Elena Ilinykh & Ruslan Zhiganshin

[bramweld]

Maybe you're right. I'm surprised, because I thought with the lovely light skating they showed in the steps in Appassionata that they would handle it really well, but they haven't gone for that kind of waltz. I also think they'd be fab at a sweeping, dark waltz like Schnittke's from The Story of an Unknown Actor, but something about this rock-yet-perky SD isn't quite clicking yet. It's pitched somewhere in the middle of two styles and isn't hitting either target yet.

Maybe, that's why Pechalat was confused. They need to skate it more up tempo the way they did at MO. There is no middle ground for this kind of waltz. I don't agree that the traditional waltz doesn't suit them though as they haven't even tried to present a traditional waltz. Give them time.

 

[MK's Winter]

Maybe, that's why Pechalat was confused. They need to skate it more up tempo the way they did at MO. There is no middle ground for this kind of waltz. I don't agree that the traditional waltz doesn't suit them though as they haven't even tried to present a traditional waltz. Give them time.

I agree. I am glad they polished up that second half. The lift kinda had me scared because I thought he was going to lose his footing. But our Ruslan is a tough cookie!

 

[MK's Winter]

Ruslena article from google translate:

https://translate.googleusercontent...5.html&usg=ALkJrhiN3uIorh3L3tptHOOnV9WZQuF2Dw

 

[Marta25]

So, I had finally time to watch Ruslena`s SD. I really love this SD and I would be sad to see it disappear. I don`t know what went wrong. They got really bad GOE on both RW sequences. Even G/P at SA got more than them. I also don`t understand this huge gap in PCS compared to C/B. Maybe someone who understands it better can explain it to me, because I just don`t get it.

I don`t know if they should change their SD to something more traditional. British Eurosport liked their SD and mentioned that it fits them really well, so I don`t know if something super-classic would even fit them. S/K and B/S are both going as classic as you can go and it`s not like they are scoring near to C/B and W/P in the SD.

They are really pushing it this year with the difficulty of their programs and maybe they just need more time to get the SD to a point where they can perform how it`s supposed to.

 

[chameleon]

It is possible that there's a factor of the judges not knowing who Russia #1 is, and also being conservative until I/Z put clean programs together more often. And honestly, considering how strict this panel seems, their score really isn't that bad.

 

[Marta25]

It is possible that there's a factor of the judges not knowing who Russia #1 is, and also being conservative until I/Z put clean programs together more often. And honestly, considering how strict this panel seems, their score really isn't that bad.

No, it`s not. If they don`t hit the 70 mark in November, doesn`t mean they won`t hit it for the rest of the season. I mean even P/C who became World Champions only had a low 60 at their first GP last season, so nothing is lost. Also, Ruslena managed to increase their SD score last season from a 60 to nearly 70. I just want them to do well so badly, that I hope they will get some COR overscoring in two weeks

 

[uhh]

@Marta25 It's the "I don't understand this" score that makes me think they should consider changing things. I don't love the program, but they were clean and fast, mostly precise, could have had more attack but so could C/L, and yet they are still a way off the leaders with lower PCS than last year & stingy GOE on some of their elements. It just makes me think that the judges are not going with this program.

Maybe if they give a good performance of the FD here, the judges will be more willing to go with everything in future events, like what happened with P/C last year. But if they give another strong performance of this dance in Russia and don't get higher marks, then I think the signs are pointing to the judges not wanting to see teams taking risks like this.

http://fsrussia.ru/news/1391-elena-...vzyat-muzyku-oueen-to-ona-otsenila-srazu.html They sound really positive here at least!

 

[MK's Winter]

It is possible that there's a factor of the judges not knowing who Russia #1 is, and also being conservative until I/Z put clean programs together more often. And honestly, considering how strict this panel seems, their score really isn't that bad.

