Four Continents: question on title

[Mathman]

I think it's primarily cultural and historical. Russia is 23% in Europe and 77% in Asia by area, but by population it is 80% in europe. Israelis consider themselves to have more in common with Europe than with Asia, and especially in figure skating where the sport is dominated by immigrants with Russian roots.

Is Turkey in Europe or in Asia? Trukey is a member of NATO -- the North Atlantic Treaty Organization -- despite being 6000 kilometers from the North Atlantic ocean.

 

[4everchan]

If you split 4CC in sections, it will just become a big challenger event... and in some disciplines, not enough nations will be entered to give the skaters ranking points.

 

[ladyjane]

Ahem...silly question but I read NL somewhere (sorry haven't read all that stuff) and my country was not meant? It is everywhere else.

 

[RUKen]

Where do they draw the north-south line in Asia as to which countries' skaters compete in Europeans and which are included in 4CC? Obviously it's not going to be in a straight line down a single longitude, but how is it decided? On a map, the dividing line seems to run down approximately between Israel (Europeans) and Kazakhstan (4CC), but maybe it's decided more by convenience of travel. Or are there political reasons?

The countries that are considered European are those west of the Ural Mountains and north of the Mediterranean and Black Seas. Georgia, Azerbaijan, and Armenia are usually European, and their athletes compete in European championships. Israel has been allowed to compete in the ISU European Championships because there had been no 4CCs prior to 1999, and because its population in the mid-20th Century was largely made up of people who had migrated from Europe. The western edge of Turkey is in Europe, but Turkey is considered Asian because most of its population lives south of the Black Sea.

 

[NanaPat]

Ahem...silly question but I read NL somewhere (sorry haven't read all that stuff) and my country was not meant? It is everywhere else.

It also stands for the Canadian province of Newfoundland and Labrador. It's not the only confusing one; CA stands for both California and Canada. And there are two Ontario, CAs; one the province in Canada and the other a town/city/airport in California.

Newfoundland's name was changed to add Labrador in 2001 and shortly after the abbreviation was changed from NF to NL.

 

[Diana Delafield]

The countries that are considered European are those west of the Ural Mountains and north of the Mediterranean and Black Seas. Georgia, Azerbaijan, and Armenia are usually European, and their athletes compete in European championships. Israel has been allowed to compete in the ISU European Championships because there had been no 4CCs prior to 1999, and because its population in the mid-20th Century was largely made up of people who had migrated from Europe. The western edge of Turkey is in Europe, but Turkey is considered Asian because most of its population lives south of the Black Sea.

A simple and clear explanation,

 

[Mathman]

Ahem...silly question but I read NL somewhere (sorry haven't read all that stuff) and my country was not meant? It is everywhere else.

The Wikipedia entry on "transcontinental nations" lists the Netherlands as partly in Europe, partly in North America, and partly in South America, because some Caribbean islands are formally included as being part pf the Kingdom of the Netherlands, sort of.

Likewise Denmark is "partly in North America" because of Greenland.

 

[skatingguy]

The Wikipedia entry on "transcontinental nations" lists the Netherlands as partly in Europe, partly in North America, and partly in South America, because some Caribbean islands are formally included as being part pf the Kingdom of the Netherlands, sort off.

Likewise Denmark is "partly in North America" because of Greenland.

France as well because of territories in the Americas.

 

[Diana Delafield]

Ahem...silly question but I read NL somewhere (sorry haven't read all that stuff) and my country was not meant? It is everywhere else.

Postal abbreviation for the province of "Newfoundland and Labrador", as I'm sure you knew really, but just tossing this in here in case anyone else was wondering. It was a dominion of its own (sort of) in the British Empire until 1949, when it joined Canada and became the tenth province. This got into the discussion of skating competitions as a question of whether pre-1949 it could have sent its own skaters as a separate country, supposing it had any competitive skaters, which it didn't at the time. This went waaay off topic

 

[jorge2912]

Australia is a continent, so the 4CC name is still appropriate.

A kindly correction Australia is a country, Oceania is a continent.

And here are the participants of the first Antarctic National Championships queueing up to get onto the ice for their Group Warm-Up:

Is a photo taken in the most Austral ice rink in the world? I mean Punta Arenas ice rink? Is cute the photo..

In 2018 there was South American Championship in Ecuador that competed Chile, Argentina,Peru, Brazil , Ecuador ..

Two links with the news from that time.

