Flamenco and Riverdance | Golden Skate

Flamenco and Riverdance

ladyjane

ladyjane

Medalist
Joined
Jun 26, 2012
I'm in the mood for a bit of flamenco. I love visiting small scale flamenco performances (you know, with just a guitar player, 2 singers and 2 dancers, that kind of thing), and I also love it when skaters manage to translate the true spirit of the dance (and the song) to the ice. Very difficult to do, as flamenco can be quite static (in the sense of dancing in the same place), and is all about control of the body. That made me think of a new thread.

Anyone who's been to Granada in Spain will know about the version presented to tourists.That's not the version I'm referring to, I really like the more authentic version where you have ladies in their sixties performing the perfect dance, and, my favourite, the solo male dancers. Sometimes they're not even wearing the traditional clothing, but turn up in jeans and it's still breathtaking to watch (do watch the film 'Vengo'. The storyline is incomprehensible but the dancing is superb).

Like many of you, we'll have seen many versions on the ice. One of my favourites is Anessina and Peizerat's 2002 Olympic version. Such beautiful small movements, and seemingly static while they in reality cover loads of ice. To me, their olympic gold was won because of that wonderful, very authentic feeling, Flamenco Original dance. I also love Bruno and aljona's version which they regrettably did not show on Olympic ice because they had gone back to a former programme. Which was good and fun to watch. But I missed their flamenco, especially because of Bruno's role in it. He could have been one of those legendary solo dancers - well at least to me. Of course Aljona did a good job as always (I can't imagine a dance or style she can't do), but in this particular programme Bruno just shines.

Links:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FpC4_cp4RCk (this is a show version, but lovely).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUBSjJLfzbU

And there are more of course. I think Stephane Lambiel also did a good one. But if you're like me: any others - with links prefereably - are welcome. Please present your own favourites.

Which makes me turn to Riverdance, a form of Irish dance manay of us have learnt to admire. Now, I'm a great fan of Riverdance as well as Michael Flatley's vision of these Irish dances. And it's another type of dance that's rather difficult to transfer to the ice, as the dancers tend to stay in one place for quite long periods of time - and skaters must move around the rink. Many have tried and it didn't work. But there are quite a few examples of skates that somehow or other make a beautiful translation of the rhythm and emotion of those dances while also being good skates covering a lot of ice. The best versions I saw of that on ice were Jason Brown's long programme in 2014, and Japan's Rika Hongo's skate in 2016. And, of course, Bourne and Kraatz's beautiful long programme in 1998 (which almast got them a medal at the Olympics).

Links:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J61k2XjRryM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQlb-P7Vvkg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k7Ee3onj1QE

Of course, again, there are many more. Send on the links!
 
ladyjane said:
Which makes me turn to Riverdance, a form of Irish dance manay of us have learnt to admire. Now, I'm a great fan of Riverdance as well as Michael Flatley's vision of these Irish dances. And it's another type of dance that's rather difficult to transfer to the ice, as the dancers tend to stay in one place for quite long periods of time - and skaters must move around the rink. Many have tried and it didn't work.
Click to expand...

I did Irish dancing for years and competed at the world championships a couple times. I still teach but don't dance anymore. I feel like it's my duty to clear up any misconceptions about Irish dancing. I personally loved Jason Brown's program. It's a great program, but it doesn't really look much like Irish dancing. It's a dance form that doesn't really translate to the ice very well. Irish dancers don't stay in one place. I'm not really sure where that idea came from. Any good dancer will cover the entire stage during a dance and move fast and effortlessly. I would say the most distinguishing elements of Irish dance are that the upper body and arms stay completely still and the ankles twist during footwork. Those are two things that are pretty much impossible to achieve skating without hurting yourself. But without those things, it's hard to really make it look like Irish dancing. That being said, Irish music is great and the Riverdance music is great for skating. It's just that you can't really Irish dance on ice the way you can do a ballet or flamenco or cha cha program. As an Irish dancer though, I still really like Riverdance programs! I feel like it's pretty cool that a skater was inspired enough by irish dance or the music to use it for their program :) I remember seeing Jason's program before I started following figure skating because all my friends were posting the youtube video
Sorry for hijacking this thread for a psa on irish dancing
 
treblemakerem said:
whole post
Click to expand...

