Elena Ilinykh & Ruslan Zhiganshin | Page 324 | Golden Skate

Elena Ilinykh & Ruslan Zhiganshin

Yeah at this point I don't think there is any real indication that a psychologist is needed (other than in that it never really hurts I guess to see one just to talk things over). They have been together for less than two years, some bumps are to be expected. If this is still happening a year from now, we can talk again and I may change my opinion.
 
I mean, I'm not completely freaking out about them being headcases at all - it was to be expected last season that they wouldn't be consistent, & at least when they had an error at MO they didn't let it affect the rest of the program like they did at Euros & Worlds. And if you look at C/B or G/P, they didn't really get consistent until well into their 2nd season together. But I am worried that they said in the interview after today that they were nervous - they need to believe in their capabilities & their material, and not let doubts creep in.

It`s interesting that you mention C/B, because I checked their scores from their first two GP seasons and their scores weren`t that impressive. Before Nationals 2013 most people were expecting that they would fight for the #3 World`s spot with H/D, but C/B came out with all guns blazing at Nationals, where they won the Silver medal before the Shibs. We are also forgetting, that I/Z aren`t the only ones in the Russian team, who have to prove that they can be consistent competitors.
 
I don't know If I'm happy or sad. They need to polish their elements very much. I'm happy they got a medal but I'm sad because they can do much much more. They are losing points not because they cannot perform elements. They are losing because they are not working with rules. Small things takes away their points. Putting all the difficulties on elements will not going get extra points. Grade of Executions doesn't work this way.

They had to polish:
For FD:

1. First combination lift. It was level3 because Ruslan didn't hold his leg up 3 seconds. If they put difficult exit to this lift I believe they will get level4 without Ruslan's one leg pose. Same mistake happened at Senior-B. They can change rotational lift maybe. Upside down pose slows them down. They can change into more flowing pose maybe. I love that pose but level4 is more important. If I were their coach I would put difficult steps after the lift for difficult exit because I like the lift.
2. Twizzles of course. I hope they got wake up call now. That was clean as possible. It was fast and close (SD) and ice covarage of first set is amazing but didn't get any +3s because it doesn't look effortless. They should put steps between sets. Look how effortless Capellini/Lanotte doing same twizzles and getting +3s. If I were coach of them I would do steps and choreograpic twizzles. They are very good twizzlers actually.
3. Spin. Doesn't look effortless so they are losing GOE. If I were their coach I would change into the combination spin, changing legs.
4. Last lift. It was 4 seconds lift and Ilinykh's poses are beautiful. But doesn't have ice covarage and looks like choreograpic lift because it ends quickly. If I were a coach I would do real 6 seconds lift.
5. Choreograpic spin/lift very generic, should be more powerful and beautiful. I would put more rotations If I change. If I were a coach I would put choreograpic twizzles instead of it. Because I/Z are good twizzlers not good spinners.
6. Steps. If I were a coach I would put more hops, crossovers into first sequence, it looks heavy.

For SD:
1.Lift. Should move into to the We Will Rock You part to finish. They should find cool pose.
2.Twizzles. It is so sad twizzles will go great with WWRY but they are doing in waltz part.
3.Steps.

I will not say no If they want to change coaches to me. :cool14:
 
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Well that's why they have Gennady K., the head coach for the Russian team. I'm sure he's aware as to how they could polish their technique and improve their GOE. Let's see how things progress to nationals.
 
They made GPF with 4th and silver. We moved up to bronze here. Things to work on yes. It wasn't a disaster by any means.
 
They made GPF with 4th and silver. We moved up to bronze here. Things to work on yes. It wasn't a disaster by any means.

Thankfully, a positive note. I was a bit too harsh on them earlier. After viewing their performance without commentary, I realize that this just wasn't their day, but there is no denying the quality of these two. Their interviews also prove they understand the situation perfectly.
 
It looks like they won`t qualify for the GPF, this means they will have around 1 month to change the SD. If they want to make the change, they have to do it before Nationals.

I am kinda sad over them probably not qualifying for GPF though. :( I'm thinking B/S have the best shot right now.

Why is that? BS got bronze too in SC. With a win in CoR and a bronze here IZ can make the GPF. I don't know what happens with a silver in CoR though.

They lost levels on the curve lift and the second step sequence. They've been working on that lift for a year and a half and it's still not steady, I'd rather they went back to the one from last year. And if the split it into 3 short lifts instead of combo plus short they can maximise GOE.

That lift works perfectly with the music in that moment and it's a great lift. They need to execute it perfectly, which they can since they did it at the test skates and MO, not change it. You do not go and change every element just because you make a small mistake. You do it better next time.