Chile logra cuatro nuevas medallas en el Sudamericano de Patinaje Artístico sobre Hielo

Este sábado se disputó la segunda jornada del Sudamericano de Patinaje Artístico sobre Hielo, el cual se realiza en Quito, Ecuador, con la delegación chilena sumando cuatro nuevas medallas. En la categoría Begginer 3 Children, Valentina Concha, del Club Bajocero de Maipú, se quedó con la medalla...

eldeportero.cl

Chile logra cuatro nuevas medallas en el Sudamericano de Patinaje Artístico sobre Hielo

Este sábado se disputó la segunda jornada del Sudamericano de Patinaje Artístico sobre Hielo, el cual se realiza en Quito, Ecuador, con la delegación chilena sumando cuatro nuevas medallas. En la categoría Begginer 3 Children, Valentina Concha, del Club Bajocero de Maipú, se quedó con la medalla...

eldeportero.cl

From 2010 to 2019 there was South American Championships later with pandemic and other things out seems like forgot organize it again.

I wonder why don't organize South American Championship again?

 

[RUKen]

A kindly correction Australia is a country, Oceania is a continent.

I respectfully disagree with this statement. Oceania is a region that is now understood to include Australia, New Zealand, New Guinea, Melanesia, Micronesia, and Polynesia. The islands of New Zealand, Melanesia, Micronesia, and Polynesia are not on the continental shelf of Australia. The continent of Australia includes the country of Australia and the island of New Guinea, along with some smaller islands in between. The continent has some other names, such as Sahul and Meganesia, but those names are unfamiliar to most people (as they were to me before I began to look into this). My statement may have been imprecise, but it was not incorrect.

 

[CaroLiza_fan]

I respectfully disagree with this statement. Oceania is a region that is now understood to include Australia, New Zealand, New Guinea, Melanesia, Micronesia, and Polynesia.

No it's not. Oceania is a country composed of "the Americas, the Atlantic Islands, including the British Isles, Australasia and the southern portion of Africa", and is ruled by Big Brother.

Oceania in black:

Sorry, I couldn't resist.

Back to the real world, as opposed to George Orwell's "1984" world.

I respectfully disagree with this statement. Oceania is a region that is now understood to include Australia, New Zealand, New Guinea, Melanesia, Micronesia, and Polynesia. The islands of New Zealand, Melanesia, Micronesia, and Polynesia are not on the continental shelf of Australia. The continent of Australia includes the country of Australia and the island of New Guinea, along with some smaller islands in between. The continent has some other names, such as Sahul and Meganesia, but those names are unfamiliar to most people (as they were to me before I began to look into this). My statement may have been imprecise, but it was not incorrect.

In all seriousness, when I was at school in the 1990's / 2000's, we were taught to use the term "Australasia" for the continent that includes Australia. And the rhyme we were taught to remember the continents was:

Eat​	Apples​	Apples​	Apples​	Never​	Sweets​	Apples​
Europe​	Africa​	Antarctica​	Asia​	North America​	South America​	Australasia​

I was always under the impression that the terms "Australasia" and "Oceania" were inter-changable. I admit that, like you, I had not come across the two other terms you found. But they appear to be names for the old geological continents that the the region we are talking about was once part of. (The only palaeocontinents I knew about before today were Pangaea, Gondwana and Laurasia).

By the way, I do follow the rhyme. (I don't eat sweets. I have 2 apples a day from Monday to Saturday, and then on Sunday I have 2 pieces of shortbread instead).

CaroLiza_fan

 

[Mathman]

What an interesting thread.

Is/are North and South American one continent (the IOC approves) or two? Did they become two continents when the Panama Canal was dug to separate them.

Is there any geological reason to regard Europe and Asia as two separate continents? I am pretty sure that this is just a man-made cultural/historical convention.

India is jammed into the bottom of Eurasia, but the indian continental shelf is not the continental shelf of Eurasia. India crashed into Eurasia 50 million years ago and pushed up the Himalayan Mountains between them -- surely a more "continent defining landmark," geologically speaking, than the border betwee Europe and Asia.

 

[Mathman]

No it's not. Oceania is a country composed of "the Americas, the Atlantic Islands, including the British Isles, Australasia and the southern portion of Africa", and is ruled by Big Brother...

Back to the real world, as opposed to George Orwell's "1984" world.

I can name three world leaders/would-be leaders who are doing their utmost to achieve Orwell's vision.