Thank you for the explanation; I found it interesting. I know nothing about Irish dance, because, despite my 95% Celtic (and at least half of that Irish) ancestry, I must confess .... I don't like Celtic music. :slink: At all. :noshake: those genes did not cross the pond with my ancestors.:laugh:

I don't much if a skater is "truly" replicating any one particular dance, as you said, how can they, they're skating. ;) I can't believe anyone here really thinks that a skater with opera music is actually performing anywhere near what opera singers do. Skaters do not, and should not be trying to, replicate dancers.

I care about the interpretation, the passion and the commitment. So of course I loooooove :luv17: Jason's Riverdance. After a decade plus absence, Jason's Riverdance brought me back to watching skating. Which, since I can't stand the music in and of itself, is quite the testament:biggrin:
 
treblemakerem said:
I did Irish dancing for years and competed at the world championships a couple times....
Click to expand...

Nice post, treblemakerem, and nice name :)

I lived in the ID world for more than ten years and I had a hard time watching some of the early attempts of skaters doing routines to music from Riverdance. It just didn't seem to work with their feet glued to the ice most of the time. When I heard that Jason was skating to Reel Around the Sun, my first thought was, really? The Riverdance fad was dying down some at that time and earlier routines weren't that successful. I seemed like an odd choice and I wasn't expecting to like it. But wow, Rohene's choreography for Jason was so so good that it didn't matter to me that it lacked ID elements. The footwork was so lively and full of elements that made it look like he was dancing. Unlike other routines, the skates didn't appear to be as much of an impediment. Such a wonderful fun program.
 
I think some skaters have hit a little trouble with Irish dancing when they try to shoehorn in enough nods to Irish dancing moves (or what they think are Irish dancing moves) to give the programme what some might consider "authenticity". I'd love to see someone skating to Irish or Celtic music and not feel the need to put that heavy handed stamp on the programme but to do their own thing. I think the music itself would do a lot of the talking so to speak and I'd love to see a more freestyle approach.

PS Irish people REALLY love it when Irish dancing as a whole is referred to as "Riverdancing" :sarcasm:
 
treblemakerem said:
I did Irish dancing for years and competed at the world championships a couple times. I still teach but don't dance anymore. I feel like it's my duty to clear up any misconceptions about Irish dancing. I personally loved Jason Brown's program. It's a great program, but it doesn't really look much like Irish dancing. It's a dance form that doesn't really translate to the ice very well. Irish dancers don't stay in one place. I'm not really sure where that idea came from. Any good dancer will cover the entire stage during a dance and move fast and effortlessly. I would say the most distinguishing elements of Irish dance are that the upper body and arms stay completely still and the ankles twist during footwork. Those are two things that are pretty much impossible to achieve skating without hurting yourself. But without those things, it's hard to really make it look like Irish dancing. That being said, Irish music is great and the Riverdance music is great for skating. It's just that you can't really Irish dance on ice the way you can do a ballet or flamenco or cha cha program. As an Irish dancer though, I still really like Riverdance programs! I feel like it's pretty cool that a skater was inspired enough by irish dance or the music to use it for their program :) I remember seeing Jason's program before I started following figure skating because all my friends were posting the youtube video
Sorry for hijacking this thread for a psa on irish dancing
Click to expand...

Not hijacking, giving information. Always good.
 
