Elizaveta Tuktamysheva

[Meoima]

I've seen this description before here. Would this be considered an "oriental" theme? (Just asking for opinions.)
La Bionda are generally classified as one of the creators of "Italo-disco" music. Not sure exactly what specific regional sound they were going for with 'Sandstorm', though.
'Batwannis Beek' is Arabic music, or more specifically, Algerian Arabic.
I agree, I appreciate the change of pace in skating program music. Too bad about the Bolero SP though... that's one I can do without.

I also think of her FS music as a very fortunate choice, even the costume looks okay.
Her Bolero is my least favorite of all her programs, but it's working well for her. Hopefully next season she will have much better package.

 

[LRK]

I'm sort of neutral on Bolero as a music choice - I mean, I neither go "Ugh - Bolero!" or "Yay - Bolero!", but Liza certainly sells it, so while I'm watching her skating to it, I do enjoy the program.

I adore her FP, though! At first, when I heard the music, I thought: "Hmmmm... that's interesting... ?", but I also thought it rather suited her - but it has grown on me every time since - and it's definitely one of my absolute favourites this season, any category, and certainly one that I rewatch the most. And, I think that, it's a good thing that it is the FP I love the most - it means each competition of hers - for me - ends on a triumphant note. Bolero is sort of warm up for what is to follow.

 

[Tutto]

Well, she still lost around 3 points against what she's done with a clean program - so going for a 3A+fall is actually not advantageos - it just isn't quite the loss it could have been. And Liza is not prone to UR, which some ladies are - so I don't see a horde of ladies rushing off and doing 3As honestly. I do hope some will try, though - the 3A is virtually extinct in ladies skating at this point.

Not rushing exactly maybe but I don't see Lisa's competitors not trying to catch up with her either, if e.g. Adelina is back next season she probably would go for 4T I think she did it in practice quite consistently.
I wish for the emphasis on artistic side and quality of technical elements rather than upping technical content and a point collection type programs but it's not going to happen I guess

 

[Meoima]

Not rushing exactly maybe but I don't see Lisa's competitors not trying to catch up with her either, if e.g. Adelina is back next season she probably would go for 4T I think she did it in practice quite consistently.
I wish for the emphasis on artistic side and quality of technical elements rather than upping technical content and a point collection type programs but it's not going to happen I guess

Adelina going for 4T next season sounds even more sureal. She has just skated again after being injured like for the whole season and the only jump she has just regained is 2A... And currently she is busy with DWTS, how can she have enough time for a 4T if all of her other jumps and combos haven't been back?

 

[Crossover]

I've seen this description before here. Would this be considered an "oriental" theme? (Just asking for opinions.)

La Bionda are generally classified as one of the creators of "Italo-disco" music. Not sure exactly what specific regional sound they were going for with 'Sandstorm', though.

'Batwannis Beek' is Arabic music, or more specifically, Algerian Arabic.

I agree, I appreciate the change of pace in skating program music. Too bad about the Bolero SP though... that's one I can do without.

Well, the music mixed with the two songs sounds to me as an "oriental music", so I was instantly reminded of Indian dance, Middle East's belly dance, Arabian nights, sultan and harem while listening to it at first. In this regard, her LP dress is a perfect fit to the music that I love as well. I didn't catch an Italian mood at all from the music probably because I'm no knowledge of Italian POP music but familiar with Italian opera and canzone. I've heard of the term, Euro-disco in the lump though. India and Middle Eastern countries are geographically neighbored, so they are culturally interlaced to some extent. I'm also not kin to differentiate between Algerian Arabic culture of North Africa and the Middle East. Could this be an excuse for me to say "oriental themed music" about Liza's LP music? Here is a quote from Wikiedia.

The Orient means the East. It is a traditional designation for anything that belongs to the Eastern world or the Middle East (aka Near East) or the Far East, in relation to Europe. In English, it is largely a metonym for, and coterminous with, the Continent of Asia. In France and other countries of Western Europe, it denominates the countries of North Africa. - Orient, Wikipedia

 

[sabinfire]

Wikipedia also says "oriental" is a pejorative term in the West.

 

[Crossover]

Wikipedia also says "oriental" is a pejorative term in the West.

In the United States, not UK or other Western countries according to Wikipedia. I remember my British friend referred to the term quite a lot regarding Egypt related topics (of course the country belongs to North Africa). If you felt unhappy about the term being used on GS, I think it would be nicer for you to explain the reason in detail. I was puzzled at your reaction to my post because I didn't intend any provocation toward anyone with my post, but just wanted to know how Liza got into picking the unique music for her LP.

 

[andromache]

In the United States, not UK or other Western countries according to Wikipedia. I remember my British friend referred to the term quite a lot regarding Egypt related topics. If you felt unhappy about the term being used on GS, I think it would be nicer for you to explain the reason in detail.

I can't speak for non-Western countries, but "oriental" is considered to be a pejorative term because it is a "catch-all" term for Asian culture, when in fact Asian cultures are very diverse and can't simply be lumped together as "oriental." It was typical of colonial Westerners in the 1800s and 1900s to exoticize and demean Eastern peoples, practices, and cultures under the term "oriental." Edward Said's book entitled Orientalism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orientalism_(book)) is foundational to the understanding of "oriental" as a prejudicial term.

