the systems, lol. Basically, let's recalculate the scores on sort of 1-10 scales with the tes being allowed to go higher than ten. Easiest to do is Mens: Hanyu gets 12.0 for technical merit a d 9.8 for PCS. The OMG effect because of getting a 12 out of 10 is guaranteed. Then recalculate the ladies, pairs and dance , the ladies 80 becomes a 100 and so forth. Evgenia gets 9.7 tes and 9.0 pcs, Papadakis/Ciceron get 9.9 tes and 9.8 pcs, .Duhamel/Radford get 9.9 tes and 9.3 pcs. The buffs, judges and competitors still have their protocols and the unwashed masses have their fun.

 

[VIETgrlTerifa]

I'd like something more like gymnastics, where you simply have a difficulty score and an execution score. Maybe I would add a performance score as well.

Considering how I've watched gymnastics "evolve" in the past two decades plus seeing how it used to look like in the Golden Age of the 1970s-early 1990s on YouTube and comparing it to what it is now, I would rather figure skating not adopt anything from gymnastics.

 

[moriel]

When the CoP first came out, I was all over it, making charts and graphs and running statistical correlations. After a while, though, it occurred to me that the only mathematics involved is adding up a column of numbers.

What is really cool in ordinal judging systems. The reason why is because of a mathematical result called Arrow's Impossibility Theorem. This basically says that it is mathematically impossible to design a fair judging system based on ordinals.

I mostly go for statistics =)
For example, see the distribution of GOE's for each element. There are interesting patterns sometimes =)
Or try predicting the chances of a skater messing up based on how the first elements were executed. Ofc a big fail most of the time =)

 

[Mathman]

I mostly go for statistics =)
For example, see the distribution of GOE's for each element. There are interesting patterns sometimes =)
Or try predicting the chances of a skater messing up based on how the first elements were executed. Ofc a big fail most of the time =)

This will be even more fun now that anonymous judging has been discarded. We can quantify our suspicions that judge no. 3 is a big crook!

 

[moriel]

This will be even more fun now that anonymous judging has been discarded. We can quantify our suspicions that judge no. 3 is a big crook!

Yup, quite eager for this =)
Hope they don't get shy though - I worry they will start giving "safe" scores, trying to fit into other judge's scoring pattern so their score doesnt look weird =(

 

[Mathman]

Hope they don't get shy though - I worry they will start giving "safe" scores, trying to fit into other judge's scoring pattern so their score doesnt look weird =(

They do that already. Judges know that they have to stay in the "corridor" to avoid an "anomaly" or and "assessment" from the ISU.

 

[moriel]

They do that already. Judges know that they have to stay in the "corridor" to avoid an "anomaly" or and "assessment" from the ISU.

Would be worse though, because the corridor is reasonably large... Now if fans see "omg this dude gave 0.25 less PCs to my fav skater than other judges", the poor judge may as well recieve some cow poo in a mail.

 

[Rissa]

Would be worse though, because the corridor is reasonably large... Now if fans see "omg this dude gave 0.25 less PCs to my fav skater than other judges", the poor judge may as well recieve some cow poo in a mail.

Did judges receive cow poo in the mail under 6.0? Suffered the wrath of the fans in any way?

 

[gkelly]

There were boos when individual judges' marks were announced (although fans who booed low marks weren't necessarily keeping track of the ordinals those judges were awarding -- some judges just marked low across the board).

But individual judges' marks won't be announced in the arena with IJS. There are just too many different marks.

I doubt disgruntled fans would track individual judges down after protocols are published just to harrass them. But it only takes one crazy to give all fans a bad name.

 

[Biellmann]

Did judges receive cow poo in the mail under 6.0? Suffered the wrath of the fans in any way?

People have changed. Today's people are more aggressive and (over)sensitive :dev2:

 

[Rissa]

People have changed. Today's people are more aggressive and (over)sensitive :dev2:

Meaning "no"?

Lol, nice try.

I don't think figure skating fans, even young ones, are particularly agressive. I really can't see any poo being mailed. They're more likely to post tumblr rants.

 

[Biellmann]

Meaning "no"?

Lol, nice try.

I don't think figure skating fans, even young ones, are particularly agressive. I really can't see any poo being mailed. They're more likely to post tumblr rants.

You're talking about the past, but we are not in the past anymore. People these days take sport way too seriously. Look at the reactions after Adelinas win in Sochi. Or look at foosball. People, even parents of kids who plays foosball are more and more aggressive toward the judges. It already happened that kids have beaten a judge to death bc they wasn't happy with his decisions. People are not happy with their lives, they watch sport to compensate for something, there are many irrational tensions. This is a serious issue

 

[Rissa]

You're talking about the past, but we are not in the past anymore. People these days take sport way too seriously. Look at the reactions after Adelinas win in Sochi. Or look at foosball. People, even parents of kids who plays foosball are more and more aggressive toward the judges. It already happened that kids have beaten a judge to death bc they wasn't happy with his decisions. People are not happy with their lives, they watch sport to compensate for something, there are many irrational tensions. This is a serious issue

Where was I talking about the past? People used to vent on Tumblr in the past? I'm talking about present. And about figure skating. What exactly happened regarding Adelina's win in Sochi other than people arguing online? (To be fair, I started actively following FS a season after Sochi so I might have missed some violent inciditents.)

 

[mcq]

Horrible idea.

Actually, I am an avid follower of the competitive ballroom/latin dance (called dancesport). They are not even using this so called judging system in the actual "sport" of the field. Following what casual viewers "want" would do nothing good for the sport itself, it will just be a popularity contest instead of deciding who is the best. They would not necessarily attract the casual viewers as avid fan but possibly drive the loyal fan away. I doubt viewers who watch DWTS even have any idea who is the current world champion in the dancesport field itself.

Also, I don't know why people hate IJS/CoP so much, it certainly is a much better system than 6.0. It is not ideal, yes, it could have been improved. But any judging system would only work when the judges know how to use them accordingly. Due to skating being an artistic sport, and that artistry is subjective, no matter what kind of judging system used people will have something to debate over. Not to mention, ahem, politics. At least it is better than dancesport judging system.