I really loved Satoko Miyahara's Firedance SP (Riverdance). It's just that to me it looks like a fusion choreo in between Irish dance and flamenco. But it was a beautiful program, loved it!
All the Men SP created by Antonio Najarro are my favorites. He worked with different skaters with very different overall body move aesthetics and yet he managed to give them the sense of Spanish dance. I think that's amazing. One of my favorite creations was Brian Joubert SP "Once Upon A Time in Mexico" (flamenco). It had a fantastic choreo which was so unusual for Brian that he even complained how intricate it was and how much energy it demanded from him. By the end of that season the most beautiful moves were ditched, obviously, but the original idea you can see in this video was absolutely great. And he had one of the most amazing costumes for this program in his entire career as well.
Olympic OD Farrucas (flamenco) from Tessa Virtue and Scott Moir is my all-time flamenco programs favorites.
Last season FD from Laurence Fournier-Beaudry and Nikolaj Sorensen Spanish Caravan (flamenco) is sort of a hidden gem. It was sensual and passionate, I loved it right away.
 
treblemakerem said:
I did Irish dancing for years and competed at the world championships a couple times. I still teach but don't dance anymore. I feel like it's my duty to clear up any misconceptions about Irish dancing. I personally loved Jason Brown's program. It's a great program, but it doesn't really look much like Irish dancing. It's a dance form that doesn't really translate to the ice very well. Irish dancers don't stay in one place. I'm not really sure where that idea came from. Any good dancer will cover the entire stage during a dance and move fast and effortlessly. I would say the most distinguishing elements of Irish dance are that the upper body and arms stay completely still and the ankles twist during footwork. Those are two things that are pretty much impossible to achieve skating without hurting yourself. But without those things, it's hard to really make it look like Irish dancing. That being said, Irish music is great and the Riverdance music is great for skating. It's just that you can't really Irish dance on ice the way you can do a ballet or flamenco or cha cha program. As an Irish dancer though, I still really like Riverdance programs! I feel like it's pretty cool that a skater was inspired enough by irish dance or the music to use it for their program :) I remember seeing Jason's program before I started following figure skating because all my friends were posting the youtube video
Sorry for hijacking this thread for a psa on irish dancing
Click to expand...

THis was really interesting. It made me go back and look at Brown's program without the music and it is pretty much impossible to tell that it is Irish dancing. This surprised me because I have always liked the program and love Irish dancing, but somehow never really thought about it. I think Bourne and Kraatz's does hold up to that test though. What do you think? Thank you for giving me food for thought.
PS I am a bit biased about Bourne and Kraatz's program because I absolutely loved it in an Olympics where I didn't like many of the ice dances (except Krylova Ovsiannikov's) so I have watched it so many times that I may be reading into it
 
VIETgrlTerifa said:
I'm not the biggest fan of Krylova/Ovysiannikov but their 1995 Flamenco FD is my favorite FD of theirs:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWyAcwngqas
Click to expand...

I'm not a fan either, but this and Carmen FDs were just amazing - Krylova's looks, intensity of character really made Flamenco authentic, passionate and vibrant on ice, in these two programs she really looked like a woman possessed:laugh: (which I really love when it feels sincere and in line with musical theme of the program). In flamenco FD I love how her body movement and expression accentuated rhythm changes and transitions in-and-out for guitar parts (the one at the beginning was fantastic, she was able to fill the transition with the body movement that felt like another note).

Personally, I just loved Sara Hurtado/Adria Diaz's Paso Doble SD in 2014/15 season with so strong Flamenco influence/feel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5LKxDfbR_RA. The poses, upper body tightness, rhythmic perfection in movement and those hands - they really felt natural in this dance, authentic to their Spanish roots.

Another one to which I come back very often is Pechalat/Bourzat Flamenco OD from 2007/08 season, choreographed by Antonio Najarro: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZPRencOHCw. I love everything about that dance - costumes, prop play, poses, partnering, musicality, chemistry; non-touching step sequence, first stationary lift and transition to spin were simply fantastic.
 
There was a Disson show a number of years ago (2011) called "Riverdance on Ice," featuring the (touring ?) Riverdance company & several pro skaters. Some of the performances are probably on Youtube. :biggrin:

In the meantime here's a link to the opening performance in the show: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ztq067_KrBg
 
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