While Euros and Worlds were rough last year, they had consistent events at the GP, moved up in the free in the GPF. They skated well at the test skates, MO, and in the SD. To me they are the most consistent so far this season. The free dance is gorgeous and now it will be interesting skating back to back with Chock and Bates. I am interested to see how they will be scored. They have a free dance that can win this. Or at least finish second. At Rostelecom they will be motivated so I'm not worried.

 

[Marta25]

@Marta25 It's the "I don't understand this" score that makes me think they should consider changing things. I don't love the program, but they were clean and fast, mostly precise, could have had more attack but so could C/L, and yet they are still a way off the leaders with lower PCS than last year & stingy GOE on some of their elements. It just makes me think that the judges are not going with this program.

Maybe if they give a good performance of the FD here, the judges will be more willing to go with everything in future events, like what happened with P/C last year. But if they give another strong performance of this dance in Russia and don't get higher marks, then I think the signs are pointing to the judges not wanting to see teams taking risks like this.

http://fsrussia.ru/news/1391-elena-...vzyat-muzyku-oueen-to-ona-otsenila-srazu.html They sound really positive here at least!

Thank you.

I read it with google translation, but did Elena say that they were considering using Masquerade Waltz?

 

[tulosai]

So, I had finally time to watch Ruslena`s SD. I really love this SD and I would be sad to see it disappear. I don`t know what went wrong. They got really bad GOE on both RW sequences. Even G/P at SA got more than them. I also don`t understand this huge gap in PCS compared to C/B. Maybe someone who understands it better can explain it to me, because I just don`t get it.

First: I am a huge C/B fan, they are probably the team I like second best other than Ruslena right now, so there is genuinely no malice in what I am about to say. However, I think the PCS gap was so high for a combination of the following reasons (in no order, truly. I probably could order them from most likely to be important to least likely to be important but I'm just too tired.)

1. I do think Ruslena's dance confused some of the more traditionally minded judges. C/B's waltz is not confusing lol.

2. C/B really are wonderful performers in person. I am actually only a fan of them at all because I saw them in person. In fact, they were legitimately my least favorite of the American teams before I saw them in person, and that included teams like Aldrage and Eton (pre split). They truly do not translate to TV accurately. They are much faster than you'd think, but also they really are explosive performers, and do it as if the blind guy in the last row is going to see it and say 'wow'. The judges I think are influenced highly by the following components of performance/execution when C/B skate and 'perhaps' reward them disproportionately in other categories for them:

-Physical, emotional and intellectual involvement
-Style and individuality/personality
-Projection

3. They are the darlings of the USFSA and unquestionably the USFSA's #1 dance team. Some people on the boards really like the Shibs and are in denial about this,but that's what it is: denial. The Shibs are doing great this year, and I also like and am happy for them, but when the judges press their buttons, they are sure they are pushing them for the #1 American team. They don't have to worry about which American team is number one or what they should do in this way. I also have absolutely no doubt that the USFSA hopes C/B can win Worlds in Boston this year and in addition to the general unwavering and strong impression they've given that C/B are their number one, I am sure they are also pushing them hard behind the scenes.

4. Igor is their coach. He is probably the most powerful coach in ice dancing right now. His students are all benefited by this.

5. C/B have also been benefited by 2 seasons as very consistent skaters technically. Even when they make a stupid mistake, they almost always hit the levels. Even the people on the boards who legitimately hate them don't try to deny this. Today was a major outlier. This consistency in hitting the levels has enabled them to get into a position where their performances tend to be rewarded in PCS also, even though they aren't supposed to be linked together like that..

This is my take on it.

 

[Marta25]

First: I am a huge C/B fan, they are probably the team I like second best other than Ruslena right now, so there is genuinely no malice in what I am about to say. However, I think the PCS gap was so high for a combination of the following reasons (in no order, truly. I probably could order them from most likely to be important to least likely to be important but I'm just too tired.)