It had much better light and shade in MO. It's being skated too fast and I don't know if that's coming from their coaches. Because if that is the case and this wasn't just a bad skate they need to change coaches as obviously they don't understand the nuances involved in great choreography. This program isn't about speed but the finer details.

Since when speed is a handicap in FS and ID in particular? The speed is great and it doesn't prevent you from expressing all the fine details and nuances you are talking about. On the contrary, it helps with the flow and make it look seamless.

I shudder to think what's being said about them outside their fan thread.:dumb:

They are already written off in their fan thread. What do you expect from others?:shrug:


Thank you very much. :)

There are 3 videos. Maybe one will work for you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lEhWGQR9gRs&ab_channel=NicoIchi
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XtYF8eBmdi4&ab_channel=icebergup
and the British Eurosport but the audio is bad: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LehcfbPPyzU&feature=youtu.be&ab_channel=frida340
 
@elif I agree. It's good to push yourself, but sometimes they are overcomplicating things that don't need to be that hard, and it hurts their scores. Like trying completely new lifts is good, but when they are adding so much difficulty compared to last season, they should have kept 1 or 2 of the lifts the same so they'd have parts of the program that was already comfortable. I love the change edge twizzles, but it's not getting rewarded, so make life easier for yourself and put the foot down between sets.

This is kind of what I was trying to say last night about the whole coaching team's strategy & it's also what I feel ended up happening a bit with the FD last season. Everything gets so complicated & fiddly, when it's better to just simplify so it's still enough for a level 4, but you can do it well enough to get +GOE.

That lift works perfectly with the music in that moment and it's a great lift. They need to execute it perfectly, which they can since they did it at the test skates and MO, not change it. You do not go and change every element just because you make a small mistake. You do it better next time.

At test skates the lift timing was too long, so it would have been a deduction, at MO they didn't hold the difficult position for long enough but got in the difficult exit, so it was ok. But it gives them zero room for error, and they had the exact same problem with the curve lift last season - they don't find the balance point quick enough, so either don't hold the 1 foot position & get a level 3 or hold it and get a time deduction, or do both like they did here. It's frustrating that they keep plugging away at the same thing and no one is going hang on, here is a recurring problem, can we try anything else. There are many more options that would make a curve lift easier for them something like N/N's or P/C's from last year which doesn't rely on the lifting partner getting onto one foot, or a variation on I/K's 1st lift in Ghost with a difficult exit, where you don't have to worry about getting the lifted partner balanced in such a high position.
 
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2.Twizzles. It is so sad twizzles will go great with WWRY but they are doing in waltz part.

I agree with some of your point but I totally disagree with this one. Twizzles there works soooooo well. There is no need to add them in the WWRY part. There are already a lot of steps there and it's the end. No need to add more risk, be tired and makes mistakes.

The use of both Queen songs makes the program cohesive for me, but their costumes don’t do a good job of melding the rock waltz to rock march. It would be nice to see Ruslan wear a black rocker style military jacket like the pictures I posted way back when. The military aspect fits with the traditional prince and princess waltz, but they could make the jacket black and add some leather and modernize it. I like Elena’s dress but not for this SD. For me, she needs a dress with more sparkles/sequins and little bit of rock-n-roll style to fit the march part of the SD. These are some dresses I think she would look gorgeous in (but maybe a little more rock with styling).
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I completely agree. I also think Elena needs to change her dress for the FD. I like Ruslan's shirt but not her dress.
 
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What I find strange is that every other Kustarova team is doing steps between the first and second set of twizzles. Their Junior team that qualified for JGPF is doing exactly the same set of twizzles as I/Z, only that they put steps between the first two twizzles. So, the issue isn`t that their team doesn`t know how to get good GOE on that element, but they chose for I/Z to make it more complicated.

@Alba: I don`t think anybody is writing them off in here, but qualifying for the GPF will be very tough since COR has the toughest field of all GPs.
 
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@Alba I'm not writing them off, I'm just frustrated that it's always the same problems.
 
@elif I agree. It's good to push yourself, but sometimes they are overcomplicating things that don't need to be that hard, and it hurts their scores. Like trying completely new lifts is good, but when they are adding so much difficulty compared to last season, they should have kept 1 or 2 of the lifts the same so they'd have parts of the program that was already comfortable. I love the change edge twizzles, but it's not getting rewarded, so make life easier for yourself and put the foot down between sets. This is kind of what I was trying to say last night about the whole coaching team's strategy & it's also what I feel ended up happening a bit with the FD last season. Everything gets so complicated & fiddly, when it's better to just simplify so it's still enough for a level 4, but you can do it well enough to get +GOE.
The dance was not over complicated in MO. They performed it quite well. They cannot remain complacent if they want to challenge for titles. As for the twizzles, if they are not being rewarded (when it's clear they should be) why question the move when it's the judging that should be questioned. I love the first lift, again performed better at MO, but Alba is right, they have to nail it. They were in a similar position last year, underscored in the SD with an ok free skate. They weren't so far off the top 2 even being severely underscored. They will get to work and have it together for Rostelecom, as they did last year.. We have some hard wear to bring back. Let's look at the positives.
 
