Evgenia Tarasova & Vladimir Morozov

anonymoose_au

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Please stop the negative thought... They were better ... so they are progressing ... I don't think is something to do with there technic (or coachs ... I liked Max in there team) .. they didn't change that much to lose the technic .. the problem is in there mind .. in the SP it seems lack of concentration ...or maybe a mental defeat for some reason...maybe because of the lost in the olympics and then worlds ... they weren't ready for that kind of results... and them you have all juniors rasing stars in seniors and you have to deal with that ( a strange situation for them ... they were the 4-3 team , then 2, then 1 but they never had a direct real competition in any phase)

True, true. I wonder if the news media in Russia is less than kind to them? I mean obviously they don't read Golden Skate, but if similar comments have been made there, it can't do much for their confidence.

Speaking of... Did you notice they were the faces of the event so to speak? I mean their photo was on the passes and everything! Which, when you think about it is a bit awkward. Other skaters have had this too - like Yuzu and. Zhenya Med, but still, talk about pressure!

Or maybe people are trying to change to much of who they are and they are lost ... maybe they were more happy skating to candyman ( with the yellow costume ... and yes I liked there program ...) .. who knows ... but I think by nationals they will be ready ( maybe is better not going to GPF)

OMG, I liked Candyman too! (Sometimes I thought I was the only one!) Yeah, the song wasn't the best, but I did so love the polkadot theme.

I also enjoyed their other "different" programs, like the Lord of the Dance and the Electro swing and even I Feel Good :laugh:

Like a lot of people found it difficult to believe T/M enjoyed such music, but maybe they do? They look very serious, but perhaps they like letting their hair down with perky music choices?

Although of course their current programs for this season are really good, but perhaps they can try something different again next year.

I did read on Golden Skate's Insta that in their post-FS interview they mentioned having a plan. Perhaps they're learning some new stuff already?

Unfortunately, I've realised that time zones and work tomorrow mean I can't stay up to watch Gala. I look forward to looking up Zhenya and Vovan's Ex first thing tomorrow.
 

aka_gerbil

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True, true. I wonder if the news media in Russia is less than kind to them? I mean obviously they don't read Golden Skate, but if similar comments have been made there, it can't do much for their confidence.

From what I've seen, excluding interviews with Marina and T/M themselves, the only person who has come to T/M's defense in the media is Alexei Urmanov, saying he thinks they'll be strong later in the season. Everything else has been B/K are the new leaders of pairs skating, they have the ability/personality that T/M don't that will allow them to beat Sui/Han, the whole country is in love with B/K because for the first time in a long time there's a charming team at the top for people to love. Talk about how there's been a void in Russian pairs skating for so long now that B/K are filling. I haven't seen anything/anyone except Urmanov express any belief that T/M can or will rally back from this Fall.

Even after T/M won the GPF in 2016 and then Euros in 2017, they didn't get this kind of praise and support. I was thinking back to when Trankov shared that the fed and coaches didn't believe in T/M going into the 16-17 season. For whatever reason, despite all the talent, they've just never gotten the support other teams have.


I also enjoyed their other "different" programs, like the Lord of the Dance and the Electro swing and even I Feel Good :laugh:

Like a lot of people found it difficult to believe T/M enjoyed such music, but maybe they do? They look very serious, but perhaps they like letting their hair down with perky music choices?

I loved all of those programs too. I was also thinking about last night how happy T/M seemed to be to skate the programs that general fandom called weird or goofy. I also get mad when people say they can't do upbeat/perky. "Glam" was really what put them on the map. It was delightful and upbeat. I do think there might be something to so many people are trying to change them that they've lost touch with who they are and why they like to skate. In their early years, they just seemed to skate everything with this sweetly honest sincerity and conviction.

In ice dance lately, I've noticed a lot of emphasis on the popularity or personality of the skaters/teams carrying more weight than the technical ability when teams are discussed by fans and in the press. Not a lot of room for the introverts of skating right now, it seems. With the advent of the ISU awards and the criteria set for the "most valuable skater" award, I suspect the ISU values the skaters with "likeable personalities" more (whatever that means--this introvert thinks T/M are perfectly likeable/loveable even if general skating fandom doesn't seem to feel that way) and would prefer fan favorites to also be the ones winning.

I know I sound negative, but I swear it comes from a place of worry and concern for T/M. I think they are the most talented team in the world, but I also think they are undervalued and am worried that the politics are going to break them. Some of my favorite ice dance teams have had to fight this kind of battle in their careers. A couple of them managed to claw back, but some of them didn't.

I had a lot of high hopes for them after the test skates. It's just really hard to watch what looked like was going to be their year go the way it has.
 

anonymoose_au

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From what I've seen, excluding interviews with Marina and T/M themselves, the only person who has come to T/M's defense in the media is Alexei Urmanov, saying he thinks they'll be strong later in the season. Everything else has been B/K are the new leaders of pairs skating, they have the ability/personality that T/M don't that will allow them to beat Sui/Han, the whole country is in love with B/K because for the first time in a long time there's a charming team at the top for people to love. Talk about how there's been a void in Russian pairs skating for so long now that B/K are filling. I haven't seen anything/anyone except Urmanov express any belief that T/M can or will rally back from this Fall.

