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Well, their lifts weren`t that good last season and a mistake in the lift was the reason why they lost a medal at Euros. Their GOE for thier lifts improved compared to last season at least in the FD.
Elena Ilinykh & Ruslan Zhiganshin
- Thread starter OrdinaryDreamer
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Well, their lifts weren`t that good last season and a mistake in the lift was the reason why they lost a medal at Euros. Their GOE for thier lifts improved compared to last season at least in the FD.
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https://translate.googleusercontent...o.html&usg=ALkJrhhzSSLOs3h6pZXLhMPGAreIHFXsFg
Here is the Google translate for anyone who needs it. So happy Kustrova called the referee out on the judging error. I love it!!! Call out that ish- Kustrova is showing her teeth in such a classy way. Getting hip to the game. I am counting down to Nationals....
Here is the Google translate for anyone who needs it. So happy Kustrova called the referee out on the judging error. I love it!!! Call out that ish- Kustrova is showing her teeth in such a classy way. Getting hip to the game. I am counting down to Nationals....
This is why I suspect RusLena respect her so much. Who was that referee by the way? In fact I want to take just one more look at that panel. Do we know the panel already for Europeans?
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I am interested to see who the panel is at Nationals. Anyone know when we will know?
I know everyone is angry about that point and the judge made a mistake in the FD...but let's keep things in perspective, it wouldn't have made that much of a difference really. That point wasn't enough to erase what happened in the SD or get them onto the podium at CoR. So, I think the coaches should have argued just out of principle...but it doesn't change the overall big picture.
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That's why I love it. It's the principle of it. It is a statement that says we are looking at everything. Judges need to be called out for crap like that. It wouldn't have put them on the podium but it's points off the free dance. I get where Kustrova is coming from.
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I hope they are again using an international technical panel. It`s so tight this year, even worse than last year and I recall that nearly every technical specialist in Russia has a tie with one of the training groups. The only exception is maybe Ponomarenko, who is in the US, but even he was coached by Alexeeva and Tarasova.
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I thought they would do that again this year.
I respectfully disagree. When the competition is as tight as it is now, both in Russia and across the world, every ranking point and score matters. But more importantly it is the principle of the thing. One day its a deduction, the next it could be the level for a given element. These things are very important, no matter how seemingly small.
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I just watched the season's best FD performances of the four Russian top teams in a row, including Elena and Ruslan's CoR performance, and I have to say - I won't understand what the Russian Fed is thinking if they bury them (that is, if they don't even send them to Euros this season). What is more - I won't understand if they bury Elena. I like Ruslan, he is not unnoticable, and he is there for Elena, but Elena is clearly the only true diva on ice in the current Russian ice dancing. She has such a presence. Even in their SD which is less succesful and where her dance moves are not perfect. And their FD - the more I watch it (the CoR performance specifically), the more I love it. It is a shame how they were marked at CoR. The only thing in which Elena and Ruslan are truly weaker than the other Russian top teams (including S/K who were at CoR too) are their spins and maybe unison when it comes to them vs. Bobrova/Soloviev (which is natural). Even lifts are not that noticeably weaker anymore. In any case, technical elements, unless there are really huge errors in them, should not influence PCS.
Despite what I said in my previous sentence I think that, unfortunately, there may be some merit in what Staviski said about I/Z and their elements and moves - while there is a lot of choreography in their FD, there is no surprise/vow factor in their elements and entries into them (the curve lift position is vow, but that is something that judges have already seen from I/K in the Olympic season, so not as exciting anymore), and it could also be influencing judges when scoring them. I repeat, it should not be so, but it probably is. Staviski recommended Elena and Ruslan and their coaches to think about some more interesting entries into elements/exits out of them. I don't think that is really realistic for this season, but probably something they should think about in the future.
P.S. I know that Staviski is not quite objective when assessing Russian ice dance teams that are not from Zhulin's camp, but, seeing the judging (also for other teams, not just the Russian ones), he may be right on this.
Despite what I said in my previous sentence I think that, unfortunately, there may be some merit in what Staviski said about I/Z and their elements and moves - while there is a lot of choreography in their FD, there is no surprise/vow factor in their elements and entries into them (the curve lift position is vow, but that is something that judges have already seen from I/K in the Olympic season, so not as exciting anymore), and it could also be influencing judges when scoring them. I repeat, it should not be so, but it probably is. Staviski recommended Elena and Ruslan and their coaches to think about some more interesting entries into elements/exits out of them. I don't think that is really realistic for this season, but probably something they should think about in the future.
P.S. I know that Staviski is not quite objective when assessing Russian ice dance teams that are not from Zhulin's camp, but, seeing the judging (also for other teams, not just the Russian ones), he may be right on this.
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Respectfully, I don't agree. If I/Z have no wow factor with respect to entries and exits for their elements which other teams have? Well timed cross-overs and progressions will give you that wow factor? IMHO, it's not about the entrances and exits which are lovely for all their elements, its the combined effect of the original choreography the sophistication of the elements and the mix of styles that I find impressive in all that they do; not to mention the story telling. In addition to polishing every element, what I think is needed most is Ruslan's committment to his role in the FD. Everything just needs to look very easy with a touch more snap to their movements and a greater wow effect will come IMHO. Ruslan at times looks too concentrated in his facial expressions he needs time to get more comfortable with the choreo. To me for Elena it all looks rather second nature but not yet for Ruslan.
