Ekaterina Bobrova & Dmitri Soloviev

solani

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Sep 8, 2014
Top manager of 'Grindex' (the company who produces Mildronat) says they will send new information and more proofs to WADA that Meldonium should be excluded from 'banned drugs list' in 2017. And a lot more of interesting things, unfortunately only on Russian.

https://meduza.io/feature/2016/03/0...rtsru&utm_medium=partner&utm_campaign=friends
It's a bit late for that, isn't it? They should have done that last year when it was on the monitoring list. The data available shows that it's widely misused.
Some people make it sound as if meldonium is a health supplement. It isn't. It's a medicine for people with heart disease.
 

solani

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Sep 8, 2014
No. the Fed will never allow it, because it's Mozer's group doctor Filipp Shvetsky.
Hmm ... that's bad. Because if he did it he would have to face serious consequences. So if he did it Bobrova will have to take the blame, because the Fed protects the doctor? :noshake:
 

dorispulaski

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Hmm ... that's bad. Because if he did it he would have to face serious consequences. So if he did it Bobrova will have to take the blame, because the Fed protects the doctor? :noshake:

Yes, that is what is bothering me. In Kostner's/Kostner's boyfriend's case, much was made out of the concept of a "doping doctor." Kostner was supposed to avoid even being in the general vicinity of the notorious doctor. So why is not WADA going after the doctor here?

Who thinks Bobrova prescribed and prepared an injection for herself?
 

Perdita

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Dec 15, 2014
Also, there're two doctors in concern here. Shvetsky is the one who did the injection at Euros but AFAIR Bobrova said the injection was prepared and bottled by her usual doctor before she flew to Bratislava. People likely to assume it's Shvetsky if it was a doctor's mistake, but isn't it also still possible that it was her normal doctor's?
 
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solani

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Sep 8, 2014
Also, there're two doctors in concern here. Shvetsky is the one who did the injection at Euros but AFAIR Bobrova said the injection was prepared and bottled by her usual doctor before she flew to Bratislava. People likely to assume it's Shvetsky if it was a doctor's mistake, but isn't it also still possible that it was her normal doctor's?
She said she received two injections. I kind of hope that the meldonium was in the second injection seperartely. I know that doctors prepare vitamin cocktails and inject them, but I've never heard that they put drugs into those cocktails also. Or do they?
 

Snow63

Pray one day we'll open our eyes.
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It's a bit late for that, isn't it? They should have done that last year when it was on the monitoring list. The data available shows that it's widely misused.
Some people make it sound as if meldonium is a health supplement. It isn't. It's a medicine for people with heart disease.

They've sent a lot of information and researches to WADA last year, but it was pretty short notice, not everything was done in time. So. Why is it too late? It's never too late. Mildronat is not the only med with this kind of recovery effects, there are analogues. But guess what, Meldonium is the only one banned.
It is a health supplement, by the way. Have you read the instruction? That's one, official instruction from producing firm on Russian http://pda.rlsnet.ru/tn_index_id_822.htm I will not even try to translate it, but it says that this med could be used even from just tiredness and during high physical and mental stress.
 
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Snow63

Pray one day we'll open our eyes.
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Also, there're two doctors in concern here. Shvetsky is the one who did the injection at Euros but AFAIR Bobrova said the injection was prepared and bottled by her usual doctor before she flew to Bratislava. People likely to assume it's Shvetsky if it was a doctor's mistake, but isn't it also still possible that it was her normal doctor's?

It was from the second ejection, most probably. Because first ampule was opened in her presence, and she knew what it was.
 

Perdita

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It was from the second ejection, most probably. Because first ampule was opened in her presence, and she knew what it was.

I think so too. I too believe Shvetsky is more likely to be involved here. My point was that if WADA wants to investigate the doctor, there're two doctors to be examined.
 

Snow63

Pray one day we'll open our eyes.
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I think so too. I too believe Shvetsky is more likely to be involved here. My point was that if WADA wants to investigate the doctor, there're two doctors to be examined.

Shvetsky has doping history with Russian rowing team, by the way. Google it if you want to know more.
 

tvuckic16

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Shvetsky has doping history with Russian rowing team, by the way. Google it if you want to know more.

Seems to me that Shvetsky is sloppy. Probably can't be bothered to read an email notification or follow guidelines. Maybe he is a good doctor, but clearly needs a better organized administrative assistant who will digest administrative information for him and he needs multiple reminders and careful oversight from the Fed.
 