Aww that's nice of Urmanov to say! He would have skated alongside Katia and Sergei so he surely knows teams with great potential when he sees it :)

Even after T/M won the GPF in 2016 and then Euros in 2017, they didn't get this kind of praise and support. I was thinking back to when Trankov shared that the fed and coaches didn't believe in T/M going into the 16-17 season. For whatever reason, despite all the talent, they've just never gotten the support other teams have.

Really? That's terrible! I know most fans preferred Ksenia and Feodor, but come on Russian Fed... Although was that the season they lost Russian Nats to Ksenia and Feodor despite having a quad twist and just generally (in my eyes at least) having cleaner skates? Because I was so annoyed about that! Sasha and Dima have quality elements, so you can't really complain about any GOEs they get.

I loved all of those programs too. I was also thinking about last night how happy T/M seemed to be to skate the programs that general fandom called weird or goofy. I also get mad when people say they can't do upbeat/perky. "Glam" was really what put them on the map. It was delightful and upbeat.

Indeed! I actually became a T/M fan because of their Music program. Yes, it was silly and a bit daggy, but it was so engaging, maybe because it wasn't what you'd expect. A Russian pair with classic lines and looks doing an 80s ballad? I thought it was awesome!

I do think there might be something to so many people are trying to change them that they've lost touch with who they are and why they like to skate. In their early years, they just seemed to skate everything with this sweetly honest sincerity and conviction.

Very true too! I decided to rewatch some of my favourite T/M programs. The British Eurosport guys loved Lord of the Dance and Glam. As did I. I've mentioned earlier in this thread that because T/M look so serious, heavy classic music can sort of...drag them down a bit. Although I did love Rachmaninoff, but I think it might have been too much for an FS. I did notice Canadian commentators in one of the videos I watched disagreed, so perhaps it's just me.

In ice dance lately, I've noticed a lot of emphasis on the popularity or personality of the skaters/teams carrying more weight than the technical ability when teams are discussed by fans and in the press. Not a lot of room for the introverts of skating right now, it seems. With the advent of the ISU awards and the criteria set for the "most valuable skater" award, I suspect the ISU values the skaters with "likeable personalities" more (whatever that means--this introvert thinks T/M are perfectly likeable/loveable even if general skating fandom doesn't seem to feel that way) and would prefer fan favorites to also be the ones winning.

More agreement, I like Sasha and Dima, of course and their enthusiasm, but I also like T/M and don't find their personalities off-putting. It's untrue to say T/M never smile, I've seen them smile and it makes me smile too. Vladimir just happens to have resting serious face which is charming in its own way.

I know I sound negative, but I swear it comes from a place of worry and concern for T/M. I think they are the most talented team in the world, but I also think they are undervalued and am worried that the politics are going to break them. Some of my favorite ice dance teams have had to fight this kind of battle in their careers. A couple of them managed to claw back, but some of them didn't.

Ice dance is indeed a confusing discipline...most of my favorites don't seem to get to the podium for reasons I can't see! But then I don't know the rules of ID so...

I had a lot of high hopes for them after the test skates. It's just really hard to watch what looked like was going to be their year go the way it has.

Yes me too! They were so good there! I'm hoping they can recapture that and show the crowds their magic :) They have shown some if it in their Gala programs.
 

aka_gerbil

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Although was that the season they lost Russian Nats to Ksenia and Feodor despite having a quad twist and just generally (in my eyes at least) having cleaner skates? Because I was so annoyed about that!

Yes, same season.

Very true too! I decided to rewatch some of my favourite T/M programs. The British Eurosport guys loved Lord of the Dance and Glam. As did I. I've mentioned earlier in this thread that because T/M look so serious, heavy classic music can sort of...drag them down a bit. Although I did love Rachmaninoff, but I think it might have been too much for an FS. I did notice Canadian commentators in one of the videos I watched disagreed, so perhaps it's just me.

I also like T/M and don't find their personalities off-putting. It's untrue to say T/M never smile, I've seen them smile and it makes me smile too. Vladimir just happens to have resting serious face which is charming in its own way.

Rach was gorgeous, but I agree maybe a bit much for a full FS.

I'm in the US, and they so often get called "cool" or "icy" by those doing commentary. I don't think that's who T/M are at all as people. They both have adorable smiles, and it makes me happy to when they do smile.

I saw another Russian article today where Max Marinin said he thinks the judges are bored with T/M now (and B/K are clearly the leaders of Russian pairs now and the ones who can win medals in 2022). I know what I've seen in the Russian press with so many writing them off, and I wonder what all they've heard and been told behind the scenes. It made me think again of the idea that maybe they are trying too hard to be what other people say they should be in an attempt to win and are losing themselves in the process. It feels like when they compete, all their spark and joy for skating are gone.


Yes me too! They were so good there! I'm hoping they can recapture that and show the crowds their magic :) They have shown some if it in their Gala programs.

They do seem to come back to life in their gala skates.