Some people say she rushed into a partnership with Ruslan, but who is her equal on the Russian squad, nobody. Cizeron is not available, neither is Moir. What is she to do, leave the sport? She just has to be patient, the initial comments about Katsalapov were less than complimentary when their careers began. IIRC he was just this "truck driver" who carried her around. "When will he grow up to be a good enough partner for her" blah, blah, blah. I think with Ruslan she's made a much more promising start they just need more time.
But most importantly I agree with you that their scoring at COR was a farce and she is extraordinary. Their choreography is very complex and intricate this year, something very ambitious for a second year team. Will it all come together come Nationals, I hope so. If not it will reap dividends in the future regardless.
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As for entrances into and exits from elements, I think the most noticeable ones are those into an out of lifts and maybe spins, sometimes twizzles. Elena and Ruslan have none of that in their FD. Not always those are some special entries, but, for instance, Sinitsina/Katsalapov have both a "vow" entry and an interesting exit from one of their lifts and an interesting exit from another + their rotational lift is pretty "vow" in itself as rotational lifts tend to be when done fast and well. Bobrova/Soloviev also have a nice exit from one of their lifts, although it is not "vow". As for other top teams, Shibutanis have their fourth set of twizzles as an exit from their "technical" twizzles, no to mention that their twzzles are "vow" in themselves, as is their rotational lift. Chock/Bates have their special (although still not perfect) entry into their spin, and also an "unexpected" entry into one of their lifts and an exit from another (not that I personally like it). As for Cappellini/Lanotte, one of their lifts is a "vow" in itself, an another one has an unexpected and really beautiful exit. Weaver/Poje have some transitional entry into or an exit out of almost each element, or a transition inside of an element (most of them are not "vow", but they give points). Etc.
I didn't say that I don't find their varied choreography impressive, because I do. I also find their lifts beautiful and like the first set of twizzles + appreciate the difficulty of the change of edge (which, unfortunately, is not that impressive when it slows down their ice coverage and takes away from their synchronicity). I was only thinking about how judges might perceive their elements.
I said nothing of the sort about Ruslan, and I never have (I didn't say such things about Katsalapov either, as I didn't even know them as a pair when they started skating together and was not on any figure skating forums). That is totally not what I meant when I said that Elena is the diva. You yourself said that Ruslan needs to improve his performance in this FD. Overall, he is not a natural like Elena, but he is learning quickly.
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So, how I understand it from Kustarova`s interview, they don`t plan to change their SD, I hope that they will get rewarded for this, because I fear it`s going to be their handicap for the rest of the season, if they qualify for Euros and Worlds.
Anyway, if we compare I/Z`s spin and lifts to last season, they actually improved a lot. I remember that from the start of their partnership, spin and lifts were their weaknesses and seems like they put a lot of work in the summer to improve these elements. The thing is that it takes time to create unique lifts. V/M`s lifts actually were also their weakness when they were juniors, but they put a lot of work into them to create unique positions. IMO, they had a breakthrough in that regard with their Pink Floyd FD, the lifts were just breathtaking, but it took them years of work with professionals to get there. You also have to remember that I/Z didn`t have 9 months of creating new lifts, spins and choreography like S/K. I/Z became Russian #1 practically over night and received all the criticism after World`s eventhough other teams also screwed up. But what should they have done? Should they have said: "We have to improve our lifts, so we will take time off. Good luck with that third World`s spot, btw!"
They are working on their weaknesses, step by step. This summer they worked on lifts, spin and choreo. I hope for the next summer they will work more on skating closer together and matching their lines.
Anyway, if we compare I/Z`s spin and lifts to last season, they actually improved a lot. I remember that from the start of their partnership, spin and lifts were their weaknesses and seems like they put a lot of work in the summer to improve these elements. The thing is that it takes time to create unique lifts. V/M`s lifts actually were also their weakness when they were juniors, but they put a lot of work into them to create unique positions. IMO, they had a breakthrough in that regard with their Pink Floyd FD, the lifts were just breathtaking, but it took them years of work with professionals to get there. You also have to remember that I/Z didn`t have 9 months of creating new lifts, spins and choreography like S/K. I/Z became Russian #1 practically over night and received all the criticism after World`s eventhough other teams also screwed up. But what should they have done? Should they have said: "We have to improve our lifts, so we will take time off. Good luck with that third World`s spot, btw!"
They are working on their weaknesses, step by step. This summer they worked on lifts, spin and choreo. I hope for the next summer they will work more on skating closer together and matching their lines.
Honestly, I don't see the wow you see in S/K. They are fast and and that's about it for me. Their inclination is towards classical movement and line and that suits them to a T, but it's nothing really new is it? None of their programs are particularly intricate in terms of choreography and hence the speed. IMHO, there is a certain sameness about the programs, especially the FD. I come to the end of the FD scratching my head to be honest.
OTOH, I really dig the sophistication and originality that I/Z bring and that's why I'm a fan. If I were a fan of S/K I'd be gushing in their fan thread, quite often. So maybe it's best to say what may be wow for you could be completely meh for someone else (me) and vice versa.
eace:
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