Anyway, in the six continents model (north and South America = one continent) the mnemonic would be Eat Apples Apples Apples Apples Apples. Then figure skating's Four Continents could be re-named "Five Apples." Here is their new tiger logo:

https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/61AVnxaUoML._AC_UF1000,1000_QL80_.jpg

 

[RUKen]

In all seriousness, when I was at school in the 1990's / 2000's, we were taught to use the term "Australasia" for the continent that includes Australia. And the rhyme we were taught to remember the continents was:

Eat​	Apples​	Apples​	Apples​	Never​	Sweets​	Apples​
Europe​	Africa​	Antarctica​	Asia​	North America​	South America​	Australasia​

I was always under the impression that the terms "Australasia" and "Oceania" were inter-changable. I admit that, like you, I had not come across the two other terms you found. But they appear to be names for the old geological continents that the the region we are talking about was once part of. (The only palaeocontinents I knew about before today were Pangaea, Gondwana and Laurasia).

By the way, I do follow the rhyme.

CaroLiza_fan

According to the Wikipedia entry, Australasia is now defined to include New Zealand, which is not part of the Australian continent. Oceania includes the smaller Pacific islands in addition to New Zealand. I hadn't realized there were so many sub-divisions of the lands in the Pacific.

 

[RUKen]

What an interesting thread.

Is/are North and South American one continent (the IOC approves) or two? Did they become two continents when the Panama Canal was dug to separate them.

Is there any geological reason to regard Europe and Asia as two separate continents? I am pretty sure that this is just a man-made cultural/historical convention.

India is jammed into the bottom of Eurasia, but the indian continental shelf is not the continental shelf of Eurasia. India crashed into Eurasia 50 million years ago and pushed up the Himalayan Mountains between them -- surely a more "continent defining landmark," geologically speaking, than the border betwee Europe and Asia.

I think that combining North and South America into one continent was a creation of the Euro-centric International Olympic Committee. Even before the Panama Canal had been dug, the connection between the continents was similar in breadth to the connection between Africa and Asia before the Suez Canal had been dug.

There is no geological reason to consider Europe and Asia as separate continents. Europe is a region of the continent of Eurasia. You are correct that the designation of Europe as a continent is a cultural convention (that is now outdated).

 

[CaroLiza_fan]

What an interesting thread.

Is/are North and South American one continent (the IOC approves) or two? Did they become two continents when the Panama Canal was dug to separate them.

They were definitely separate continents long before the Panama Canal came along. When the original single continent Pangaea split into two, what is now North America became part of Laurasia (along with Europe and Asia), while what is now South America became part of Gondwana (along with Africa, Antarctica, Australasia, the Indian sub-continent, and the Arabian Peninsula). But after those continents split up, South America and North America crashed into each other.

Is there any geological reason to regard Europe and Asia as two separate continents? I am pretty sure that this is just a man-made cultural/historical convention.

It's purely an artificial division. Europe and Asia have always been a single land mass.

IIndia is jammed into the bottom of Eurasia, but the indian continental shelf is not the continental shelf of Eurasia. India crashed into Eurasia 50 million years ago and pushed up the Himalayan Mountains between them -- surely a more "continent defining landmark," geologically speaking, than the border betwee Europe and Asia.

I would also agree with you on this one.

The thing is, the Indian sub-continent is not the only sub-continent. The Arabian Peninsula is a sub-continent as well. And the eastern part of Africa is in the process of breaking away from the rest of the continent to form another sub-continent.

If you give one of them full continent status, you have to give them all full continent status.

When you think of continents, you think of vast land masses. Are the sub-continents big enough to be thought of in the same way as the traditional continents? Probably not.

This was the same dilemma that was faced in space when people complained that Pluto was classed as a planet, yet there were moons and other objects in the Solar System that were bigger than Pluto. So, rather than promoting all these objects and making it impossible to fit them all into a rhyme, they demoted poor Pluto and put it and all these other objects into a new category, drawf planet. Which messed up the rhyme I was taught at school:

My​	Very​	Energetic​	Mother​	Just​	Served​	Us​	Nine​	Pizzas​
Mercury​	Venus​	Earth​	Mars​	Jupiter​	Saturn​	Uranus​	Neptune​	Pluto​

Sorry, @elektra blue, we weren't told whether or not there was any pineapple on the pizzas. But, it doesn't really matter now.

Anyway, coming back down to Earth, rather than promoting sub-continents, what should be done is to increase awareness of them. Make them as well known as the traditional continents.

And make a rhyme for them!

CaroLiza_fan