1. I do think Ruslena's dance confused some of the more traditionally minded judges. C/B's waltz is not confusing lol.

2. C/B really are wonderful performers in person. I am actually only a fan of them at all because I saw them in person. In fact, they were legitimately my least favorite of the American teams before I saw them in person, and that included teams like Aldrage and Eton (pre split). They truly do not translate to TV accurately. They are much faster than you'd think, but also they really are explosive performers, and do it as if the blind guy in the last row is going to see it and say 'wow'. The judges I think are influenced highly by the following components of performance/execution when C/B skate and 'perhaps' reward them disproportionately in other categories for them:

-Physical, emotional and intellectual involvement
-Style and individuality/personality
-Projection

3. They are the darlings of the USFSA and unquestionably the USFSA's #1 dance team. Some people on the boards really like the Shibs and are in denial about this,but that's what it is: denial. The Shibs are doing great this year, and I also like and am happy for them, but when the judges press their buttons, they are sure they are pushing them for the #1 American team. They don't have to worry about which American team is number one or what they should do in this way. I also have absolutely no doubt that the USFSA hopes C/B can win Worlds in Boston this year and in general to the general and unwavering and strong impression they've given that C/B are their number one, I am sure they are also pushing them hard behind the scenes.

4. Igor is their coach. He is probably the most powerful coach in ice dancing right now. His students are all benefited by this.

5. C/B have also been benefited by 2 seasons as very consistent skaters technically. Even when they make a stupid mistake, they almost always hit the levels. Even the people on the boards who legitimately hate them don't try to deny this. Today was a major outlier. This consistency in hitting the levels has enabled them to get into a position where their performances tend to be rewarded in PCS also, even though they aren't supposed to be linked together like that..

This is my take on it.

Thank you for your explanation

I will see them live in Barcelona, maybe they will convince me there.

 

[Alba]

So, I had finally time to watch Ruslena`s SD. I really love this SD and I would be sad to see it disappear. I don`t know what went wrong. They got really bad GOE on both RW sequences. Even G/P at SA got more than them. I also don`t understand this huge gap in PCS compared to C/B. Maybe someone who understands it better can explain it to me, because I just don`t get it.

Nothing went wrong. What went good with CB twizzles for getting positive GoE's and even a +2? :reye:IZ were underscored big time today and shame on the judges.

 

[bramweld]

Nothing went wrong. What went good with CB twizzles for getting positive GoE's and even a +2? :reye:IZ were underscored big time today and shame on the judges.

Whaatt!! I didn't even notice that. I've got to go see their protocols.

(Yeah, but it was only one arbitrary guy. These people!!) But the GOE in general for everything else was through the roof. If it weren't for that and the CPR on the PCS they would have been third. :shame:

Oh well, that's all in the past, let's hope for an even better skate tomorrow.

 

[bsfan]

4. Igor is their coach. He is probably the most powerful coach in ice dancing right now. His students are all benefited by this.

Should I/Z consider changing coach for long term development? I/Z is pretty close to S/K, maybe slightly better. But their coaches are not that close. In general, Zueva's teams have had good programs over the years. Last year with S/K it was not bad, compared to I/Z's FD program.

 

[Alba]

Whaatt!! I didn't even notice that. I've got to go see their protocols. I know that either way Igor did not look happy with that skate. Oh well, that's all in the past, let's hope for an even better skate tomorrow.

Here you go. In the end I'm not that mad with the GoE's and I'm fine if they want to give to CB positive GoE's for their twizzles but in that case I want +3 from all the judges for IZ twizzles and I want the PCS these two deserved today. People might want to find a logic and good reasons for their scores today but the fact is there is none. They got these scores last season at CoC. At their first competition together. Do not tell me they had better SS a year ago and Carmen had more transitions. :noshake:
It's like PC after the SD in CoC last year, being placed behind CL. I just hope they have the same luck for the FD as PC did but I'm not holding my breath.

(Yeah, but it was only one arbitrary guy. These people!!) But the GOE in general for everything else was through the roof. If it weren't for that and the CPR on the PCS they would have been third. :shame:

It doesn't matter that it was one guy. They still got positive GoE's, zero negative, and I took it as an example precisely to show that there is no logic so don't try hard to find one.

Should I/Z consider changing coach for long term development?