Snow63

Pray one day we'll open our eyes.
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Seems to me that Shvetsky is sloppy. Probably can't be bothered to read an email notification or follow guidelines. Maybe he is a good doctor, but clearly needs a better organized administrative assistant who will digest administrative information for him and he needs multiple reminders and careful oversight from the Fed.

If that's the case everyone would get injection of Meldonium. At least both Katia and Dima together. Looks more like planned action on his part to me.

Besides both Katia and Gorshkov said every doctor of National team was instructed about Meldonium.
 
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uhh

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Nov 19, 2013
If that's the case everyone would get injection of Meldonium. At least both Katia and Dima together. Looks more like planned action on his part to me.

Well, we don't know who else he was treating, (just Mozer's skaters & B/S, or more?) and who else was having injections. Also, if Ekaterina was tested, Dima wouldn't have been because they only test one skater from each partnership, so we don't know what his status was. Also ice dance FD was in the afternoon, other skaters in singles & pairs competed in the evening & this drug metabolises very quickly - so if they got it the night before, enough could have gone from their body by the time it came to be tested to not show up in the sample. There's just too much we don't know at this point to say who is responsible.
 

Snow63

Pray one day we'll open our eyes.
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Well, we don't know who else he was treating, (just Mozer's skaters & B/S, or more?) and who else was having injections. Also, if Ekaterina was tested, Dima wouldn't have been because they only test one skater from each partnership, so we don't know what his status was. Also ice dance FD was in the afternoon, other skaters in singles & pairs competed in the evening & this drug metabolises very quickly - so if they got it the night before, enough could have gone from their body by the time it came to be tested to not show up in the sample. There's just too much we don't know at this point to say who is responsible.

Katia said he was the only doctor with the team, so I guess he was treating most skaters at least, maybe all the skaters even. But you're right, too many questions.
By the way Gorshkov today said that they have new information that it could stay in blood up to four months. Not Katia's case obviously, but still. I can't post the link, I'm on my phone. But you can find his latest interview easily.

Edit: here it is: http://tass.ru/sport/2728488 'There's more questions than answers in Bobrova's case' by Gorshkov. The whole interview basically is long version of 'no comments' comment.

P.S. Okay. I decided not to post on this forum until the final decision on Ekaterina Bobrova's case will be published by WADA.
 
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solani

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Sep 8, 2014
They've sent a lot of information and researches to WADA last year, but it was pretty short notice, not everything was done in time. So. Why is it too late? It's never too late. Mildronat is not the only med with this kind of recovery effects, there are analogues. But guess what, Meldonium is the only one banned.
It is a health supplement, by the way. Have you read the instruction? That's one, official instruction from producing firm on Russian http://pda.rlsnet.ru/tn_index_id_822.htm I will not even try to translate it, but it says that this med could be used even from just tiredness and during high physical and mental stress.
A medicine can never be a health supplement as far as I know. Health supplements should give the body something it's missing and meldonium is nothing that a healthy body needs or produces, it's not a vitamin or a mineral and not a hormone. I'd go as far as to say that natural EPO and testosterone are more likely health supplements than meldonium. And yes, they are more potent doping substances as well.
 

tvuckic16

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Mar 29, 2014
A medicine can never be a health supplement as far as I know. Health supplements should give the body something it's missing and meldonium is nothing that a healthy body needs or produces, it's not a vitamin or a mineral and not a hormone. I'd go as far as to say that natural EPO and testosterone are more likely health supplements than meldonium. And yes, they are more potent doping substances as well.

Right.

My understanding of melodonium is this.

Melodonium inhibits fatty acid oxidation and it is used to treat angina or myocardial infraction. So it is not a supplement.

In the case of the athletes the medicine is not being used for its original intended purpose. Melodonium for a healthy person probably works with the same general effect as ibuprofen in that for the vast majority of people it does pretty much the same thing.

In the case of ibuprofen, it kills your pain. In the case of melodonium, based on my scientific knowledge, it most likely improves peripheral circulation (upper and lower extremities). Improved circulation of course brings new oxygenated blood and nutrients to your organs faster and is thus likely considered doping, such as blood transfusions to oxygenate blood are also considered doping.
 

icedinn

wishing ksenia/kirill happiness 4ever
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Dec 5, 2012
This is just all so sad to me.
Why did it have to happen to them?
 

bramweld

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Nov 12, 2012
This is just all so sad to me.
Why did it have to happen to them?

The bigger questions I ask are,"Was this the norm for all Russia's athletes?, Is nothing off bounds for the sake of medals?, What are the long term effects on these kids?" Very sad indeed.
 
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