Basically, essentializing Asia and the Middle East as "oriental" is problematic. In posting this explanation I'm not trying to attack you or suggest you were doing anything knowingly wrong, but now you know why this word may be viewed negatively. I hope it helps!

On topic though, I'm having mixed feelings about Liza's 3A. I'd love for her to go for it and do it well, but she's who I would personally want to see win gold, so I'm nervous for her to take that risk! She's so solid in competition though, so I would trust her above any other skater to make a risky addition before Worlds.

 

[Crossover]

I can't speak for non-Western countries, but "oriental" is considered to be a pejorative term because it is a "catch-all" term for Asian culture, when in fact Asian cultures are very diverse and can't simply be lumped together as "oriental." It was typical of colonial Westerners in the 1800s and 1900s to exoticize and demean Eastern peoples, practices, and cultures under the term "oriental." Edward Said's book entitled Orientalism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orientalism_(book)) is foundational to the understanding of "oriental" as a prejudicial term.

Basically, essentializing Asia and the Middle East as "oriental" is problematic. In posting this explanation I'm not trying to attack you or suggest you were doing anything knowingly wrong, but now you know why this word may be viewed negatively. I hope it helps!.

Thank you for the detailed account on the word perhaps from a "North American view" but the political correctness also reminds me of a dilemma that I had; I didn't know what to do with referring to the people of African heritages in UK. They were not referring themselves as African-British unlike African-Americans in US. The Western cultures are also as much diverse as Asian cultures and the counterpart concept, the East is not enough because it mainly refers to "the Far East" in the English speaking world. Anyway, I'm not gonna comment on the term any more since I would not get an answer that I really need to know; Liza's journey of how to select the exotic music!

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

Interesting conversation here. I was always told that the term oriental was only offensive if you used it to describe people and that it was a proper way to describe pieces of culture such as rugs, tea, spices, music etc... I actually eat at a place named Oriental Express on a regular basis.

Back to Liza....her 3a is looking good in all the videos. :yes: She is like a perfect advert for Mishin's new book.

 

[Sandpiper]

Interesting conversation here. I was always told that the term oriental was only offensive if you used it to describe people and that it was a proper way to describe pieces of culture such as rugs, tea, spices, music etc... I actually eat at a place named Oriental Express on a regular basis.

Pretty much my feelings about this as well. As for "oriental" being offensive because it lumps all Asian cultures together... doesn't "western" do the same thing on the other end?

Anyway, back to Liza. I'm not a fan of the Bolero music (due to repetition/overuse), but I think her program is well-choreographed and she sells it. Those things tend to influence my opinion more than the music itself (unless you're skating to something unlistenable--rap/screamo medley?) Maybe in another year, when there are many strong SPs in the ladies' field, I would object more to Bolero. But this year, the only creative program was probably Alena's.

 

[sabinfire]

Pretty much my feelings about this as well. As for "oriental" being offensive because it lumps all Asian cultures together... doesn't "western" do the same thing on the other end?

The other side of "western" would be "eastern". I haven't heard of "the East" being offensive, as far as I know.

 

[invisiblespiral]

Count me into the joint Elena/Liza fanclub, and I prefer her FS to her SP....

 

[Sandpiper]

The other side of "western" would be "eastern". I haven't heard of "the East" being offensive, as far as I know.

But if the reason it's offensive is "lumping all cultures together," wouldn't that make terms like eastern/western also offensive?

Like Sam, I frequent restaurants and supermarkets with the word "Oriental" on them. Maybe it's just us immigrants being ignorant... :scratch:

 

[silverfoxes]

New feature article on Liza from Inside Skating

http://www.insideskating.net/2015/0...ns-a-golden-season-for-elizaveta-tuktamysheva

 

[sabinfire]

I was puzzled at your reaction to my post because I didn't intend any provocation toward anyone with my post, but just wanted to know how Liza got into picking the unique music for her LP.

I'm sure you didn't intend to stir anything with your question and were just asking a question. I just think describing Liza's FS music choice as "oriental" isn't particularly accurate (and a broad generalization at best). Just wanted to clarify the origins of the music, as well as specific region it comes from.

 

[solani]

I also like her LP much more than her SP, the SP seems too busy to me. It would grow on me if she would add that 3A.
I found the discussion about the term "oriental" interesting, I'm from central europe and here "oriental" isn't negative at all, quite the opposite. Also if you describe people with the term, like "she looks oriental" means circa "she looks exotic and attractive".

 

[sabinfire]

Like Sam, I frequent restaurants and supermarkets with the word "Oriental" on them. Maybe it's just us immigrants being ignorant... :scratch:

Are these restaurants and supermarkets primarily Chinese-based?

Would you consider a Middle-Eastern restaurant or Arabic supermarket to be "oriental"?

 

[Sandpiper]

Are these restaurants and supermarkets primarily Chinese-based?

Would you consider a Middle-Eastern restaurant or Arabic supermarket to be "oriental"?

I don't know if I'd consider them "oriental"...

To say "oriental" is a vague or inaccurate term to describe Liza's LP... sure, I understand that. But I don't think the term itself is offensive.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

I've never noticed the term oriental to describe anything Middle Eastern....I always thought it referred to eastern Asian culture where as Persian/Arabian were terms used to describe middle eastern cultures. I need to brush up my cultural references it seems because now I'm just confused. I don't mind the term Westerners at all but it encompasses probably the most lumping imaginable

Anyway.....

Why would Liza do a 3z-3t in the FS and not the SP?