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Alba, thanks for this post. Agree with most everything. They know obviously how to skate this piece better so let's wait for it.
 
@Alba: I don`t think anybody is writing them off in here, but qualifying for the GPF will be very tough since COR has the toughest field of all GPs.

Which means it's difficult for other couples also, unless you gave it for granted that SK will win and get a medal there and IZ will not. There are so many variations that could happen not only in CoR but NHK also.
We don't know if PC will skate, I doubt so, but it's not written on the stone that BS will win NHK either. Shibutanis beat them in SC and we don't know how HB will skate/score, or even BS will skate.
 
I agree with some of your point but I totally disagree with this one. Twizzles there works soooooo well. There is no need to add them in the WWRY part. There are already a lot of steps there and it's the end. No need to add more risk, be tired and makes mistakes.



I completely agree. I also think Elena needs to change her dress for the FD. I like Ruslan's shirt but not her dress.

While I love Lena's dress, if your going to change hers, I'd change both of their outfits. TBH, I would do one of two things, give Ruslan a white dress shirt with suspenders or simply make his current top close fitting.
 
Which means it's difficult for other couples also, unless you gave it for granted that SK will win and get a medal there and IZ will not. There are so many variations that could happen not only in CoR but NHK also.
We don't know if PC will skate, I doubt so, but it's not written on the stone that BS will win NHK either. Shibutanis beat them in SC and we don't know how HB will skate/score, or even BS will skate.

You sure have a point, I just don't think IZ will be able to beat both W/P and C/L right now. One of them, possibly, but not both unless something crazy happens to the other two couples and Ruslena hit the life out of their programs. Perhaps I'm underestimating them, maybe I'm realistic, I don't know either.
I think the teams going will be C/B (already qualified), W/P, C/L, Shibutanis, P/C possibly, and then a Russian team, and my gut says B/S have a better shot. But I could be wrong, definitely. I think we will know more when we see P/C next week.
 
G/P could also make it, they should be 2nd at TEB, then they'd have a 2+3. If B/S are 2nd at NHK, it would come down to who has the highest overall scores, same if S/K are 3rd at CoR or if I/Z are 2nd at CoR.
 
G/P could also make it, they should be 2nd at TEB, then they'd have a 2+3. If B/S are 2nd at NHK, it would come down to who has the highest overall scores, same if S/K are 3rd at CoR or if I/Z are 2nd at CoR.

Oh man that would be soooooo nervewrecking. Kinda like last year when it was basically between Ruslena and UK C/B.
 
At test skates the lift timing was too long, so it would have been a deduction, at MO they didn't hold the difficult position for long enough but got in the difficult exit, so it was ok. But it gives them zero room for error, and they had the exact same problem with the curve lift last season - they don't find the balance point quick enough, so either don't hold the 1 foot position & get a level 3 or hold it and get a time deduction, or do both like they did here. It's frustrating that they keep plugging away at the same thing and no one is going hang on, here is a recurring problem, can we try anything else. There are many more options that would make a curve lift easier for them something like N/N's or P/C's from last year which doesn't rely on the lifting partner getting onto one foot, or a variation on I/K's 1st lift in Ghost with a difficult exit, where you don't have to worry about getting the lifted partner balanced in such a high position.

I thought you were proposing them to do the lift they had last season, which as you mentioned had the same problem. Although they had a deduction in the first 2 GP's only. The rest of the season went fine, if I'm not mistaken? However, maybe their strategy is to go for difficulties so with time they get to perfection in their execution and the reward will be greater? Just speculating here because as you said there are other options and they are working with good specialists. So I don't think there is a lack of knowledge from their team. The same goes for the twizzles, which I love but I agree with elif. They can still execute a level 4 putting the foot down in the second set. It would be so much easier for them since they are very good twizzlers - they and the Shibutanis are the best among all couples with their twizzles - but they insist on these ones, so there must be a thought behind it. Will it pay in the end? Is it gonna be worth it? I guess only time will tell.

@Alba I'm not writing them off, I'm just frustrated that it's always the same problems.

I understand that and it's not like I'm happy and I don't see the problems but they have two difficult programs this season. The most difficult FD among all for sure and this in their second season together. With more time and as competition goes on I'm confident they will feel more confident and skate with much more freedom. There is no need to rush things, or worse start panicking (I'm referring to IZ not to us here). To start changing this and that will only bring more confusion. They have two good programs. The material is there, so focus on doing the job and execute them well. If they want to be champions one day they should aim for that, IMO.
 
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