I really don't know what to expect out of them skating-wise the rest of the season. For them, I hope they can skate clean and skate the programs in a way that lives up to the promise of test skates. I don't think it's going to matter politically---there is just too much damage at this point. Missing the GPF is pretty catastrophic in terms of winning anything the rest of the season. No pair who had two GP events and failed to qualify for the final has ever gone on to medal at worlds in that season. I don't think even lights out skates at nationals will get them that title now--the fed is going to back the team that won both of their events and made the GPF. Between no GPF and losing the national title, that knocks them out of being able to win Euros. J/C will be back, and I have no idea what to predict with them, but hopefully T/M will be able to grab silver or at least bronze at Euros. Then, worlds, and I've already touched on that. Unless they manage something never done before, they'll be off the podium this season. It's not a great place to be two years out from the Olympics. But maybe if they skate clean here on out this season, they can be on firm enough footing to start next season that they can start to rebuild their PCS scores over next season to maybe put them into contention for silver or bronze in Beijing. (I think S/H winning Beijing is pretty set in stone, like P/C winning dance is.)
 

anonymoose_au

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Yes, same season.

Hooray my memory didn't fail me, this is a miracle. :p

Rach was gorgeous, but I agree maybe a bit much for a full FS.

Yes! I'm sure I remember them not getting much love for their FS the season before Music, where Vovan was the conductor and Zhenya the musical note. The word boring was used a lot :(

I'm in the US, and they so often get called "cool" or "icy" by those doing commentary.

Ah yes, as a Plushy fan who enjoys watching old YouTube I know about US commentators and their need for smiling skaters. They were obsessed by the fact Plushy didn't smile...it was funny, if annoying sometimes. The British Eurosport guys were the same earlier on, but they got used to it and didn't mention it. As a rule people in Russia don't default to smiling, it's considered a bit weird to do it out on the streets. In other western countries it's considered rude not to greet people with a smile and so on.

I don't think that's who T/M are at all as people. They both have adorable smiles, and it makes me happy to when they do smile.

Indeed, I was looking on a fan Insta the other day and there was lots of photos of them smiling and having fun.

I saw another Russian article today where Max Marinin said he thinks the judges are bored with T/M now (and B/K are clearly the leaders of Russian pairs now and the ones who can win medals in 2022).

That's funny, I remember hearing people say Tatiana T and Maxim M were even more boring than Zhenya and Vovan (I know, I'm as shocked as you are :p) Does Max M have about suggestions for what Zhenya and Vovan can do?

I know what I've seen in the Russian press with so many writing them off, and I wonder what all they've heard and been told behind the scenes. It made me think again of the idea that maybe they are trying too hard to be what other people say they should be in an attempt to win and are losing themselves in the process. It feels like when they compete, all their spark and joy for skating are gone.

Yes, they do seem stressed....perhaps no longer being number one will help them? But since the pairs discipline is so strong in Russia probably not. :( But it's awful to think of T/M reading all this negative stuff...I kind of want to send them a letter of support! Let them know they have fabs who enjoy their older programs.

They do seem to come back to life in their gala skates.

I know! How charming was the ex at last season's World's. Vovan's little dance. :biggrin:

I really don't know what to expect out of them skating-wise the rest of the season. For them, I hope they can skate clean and skate the programs in a way that lives up to the promise of test skates. I don't think it's going to matter politically---there is just too much damage at this point. Missing the GPF is pretty catastrophic in terms of winning anything the rest of the season... Unless they manage something never done before, they'll be off the podium this season. It's not a great place to be two years out from the Olympics. But maybe if they skate clean here on out this season, they can be on firm enough footing to start next season that they can start to rebuild their PCS scores over next season to maybe put them into contention for silver or bronze in Beijing. (I think S/H winning Beijing is pretty set in stone, like P/C winning dance is.)

Well, that sums up what's wrong with judging in skating. Sui/Han are excellent, but 2022 is over 2 years away, no way should anyone predict a medal for them. Who knows how they'll go in 2 years time?

Well I just hope T/M keep skating, I'll miss them very much if they retire.
 

aka_gerbil

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That's funny, I remember hearing people say Tatiana T and Maxim M were even more boring than Zhenya and Vovan (I know, I'm as shocked as you are :p) Does Max M have about suggestions for what Zhenya and Vovan can do?

That's the general consensus I have picked up on fan opinion of the two T/M's.

He did not offer any suggestions or advice.


Yes, they do seem stressed....perhaps no longer being number one will help them? But since the pairs discipline is so strong in Russia probably not. :( But it's awful to think of T/M reading all this negative stuff...I kind of want to send them a letter of support! Let them know they have fabs who enjoy their older programs.

I think for a team that has been struggling with self-confidence for the past couple of years, losing the number one spot to a younger team is not going to be helpful. T/M know this game and what this means, and I don't think instead of taking pressure off, it's going to add on. They want to be world and Olympic champions and now they have a new hurdle of trying to regain Russia #1. It's a step backwards instead of moving forwards like they had hoped.

I worry too about what they may be hearing inside skating. If this stuff is being talked about in the press, it's being discussed within skating too.

If you want to send something, I know of other fans who have mailed cards and letters to the rink that their favorites were training at.


I know! How charming was the ex at last season's World's. Vovan's little dance. :biggrin:

I loved that program so much and thought it was a wonderful example of how really great they are at putting on a show, etc. They both seemed to love the program too. I'd hoped they'd do it this fall, but I suppose they got tired of it after doing it on tour last spring.

Well, that sums up what's wrong with judging in skating. Sui/Han are excellent, but 2022 is over 2 years away, no way should anyone predict a medal for them. Who knows how they'll go in 2 years time?

I hate that reputation and momentum carry so much weight right now. There is a lot of confusion about what PCS is supposed to be. It gets called "the artistic mark"--but that's not what it is. At its heart, PCS is another technical mark. A lot of things evaluated under the technical mark under 6.0 are under PCS now. It's a mark that should be as intrinsic to a single outing of a program as the base value TES is. However, in practice, it's getting used a lot as a reputation/popularity score. Instead of reflecting a particular performance, what you did 3 performances ago...how you skated last season... all gets factored in. A couple of bad competitions like T/M have had eats at that, and now they have to build it back up. Instead of only what happened on the ice that day mattering, it becomes of issue of how you've been skating over time. So, you have to rack up the great skates over the season, over the quad, to have a good enough reputation for the biggest events that you have a chance to win. It's almost like these skaters are having to campaign ahead of time for nationals, Euros/4CC, Worlds, and Olympics like they're running for office.

I read a blurb in the Russian coverage this week in an interview with Maxim Kovtun. He indicated that that the judges are also looking at skaters social media, how they look, how they communicate. I probably shouldn't have been surprised, but those things have nothing to do with how one skates and judges should not be taking that stuff into account.

Tarasova and Morozov - a couple who also need to be given time?
- Here again, the role of moving, lapping to the new coach, the method of work plays a role. To complex elements, they added a style that had not been before. And is it important. Judges value you even outside the ice. They look at your social networks, how you look, communicate and so on. If you are a significant figure, then this plays a role.

Well I just hope T/M keep skating, I'll miss them very much if they retire.

They have the talent to win worlds and the OGM. It's what they've said they want. I don't think they're here to play for random silver and bronze medals. They didn't move across the ocean for that. I just worry that even if they can start skating clean again that, they won't get the political backing/support that they will also need to win. I do have moments of wondering if they can't get the support they need to get what they want, if they might be happier doing something like skating in Averbukh's shows (or pursuing other interests outside of skating) than continuing to compete. As has been pointed out to me, those are things they'll have to decide for themselves though.
 

anonymoose_au

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That's the general consensus I have picked up on fan opinion of the two T/M's.

It's seems...I'm not sure what the word it's not ironic...sad? that two teams with the same initials are both seen that way.

He did not offer any suggestions or advice.

Well thanks for nothing Max M, that brings nothing to the conversation and it's pretty backhanded, after all he has an Olympic and gold medal. So being boring didn't hurt him any. :(


I think for a team that has been struggling with self-confidence for the past couple of years, losing the number one spot to a younger team is not going to be helpful. T/M know this game and what this means, and I don't think instead of taking pressure off, it's going to add on. They want to be world and Olympic champions and now they have a new hurdle of trying to regain Russia #1. It's a step backwards instead of moving forwards like they had hoped.

I thought so... This is not a good season for me...all my favourites are struggling and everywhere I look it seems people are happy about it.

If you want to send something, I know of other fans who have mailed cards and letters to the rink that their favorites were training at.

That is an idea, maybe I'll try that.

I loved that program so much and thought it was a wonderful example of how really great they are at putting on a show, etc. They both seemed to love the program too. I'd hoped they'd do it this fall, but I suppose they got tired of it after doing it on tour last spring.

I should check out the shows on YouTube, I only saw it once!

I hate that reputation and momentum carry so much weight right now. There is a lot of confusion about what PCS is supposed to be. It gets called "the artistic mark"--but that's not what it is. At its heart, PCS is another technical mark. A lot of things evaluated under the technical mark under 6.0 are under PCS now. It's a mark that should be as intrinsic to a single outing of a program as the base value TES is. However, in practice, it's getting used a lot as a reputation/popularity score. Instead of reflecting a particular performance, what you did 3 performances ago...how you skated last season... all gets factored in. A couple of bad competitions like T/M have had eats at that, and now they have to build it back up.

The thing is... That seems only true for some skaters. Alina and Zhenya last year for example, they had bad skates, but their PCS never took a hit. Others like Masha S and Sofia S have a couple of bad outings and suddenly their PCS drops like a stone - like it probably should, but when it only happens to some then it's not right.

Instead of only what happened on the ice that day mattering, it becomes of issue of how you've been skating over time. So, you have to rack up the great skates over the season, over the quad, to have a good enough reputation for the biggest events that you have a chance to win. It's almost like these skaters are having to campaign ahead of time for nationals, Euros/4CC, Worlds, and Olympics like they're running for office.

Exactly! Then they say you can compare competitions (which is why there's no official WRs in skating), if that's so why should the competition before affect you in the competition you're currently in. People trash Plushy's PCS, but the guy was consistent in his competitions.

I read a blurb in the Russian coverage this week in an interview with Maxim Kovtun. He indicated that that the judges are also looking at skaters social media, how they look, how they communicate. I probably shouldn't have been surprised, but those things have nothing to do with how one skates and judges should not be taking that stuff into account.

Oh well that's just peachy. Vovan rarely posts, Zhenya as well (although she likes stuff a lot). Which is smart if you ask me, you can get in all sorts of trouble using social media, just ask Nastya Gubanova.

They have the talent to win worlds and the OGM. It's what they've said they want. I don't think they're here to play for random silver and bronze medals. They didn't move across the ocean for that. I just worry that even if they can start skating clean again that, they won't get the political backing/support that they will also need to win.

Too true :( and the Russian Figure Skating Fed can be so cruel...they way they've treated skaters like Arthur Gachinsky, Sergei V and others is testament to how underhanded they can be.

I do have moments of wondering if they can't get the support they need to get what they want, if they might be happier doing something like skating in Averbukh's shows (or pursuing other interests outside of skating) than continuing to compete. As has been pointed out to me, those are things they'll have to decide for themselves though.

And that's another thing, I keep seeing comments/jokes about how Zhenya should find another partner, because Vovan's last name is Morozov and Aliona S and Tatiana V only found success after dumping their Morozov. I don't think that's funny. :(

This is depressing...I hope the NHK Gala can cheer me up.
 

madforskating

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It's seems...I'm not sure what the word it's not ironic...sad? that two teams with the same initials are both seen that way.



Well thanks for nothing Max M, that brings nothing to the conversation and it's pretty backhanded, after all he has an Olympic and gold medal. So being boring didn't hurt him any. :(




I thought so... This is not a good season for me...all my favourites are struggling and everywhere I look it seems people are happy about it.



That is an idea, maybe I'll try that.



I should check out the shows on YouTube, I only saw it once!



The thing is... That seems only true for some skaters. Alina and Zhenya last year for example, they had bad skates, but their PCS never took a hit. Others like Masha S and Sofia S have a couple of bad outings and suddenly their PCS drops like a stone - like it probably should, but when it only happens to some then it's not right.



Exactly! Then they say you can compare competitions (which is why there's no official WRs in skating), if that's so why should the competition before affect you in the competition you're currently in. People trash Plushy's PCS, but the guy was consistent in his competitions.



Oh well that's just peachy. Vovan rarely posts, Zhenya as well (although she likes stuff a lot). Which is smart if you ask me, you can get in all sorts of trouble using social media, just ask Nastya Gubanova.



Too true :( and the Russian Figure Skating Fed can be so cruel...they way they've treated skaters like Arthur Gachinsky, Sergei V and others is testament to how underhanded they can be.



And that's another thing, I keep seeing comments/jokes about how Zhenya should find another partner, because Vovan's last name is Morozov and Aliona S and Tatiana V only found success after dumping their Morozov. I don't think that's funny. :(

This is depressing...I hope the NHK Gala can cheer me up.

That’s ridiculous! Vladimir is one of the best pair skaters in the world; who else would Zhenya go to? Alexei Rogonov? Vlad has his bad days like the rest of us, but I really don’t see anyone else in Russia who would be a better fit. Personally, I saw great improvement in T/M at Rostelecom Cup.
 

Artemisa

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I don't think not getting to the GPF will affect them much .. is more time to work on the programs... I think the only situation that can hert them is for some reason boikova and Dima beats S/H ... them I think they will be in a little bit of trouble ..
 

aka_gerbil

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I don't think not getting to the GPF will affect them much .. is more time to work on the programs... I think the only situation that can hert them is for some reason boikova and Dima beats S/H ... them I think they will be in a little bit of trouble ..

Between history (with no team having failed to qualify for the gpf in a non-Olympic year ever having gone on to make the world podium that season) and what I've read in the Russian press (granted, I'm not a speaker and reading through google translate), I think they're already in trouble. Everything I have seen in the Russian press on the issue is saying that B/K are now the #1 team. I wouldn't go as far as one article I saw that said that T/M are now the fourth best pair in Russia, but there is a consensus that being beaten by B/K twice and failing to make the GPF that they're already not Russia #1. I know I'm repeating myself, but just from what I've seen in skating over the years, I have a hard time believing that even if T/M are clean, they're going to be allowed to win nationals because it sounds like B/K are getting all the backing now while T/M are being written off.

And that's another thing, I keep seeing comments/jokes about how Zhenya should find another partner, because Vovan's last name is Morozov and Aliona S and Tatiana V only found success after dumping their Morozov. I don't think that's funny. :(

That’s ridiculous! Vladimir is one of the best pair skaters in the world; who else would Zhenya go to? Alexei Rogonov? Vlad has his bad days like the rest of us, but I really don’t see anyone else in Russia who would be a better fit. Personally, I saw great improvement in T/M at Rostelecom Cup.

I've seen those comments and jokes too. Wasn't there a rumor at one point that Mozer wanted to split them?

It's ridiculous to say things like that. It was the same Morozov that Aliona and Tatiana V. dropped, so maybe it was that he was the specific problem. Aliona didn't even when her gold with Bruno until after she'd tried three unsuccessful times with Robin to win the OGM. At any rate, I think T/M are perfectly suited to each other, and at this point, I don't think Evgenia would consider skating with anyone else (and Vladimir likewise).

I thought so... This is not a good season for me...all my favourites are struggling and everywhere I look it seems people are happy about it.

:ghug:

It was not a great GP series. My favorite three ice dance teams all fared pretty well, but skating fandom is actively rooting for 2/3's of them to fail because they don't like their programs. I'm not emotionally invested in singles, but am annoyed that the quads carry so much weight compared to skating skills and the other components and elements. Of course, for me, T/M's woes just left me gutted.


I should check out the shows on YouTube, I only saw it once!

I watched the fancams of their performances at different stops as they came up. It is definitely worth pulling them up.


The thing is... That seems only true for some skaters. Alina and Zhenya last year for example, they had bad skates, but their PCS never took a hit. Others like Masha S and Sofia S have a couple of bad outings and suddenly their PCS drops like a stone - like it probably should, but when it only happens to some then it's not right.

You are right about that. Different rules for different skaters, it seems. It is not fair. I just want everyone to be treated the same.


Oh well that's just peachy. Vovan rarely posts, Zhenya as well (although she likes stuff a lot). Which is smart if you ask me, you can get in all sorts of trouble using social media, just ask Nastya Gubanova.

T/M seem to have pretty good heads on their shoulders and are full-grown adults, so I never worry either one would say or post something inappropriate. I just.... this stuff should not be under consideration at all by the judges. Skaters shouldn't also have to worry about crafting some sort of online presence or persona to try to impress the judges. The only thing that should matter is what happens on the ice.
 

anonymoose_au

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aka_gerbil

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He posted from Ft. Myers, which is right next to Estero. I’m sure he’s there to see T/M. I feel like he’s what they need right now.

I think he is a far better coach and did a way better job with t/m than anyone gives him credit for.
 

Artemisa

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This also cheers me up a bit. I hope he'll visit Zhenya and Vovan. I think he was a good coach! :) I certainly liked seeing him in the KnC and watching from the boards.

I guess he and Tatiana V can make lots more money at shows, but I hope one day he does consider coaching again. :)

I agree. ... maybe he is there to gives them confidence ... who knows.
 

anonymoose_au

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I was (carefully) browsing the Figure Skating Universe forum and a user there posted a link to this big long article from Marina about T/M!

https://m.sport.business-gazeta.ru/article/248299/

Google Translate

11/27/2019
FIGURE SKATING
Tarasova and Morozov with the new coach have three defeats. But do not rush to conclusions
The couple misses the Grand Prix finals, but its progress is obvious.

Russian couple Evgeny Tarasova and Vladimir Morozov changed their lives dramatically this offseason: they moved to the USA to Marina Zueva , changed the style of their programs and decided to restart their careers.

However, for the first time in three years , skaters will miss the Grand Prix finals . Tarasova and Morozov became the third at the stage in Canada and the second in Russia - they did not have one point to get to Turin, where the final will be held.

At the same time, neither Zueva, nor Vladimir with Eugenia see the tragedy in the unsuccessful start of the season. As a coach told BUSINESS Online after the Grand Prix stage in Moscow, Tarasova and Morozova have long-term plans for cooperation - with the Olympics as their ultimate goal.

Restructuring is a complex and lengthy process. Falling results are an inevitable step in this process.

CHANGE OF COACH OF TARASOVA AND MOROZOV - NEED

For the first time, Tarasov and Morozov thought about changing their coach after a failure at the Olympics in Pyeongchang. They claimed victory, but failed the free program and remained fourth. The need to look for a coach did not even arise on their initiative: Nina Moser , with whom the couple worked throughout her career, decided to leave the coaching practice and switched to administrative work .

The new coach for Vladimir and Eugenia was Maxim Trankov , who only two years ago spoke at the World Cup and for whom coaching was not a priority, Maxim directly said in an interview that he was much more interested in shows and television projects financially.

All the main starts of the season - the Grand Prix finals, the European and World Championships - the couple lost. In order not to finally slide down, Vladimir and Eugene began to look for a new coach. We stopped at Zueva. A promising option, but unexpected. Zueva is an excellent specialist who trained a dozen Olympic champions, but for the past 20 years she has focused on working with dance duets. The last successful sports pair Zueva Ekaterina Gordeeva and Sergey Grinkov performed in the days of the USSR.

Another difficulty is the change of residence. Zueva works in Florida. Moving Tarasova and Morozov to the USA is a rare and interesting move for Russian skaters. In addition to Vladimir and Eugenia, only the junior couple in ice dancing Diana Davis with Gleb Smolkin and the loner Yevgenia Medvedeva train abroad .

The careers of Tarasova and Morozov in the media are often compared with the career of Medvedeva. They all have similar goals: restarting a career and showing a new version of themselves. Medvedeva's trainer Brian Orser has repeatedly noted that the path chosen by his student is difficult and long. The first successes should be expected at least in a year and a half. This time is needed to adapt to new conditions.

“Tarasova and Morozova are easier than Medvedeva because the former coaches Maxim Trankov and Nina Moser remained with them in the team ,” Zueva said in an interview with “BUSINESS Online” in early October. - They have not changed the group, it expanded, intensified. Of course, you need to get used to it. Before, most of the time they worked with one coach, now with them a whole team. But these are changes for the better. ”

The beginning of the season for Eugene and Vladimir is like a cold shower: a failed start in the USA, where the couple completely fell apart in the free program, an unsuccessful Grand Prix stage in Canada, when the skaters missed one of the necessary elements, and finally a rough performance in Moscow - Tarasova and Morozov managed get negative ratings even on rotations.

As a result, not a single victory in three months. At the last stage in Japan, the fate of a ticket to the finals no longer depended on Eugene and Vladimir, but on the Canadian couple Kristen Moore Towers and Michael Marinaro . They took second place and reached the final. And Tarasova and Morozov will miss him for the first time since 2016. A depressing result for the nominally first pair of the country.

COMPETITION SHARPLY INCREASED IN COUPLE SKATING

“ Of course, we have tournament tasks. And we didn’t fulfill them , ”said Zueva after the couple’s performance in the free program at the Russian Grand Prix. Skaters tore off several elements and took second place, having almost lost the chance to reach the final.

Skipping the finals by Tarasova and Morozov seems to be a serious problem if we evaluate the performance of Vladimir and Eugenia in comparison with other Russian couples. This season young couples show excellent results: yesterday's juniors win stages one after another and are constantly progressing.

The growth rate and the number of bright young couples are menacing: Tarasova and Morozov, if they do not recover, may lose their place in the team. Previously, at the domestic level, they competed with themselves, but now the situation has changed dramatically.

The leaders of the season are Alexandra Boykova and Dmitry Kozlovsky . Boykova and Kozlovsky have two unexpected victories and a direct ticket to the finals. Last year, St. Petersburg athletes were hopelessly inferior to adult couples, were unstable and did not receive high scores from judges. But they began their second season at the adult level with a series of four victories in a row. They have all the components of success: the complex technical part of the program, excellent choreography, vibrant programs and stability .

“Young Russian couples perform very well and this gives us an incentive to develop,” Tarasova said about Boykov and Kozlovsky. Tarasova and Morozov twice lost to this pair this season. Few expected yesterday's teenagers Alexander and Dmitry to impose a serious struggle on the first pair of the country, but Tamara Moskvina’s students are more confident with each start.

In addition to Boykova and Kozlovsky, Anastasia Mishina and Alexander Gallyamov reached the finals , while they spend the first adult season. In junior sports, Anastasia and Alexander won almost everything. With two victories, they began their careers at an adult level. Mishina and Gallyamov perform a parallel triple lutz: in pair skating this jump is equated to ultra-si and is performed by a few athletes.

Another finalists - Daria Pavlyuchenko and Denis Khodykin - they were fourth at last year’s Russian championship, and now they have solved the stability problem and beat the winners of the World Cup. Pavlyuchenko and Khodykin, in terms of technology, are also cooler than more experienced partners in the national team: they own a parallel triple flip and a four twist.

In such a situation, Tarasova and Morozov need to look for their trump cards. The most important advantage is experience. Eugene and Vladimir have been performing together for eight seasons and they have excellent interaction with each other. “Once Zhenya thinks about something, I already know what she wants,” says Morozov.

Competition has increased at the global level. This season, pairs from Canada and the USA show good results , Chinese couples are consistently good. Therefore, even the level of last year no longer allows Eugenia and Vladimir to compete for prizes in major competitions. A qualitative leap forward is needed.

PAIR CHANGED WORKOUT PLAN AND PASSES ADAPTATION

Before the start of the Grand Prix series, Zueva said that the first season for the couple will be difficult and familiarizing. Marina Olegovna confirmed this idea even after the stage in Moscow. “Right now, you should not wait for the results. The guys get used to new conditions, new skating. And it takes time, ”she explains the reasons for the failures.

At the same time, Zueva admits that in the first half of the season, her skaters could not perform as required from them. “As athletes, they must decide the goals set for the season. The performance at the Grand Prix was unsuccessful, ”said Zueva, when the couple still retained the theoretical chances of reaching the final. “I understood that this could happen.” Their mistakes are also my mistakes. Together we overcome this path. But now they need to go further, even though through local failures, but to become stronger in the end. ”

According to Zueva, the main reason for the unsuccessful results at the start of the season is a change in the training plan . This year, Tarasova and Morozov’s programs of a completely different property and quality, they have a lot of new approaches, transitions and complex interactions. And to run these programs without errors takes time.

An example is a new approach to rotation. “We have chosen very complex and unusual rotations. Both judges and spectators will appreciate them, but the performance should be perfect and synchronized. Such rotations require no less concentration than surges or jumps, ”said Zueva. It was the complicated approaches to the rotations that led to the error on them in the short program at the Russian Grand Prix . Athletes for the first time in their careers try jumping approaches to an element, and during rotation they change their position several times, move from one skate to another. This is very appreciated by the judges, but at times increases the risk of mistakes.

Work on rotations, the search for new approaches, departures and other small choreographic elements is part of Zueva’s general concept of changing the image of a couple. The coach wants to fully realize the potential of the athletes and re-introduce them to the public. For this, she chose two bright and unlike each other programs. The directors were ex-students of Zueva.

Moris Ravel, a short program under the modern arrangement of the Bolero , was put to them by the prize-winner of the European Championship in ice dancing, Italian Massimo Scali , arbitrary to the music of Antonio Tozzi, Olympic champion Charlie White .

Previously, the couple had the image of technical skaters, scoring on the choreography, which affected the low ratings for the components. Now Tarasova and Morozov are gaining a high second rating even when they tear down the elements.

The progress of the couple in choreography and staging is recognized by most experts. “The couple has changed a lot,” World Cup medalist Alexander Smirnov expressed his opinion in a conversation with “BUSINESS Online” . - I was very happy when I found out that they had moved to Zueva. It was now interesting to watch them. There were programs that were holistic, well thought out, and not diving from jump to jump . ”

After Pyeongchang in pair skating, they focused on working with choreography and the cleanliness of the elements. Fourth emissions and twists in order to care for the health of athletes have made unfavorable for execution. Better chances are now for couples with catchy looks. Tarasova and Morozov before this season could not boast of such.

“The requirements after the Olympics have changed,” explains Zueva. - Now a couple needs a composition, a dialogue between a man and a woman. We need images, theatrical work. ”

Tarasova and Morozov note that it is not easy for them to change the usual work plan and change the style of skiing in an already mature age. But they like the result of training with Zueva. “I hope this is visible to both the audience and the judges that everything has changed in our skating,” Tarasova said. - We train in a group where there are more dance duets, and now we are trying to pay great attention to gliding, approaches and ligaments. I think the transition to Marina Olegovna will help us take a fresh look at ourselves. ”

Zueva sees great progress in the choreography of the couple. But the process is not completed. “I really like the way they perform Bolero, they like their costumes. It’s just that you still need to work - the couple will be great, ”said the specialist. This year, the couple decided not to take risks and chose the usual lyrical image. But in the next seasons, the coach plans to put programs in other styles .

PSYCHOLOGY DOESN'T PROBLEMS IN THE COUPLE

Mistakes of the same type on simple elements suggest that the couple has mood problems. Another coach of the pair, Trankov, also hinted at the psychological reasons for the unsuccessful performances.

“ When people completely change their way of life, their training system, it would be foolish to expect quick success from them ,” TASS quoted Trankova as saying . - So far, Zhenya and Volodya are tearing down the elements and losing, but I don’t think this is a big problem - many athletes regard the Grand Prix more as a training session.

According to Trankov, it is a change of scenery that is the cause of errors in emissions and jumps. Zueva thinks otherwise. In her opinion, the guys, on the contrary, mentally became much stronger and no longer felled elements due to unnecessary excitement.

Tarasova and Morozov are training in the coastal city of Neilps in Florida. As Morozov told BUSINESS Online, at the request of Zueva, Evgenia and Vladimir go to the beach almost every day. On the skaters' Instagram there are a lot of photos by the sea and from the side it seemed that the athletes were not in training, but on vacation. But Zueva says the guys keep their concentration.


“I'm on the rink, watching them,” she replies jokingly. The guys have a fully working atmosphere. The only difference is that after work they are met by the sea breeze and the bright sun. I believe that nature should help health. The idea of ​​opening a training center in Florida came to me when I analyzed the work of coaches of other sports. ”

Of the problems that Zueva noted was the loss of riding speed . The coach requires from Tarasova and Morozov wide, but fast skiing. So far, such rentals they succeed only in training.

“Lack of speed breaks the program. When such a competition - you need to ride brighter, - Zueva scolded her athletes. - But in Florida, everything works out for them and when compared with past starts, the speed increased. Work is visible. ”

PURPOSE OF WORK WITH ZUEVA - OLYMPIC GAMES

A funny moment occurred at a press conference following the results of the stage in Moscow. Once again, Tarasova and Morozova were reminded of the words of Orser that after changing the coach, adaptation in the new conditions takes at least a year and a half, and asked how long they were ready to wait for success. “We are ready not to wait, this is an incorrect word, but to work. There are still two years before the Olympic Games, ”said Morozov.

At this time, Zueva took a microphone from a journalist and said from the audience: “Vova, we have six years.” The coach hinted that Eugene and Vladimir can speak not only at the Beijing Olympics, but also in Italy in 2026. “ Wait six years?” No, I’m so afraid, I won’t wait. By this time I will turn gray, ”Morozov joked.

When the jokes stopped, Zueva added that next season the couple will be competitive and will be able to fight for victory at the World Cup. But the main goal is the Olympic Games.

According to Zueva, in the first year you should not wait for the results, but you can see the progress: “Already, it makes sense to wait for a new one in skating. Wait for improvement, work on yourself. The guys decided on a very serious step and much has changed in their career. This increases the responsibility of both them and me. ”

Zuev deviates from specific forecasts on the time when and how the adaptation will take place: “There is a preparation plan, but how it will be implemented, I can only say after this season. There is no magic word or gesture that you can tell the skater, and he stops making mistakes. There is the magic of time, patience and efficiency. ”

“Still, skipping the finale is not a tragedy,” the specialist noted. - I do not think that the results of this season are decisive . We will prepare for the championship of Russia - now more time for preparation. We do not plan to go to other tournaments. ”

In this regard, Zueva is right. Previously, Eugene and Vladimir successfully performed at the stages of the Grand Prix, won at challengers and other tournaments of the third grade. But at the most important starts they constantly lacked the strength and skill to take first place. Now they have a different tactic: to concentrate on preparing for the World Cup and the Olympics.

In terms of sports results, Tarasova and Morozov failed. Skipping the Grand Prix finals is a serious reputation loss and a signal for the judges that they can be deleted from the world top.

But if you look at the future, then Tarasova and Morozova do not need local victories. They have all the titles except victory at the World Cup and OI. Initially, it was clear that a trip to Zueva was a big risk. The guys had two options: take a chance and try to become the best in the world or continue to stagnate and stand still. They chose a more difficult but interesting way .

RUSTAM IMAMOV
 

skylark

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:thank: for posting the translation of that article, anonymoose. :)) I really enjoyed it. I love the complexity of ideas and quotes in it ... which is why I enjoy many of the Russian interviews.
 
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