Development in which area? PR?

I/Z is pretty close to S/K, maybe slightly better.

A lot better, IMO, but degustibus.

But their coaches are not that close. In general, Zueva's teams have had good programs over the years. Last year with S/K it was not bad, compared to I/Z's FD program.

In general I find Zoueva programs a generic snoozefest and monostyle, monotheme and mono everything. I thought SK FD last season was all about "oh I'm too sexy for my shirt" program but thatìs just me maybe.

 

[Marta25]

Should I/Z consider changing coach for long term development? I/Z is pretty close to S/K, maybe slightly better. But their coaches are not that close. In general, Zueva's teams have had good programs over the years. Last year with S/K it was not bad, compared to I/Z's FD program.

I think it`s too soon to talk about a coaching change. I also think that a lot has to happen for I/Z to want to leave Kustarova. They seem both very happy with her and the training environment she created. She is a good technical coach, she let`s them work with outside people on lifts and choreography. The only thing she is missing is the power with the judges. I/Z actually had better levels in the SD than B/S and S/K who have more powerful coaches, I really don`t know what they should do about this.

 

[bramweld]

Here you go. In the end I'm not that mad with the GoE's and I'm fine if they want to give to CB positive GoE's for their twizzles but in that case I want +3 from all the judges for IZ twizzles and I want the PCS these two deserved today. People might want to find a logic and good reasons for their scores today but the fact is there is none. They got these scores last season at CoC. At their first competition together. Do not tell me they had better SS a year ago and Carmen had more transitions. :noshake:
It's like PC after the SD in CoC last year, being placed behind CL. I just hope they have the same luck for the FD as PC did but I'm not holding my breath.



It doesn't matter that it was one guy. They still got positive GoE's, zero negative, and I took it as an example precisely to show that there is no logic so don't try hard to find one.

Let's just hope that things go better for them tomorrow. That FD deserves to be skated with aplomb.

 

[LisaM]

I was a little bit upset with the score but I figured out for myself that it was mostly because I want to see them in GPF again. When I saw the top team only scored 3 points more, I was more ok with it. Perhaps it's not fair (I haven't seen any SDs from CoC yet) but with this fairly small gap, it is still possible to get higher positions. Their first GP last season scored lower and then they jumped a lot by CoR. And even more during the rest of the season (talking SD only). I can see the same thing happening this year, except they have an actual good FD this year too.

 

[tulosai]

I think it`s too soon to talk about a coaching change. I also think that a lot has to happen for I/Z to want to leave Kustarova. They seem both very happy with her and the training environment she created. She is a good technical coach, she let`s them work with outside people on lifts and choreography. The only thing she is missing is the power with the judges. I/Z actually had better levels in the SD than B/S and S/K who have more powerful coaches, I really don`t know what they should do about this.

I don't think there is anything they can do to increase Kustarova's power at the moment, so I think what they have to do is consistently skate well and let the skating speak for itself. This might though limit the kinds of risks they can take in creating programs, which is something I hadn't really thought about before- I hate to sound like a negative broken record especially in a fan fest but I legitimately do think some of the judges were confused about this program and scored PCS lower due to their confusion. Maybe for the moment that's something this team can't afford?

I also absolutely do not think they should switch coaches, at least not now. I think Kustarova seems to understand them and they all seem to have an excellent relationship, and I think that is absolutely something that can't be overestimated on how important it is.

 

[Alba]

I think it`s too soon to talk about a coaching change. I also think that a lot has to happen for I/Z to want to leave Kustarova. They seem both very happy with her and the training environment she created. She is a good technical coach, she let`s them work with outside people on lifts and choreography. The only thing she is missing is the power with the judges. I/Z actually had better levels in the SD than B/S and S/K who have more powerful coaches, I really don`t know what they should do about this.

I so want these two to go with Igor like for two month just to see the "magic" it will come up with the scores, with the same exact skating and hear people saying: oh they have "improved" soooo much. :rofl2:I bet today they would've got 70. :handw: