Elvis Stojko: Looking back

[Ares]

1. Do you think like I do that he was unfairly labeled throughout his competitive career as ''not artist'' & just impressive athlete? I think that in a way he was ahead of his time ... just watching his SP from 1994 can make you realize how distinct & futuristic that program is. He was not balletic, classical or try-hard balletic which seemed to be in high regard in that time and that hurt him ... am I right? He definitely had his style and he owned it with strong command over the ice.

2. Another question: do you feel that he ''wuzrobbed'' of Gold in 1994 Olympic Games in Lillehammer? I say that his programs were much more coherent and interesting than Urmanov ones with comparable technical content / execution. (Urmanov LP was directly hideous & dull imo with lots of pausing & posing as well as lacking stamina which should weigh in my view in favour of Stojko). Moreover I regard his skating skills as stronger than Urmanov presented ones, Stojko also seemed faster. About the only better thing was that he did not pop his triple axel unlike Elvis. What a shame that Stojko did not jump quad ... as we know he had that in him.

I don't get how they deemed him as ''artistical'' with such cringeworthy way of moving And don't even get me started on his costumes :duh: I am not among those who are in ''fashion police'' but those were some real baggy monstrosities.

3. Was in that time outcry & general questioning of that result a la Nancy / Oksana argument? That sentiment and their encounter is still permeating Figure Skating forums and not only that somehow.

I can't remember as in 1994 ... I was not even 1 year old

 

[Interspectator]

Elvis was the first skater I was a fan of in the first Olympics I remember watching when I was 9. I think my siblings liked him, so I liked him too.
He was impressive on the ice. A very commanding presence and style that is still there when I look at his performances now. His style is the opposite of my favorite these days (Yuzu) but the impression I was left with of figure skating was positive enough to bring me back as a fan later on.

 

[Ares]

Elvis was the first skater I was a fan of in the first Olympics I remember watching when I was 9. I think my siblings liked him, so I liked him too.
He was impressive on the ice. A very commanding presence and style that is still there when I look at his performances now. His style is the opposite of my favorite these days (Yuzu) but the impression I was left with of figure skating was positive enough to bring me back as a fan later on.

Elvis' skating in Nagano is one my first Figure Skating memories

Interviews with him give that nice impression of guy-next-door

 

[andromache]

Elvis mastered his own style in no small part due to the fact that he was drawing on inspiration from martial arts. IMO, skaters are never going to invent their own forms of movement, but drawing from a well-established tradition, whether it is ballet or modern dance or martial arts, gives you so much to work with in terms of developing your own repertoire of coherent movements/postures/expressions that will wind up making their way into your choreography / programs.

The problems faced by the decidedly non-balletic men and struggles to develop "artistry" are because they aren't finding an established tradition of movement to work for them.

 

[Skater Boy]

I think arguments could easily be made that Elvis won the 1994 olympic gold; perhaps in fairness moreso than Nancy over Oksana. For whatever reason Elvis was not the chosen one. He was competing in an era when classical/balletics won over. However, he actually had better spins than Urmanov and jumps and stronger edges. He had great energetic footwork too. He actually had a program and he sold it. In some way the new system of scoring recognizes better the differences in styles - like I have said performance and interpretation and choreography etc really a skater should be able to score well as long as they commit to the program and sell it. It doesn't matter if you like classical or western or martial artist - did they do it well. Did they perform the heck out of it and Elvis had that intensity. Now he might lose some GOE's for lackign pointed feet but he had power and speed and decent edges and that would earn points. He didn't pose and take rests like a lot of skaters and he did have a connection with the audience - all things that score well. For some reason his style because it was not traditional or classical just did not get the credit. Sometime it is just the way it is. I mean the judging world seemed to accepts the uniqueness of the Duchesnay's but Elvis didn't seem to get the same credit.

 

[Ares]

Elvis mastered his own style in no small part due to the fact that he was drawing on inspiration from martial arts. IMO, skaters are never going to invent their own forms of movement, but drawing from a well-established tradition, whether it is ballet or modern dance or martial arts, gives you so much to work with in terms of developing your own repertoire of coherent movements/postures/expressions that will wind up making their way into your choreography / programs.

The problems faced by the decidedly non-balletic men and struggles to develop "artistry" are because they aren't finding an established tradition of movement to work for them.

I agree with your points. He definitively did not belong to pretty-pretty category but it didn't mean he was on a hiding to nothing, on the opposite he was much better than they gave him credit for. He was just himself and I found it compelling, his skating I find much more pleasant looking than f.e Urmanov (he had ginormous triple axel though, kudos for that). There is though impression that he was dismissed as he couldn't fit that desired mould that was supposed to be ''artistic''. I think his skating was more impressive regarding presentation / carriage / musicality than most of those ''artists'' of that time.

His SP from Lillehammer is interesting to watch. You have some silly fluff before with Stojko boxing

https://youtu.be/-vTeGIrNtjs?t=2m55s

In a way Elvis skating foreshadows Brian Joubert style Here is boxing too


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_jlxKFaALtw (2007 Worlds SP)

 

[4everchan]

elvis>>>>>>>>>>urmanov

i will put it this way.... my personal preference would usually make me favour urmanov..but he wasn't the best in that style... elvis was so much more convincing

 

[TGee]

Think I should drop in a few points about Elvis that may not be as known outside of Canada.

He had a lot of legacy to differentiate himself from as I read it.

[1] He came from a family with classical performing artists --- his dad was a tenor...

[2] He didn't as a teen feel an artistic connection to the balletic style, and other dance styles that might have suited him were too associated [in Canada] with Kurt Browning.

So while I have total respect for his technical ability, including skating skills, his decision to reach to his martial arts training for choreography, and his incredible work ethic, I always thought that he had more to give artistically.

...And in the last few years, since he's returned to Canada from Mexico, we've found out that Elvis can sing, and dance, and act....He was according to the critics the best thing, in his role as Billy Flynn, in a touring production of the musical Chicago that opened on Broadway a couple of years ago.

Now, reflecting on some of the comments and analysis in this thread, I really am wondering how it might have been different for Elvis under the IJS code of points system, and whether he would have been able to stay in competition longer and continue to develop his expression....

 

[noskates]

Agree with TGee. First of all I think Kurt Browning, and his inimitable style- was a VERY hard act for anyone to follow. I never thought of Elvis as a 6.0 skater and think the current system would have been more favorable to his style of skating. But given the times, I think he amassed a good lot of awards and attention for his skating. As far as being artistic, one only needs to watch Sound of Silence from last year's SOI to see that there was/is more to the man than his jumps and his martial arts style. Anyone who can hold their own artistically with Jeff Buttle and Patrick Chan is remarkable. Elvis is the first skater. Kind of makes you wonder what he would have been like with different choreography....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XePf7eTqVY4

 

[Interspectator]

Agree with TGee. First of all I think Kurt Browning, and his inimitable style- was a VERY hard act for anyone to follow. I never thought of Elvis as a 6.0 skater and think the current system would have been more favorable to his style of skating. But given the times, I think he amassed a good lot of awards and attention for his skating. As far as being artistic, one only needs to watch Sound of Silence from last year's SOI to see that there was/is more to the man than his jumps and his martial arts style. Anyone who can hold their own artistically with Jeff Buttle and Patrick Chan is remarkable. Elvis is the first skater. Kind of makes you wonder what he would have been like with different choreography....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XePf7eTqVY4

What a great routine! Loved it.

 

[4everchan]

Agree with TGee. First of all I think Kurt Browning, and his inimitable style- was a VERY hard act for anyone to follow. I never thought of Elvis as a 6.0 skater and think the current system would have been more favorable to his style of skating. But given the times, I think he amassed a good lot of awards and attention for his skating. As far as being artistic, one only needs to watch Sound of Silence from last year's SOI to see that there was/is more to the man than his jumps and his martial arts style. Anyone who can hold their own artistically with Jeff Buttle and Patrick Chan is remarkable. Elvis is the first skater. Kind of makes you wonder what he would have been like with different choreography....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XePf7eTqVY4

omg... 3 canadian world champions yet.. such different skaters

1) i think elvis with COP would have done better. yet, is it possible really for him to do better?? he did very well... i wouldn't go as far as saying he was constantly denied titles.. maybe one...

2) seeing the 3 guys together.. oh my.... elvis is still a powerhouse... jeff's refined body lines and patrick is grace, force and beauty....

3 world champions to cherish 4ever... ( i missed elladj in here.. because this song is so his... )

 

[noskates]

Glad everyone liked it -wish I could have seen it in person. I DID see the US version with Ryan Bradley, Adam Rippon and Jeremy Abbott. It was beautiful and well done but not the same impact as the Canadians - mostly because it was such a treat to see those particular 3 men skating together. It was kind of different but have to say the 3 Americans did a very credible job. I never think of Ryan as a "dramatic" skater but he held his own, too.

 

[brens78]

I just looked at both 94 SP and FS and Elvis should have won for sure, more fire and passion, Umanov's FS was just basic...

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Urmanov did what he needed to win, but Elvis was still robbed of Lillehammer gold, IMO. As mentioned, Urmanov's FS just seemed basic and safe, and not really noteworthy (although I also don't think it was a super egregious win, given Elvis himself wasn't perfect). What surprised me was all the 3rd place ordinals Elvis got in his FS (Kurt . The Russian judge, of course, placed him 5th in the FS.

Like many technical skaters, even ones today, Elvis having groundbreaking tech content immediately put him in the "non-artistic" camp, but he definitely had his own style, even if it was contrary to "typical" figure skating norms. He really brought out the athletic/rock and roll side of the sport, instead of the usual classical music with histrionics. He was an original, and I don't think he was always credited for that. Elvis' overall skating wasn't particularly great (save for footwork sequences), and he was more of a quick footed skater than an edge-skater. I wish he held some of his positions longer and had more extension, but I also know that might have compromised who he truly was... you could put a paper bag on his head, and you'd know exactly who was skating. He's essentially Will Ferrell's character in Blades of Glory... the anti-frilly skater.


At the time, the Nancy story was in full throttle so I don't think people cared as much about the other disciplines. I also thought Nancy should have won overall, but Oksana wasn't terrible as some people who were upset with her win professed her to be. IMO, Oksana performed better than Nancy, but I also appreciated Nancy's 3+3 combo, which Oksana wouldn't even dare to attempt... though Oksana's SP was iconic. Urmanov's FS in comparison to Elvis was just not iconic or particularly memorable.

 

[brens78]

Like the Yuna and Adelina debate from Sochi that keeps being mentioned on here, the Nancy and Oksana one doesn't seem to go away over 20 years later either lol!

 

[gmyers]

An argument against Russians was their posing and rests and overdrama. With Stojko - after having refreshed my memory- critics were attacking his "karate chops and kicks." So if the main opponent of a Russian didn't have smooth connected skating but "chops and kicks" the argument was lost! Judges were open to posing and drama -had experience with it- but not chops and kicks. Plus if stojko's was going to be a jumper where was his quad? It's perfectly understandable that after popping his triple axel he wanted to make sure all the judges saw the triple axel and not go immediately to trying the quad. So because there was no technical advancement with stojko's skate it was just the norm with chops and kicks.

Petrenko, Boitano, Browning were the huge overwhelming favorites. They all bombed the sp. so you have this classical routine Russian school skater delivering almost everything cleanly!

 

[pohatta]

If only Elvis had done a quad... but didn't anyone miss Urmanov's quad? He was probably the first European skater to do quads regularly in 1991-92. in Albertville he planned to do both 4t and 4s but replaced his 4s with a 3s-2loop.

 

[Skater Boy]

Even without the quad at the 1994 olympics Elvis was a worthy winner. But life isn't always fair. I just think forget the jumps but the skating - spins, footwork favored Elvis. But it really doesn't matter what I or the rest ofus think - it was that judging panel. Sort of in a different vein. It is kind of odd how the Canadian men get so close and then they fall just short - Orser twice, Browning always had disasatrous olypics well the last two, Elvis two silvers, Buttle bronze and Chan silver. All worthy gold medallists if they could have just had some luck or got it together on the big night.

 

[brens78]

A Canadian man will win the title one year, who knows, maybe Patrick will have an epic burst of luck next year

 

[GGFan]

I just rewatched both programs and it was a fun exercise. In 1994 I was so devastated by Kurt, Brian, and Viktor that I was less than excited about the rest of the competition. I remember back then hating Alexei's gloves in the short (I still do!) and thinking that his skating involved a lot of fluff. My stance has softened.

I do think Elvis was unfairly labeled. By some standards he was not artistically gifted: his body shape did not result in good lines, he did not stretch out his moves, he was bent over on his landings, etc. But I think artistry is more than that. I thought there several moments in that the free where he was really committed to the music and the movement. The program was moving in that sense. The short was also very musical, even if I hate the music.

Having said that I cannot sign on to the "he wuz robbed" argument. There was nothing that Elvis did that won him that gold via knock out. At best it was a split decision within the margin of error. Alexei had his own issues: hunched over, high shoulders, etc. but he also did some lovely things in his programs, had some good landings, flair, etc that there was enough to crown him the winner.

Ultimately, I still think there were more complete skaters in the field than either Elvis or Alexei, but they didn't perform on the day.